The Official Salomon S/Lab SHIFT MNC Thread -AMA

[Kopi_Red]

He'll probably ride the chair in tour mode so everyone can see that he actually does use the toe pins.

When I do that with my Duke's people yell at me to tell me my bindings are broken.

[Jimi_Lee]

Adding a higher riser seems like a no brainer. Added versatility at very little expense (~20 g?).

Personally there are times that using the high-riser is more efficient. I am thinking of spring days on Hood, Adams, Helen's where the corn hasn't warmed up and putting in a low-angle track means minimal sking-to-snow contact. I am also thinking about pre-work runs with 2000' vert.

[Jimi_Lee]

For all those wondering who the market for this binding is, it is me (and probably a lot of others).

I have never had the cash to own a suite of of skis and boots and until 2 years ago, I never owned more than 1 pair of skis at a time. With a short exception, that pair has always had a tech binding on them and I just accepted the higher injury risk and occasionally unpredictable release. Frame bindings just sucked to much for touring and I never wanted to give up touring. So I used tech bindings in resorts for lift service.

Honestly, the release also gave me qualms in the BC. It hasn't always been a perfect powder day top-to-bottom and I wondered what would happen if I ran tips into rocks/roots/trees while racing down a narrow and icy single-track.

This binding is exactly what I want. Tech on the way up and predictable damp release on the way down.

[LeeLau]

But think of how cool he'll look in the lift line.

He'll probably ride the chair in tour mode so everyone can see that he actually does use the toe pins.

Very clever Cody. You have mined the knowledge and preferences of first-mover purchasers via this obscure internet backwater.

Salomon. You would do well with a SHIFT line of accessories. May I suggest:

- anodized carabiners with "colourways" coded to ice screws.
- Little wee backpacks with integrated harnesses where the ice-screws can hang strategically to bang against one's junk
- Add-on ice-axes in team colours
- Add other random logos like Pin-tech system to the backpack

Promote that through influencer instagrams such as

https://www.instagram.com/gearwhore_lee/

https://www.instagram.com/youdidnotsleepthere/

https://www.instagram.com/fakeboobs/

[skiSilent_skiDeep]

1. The reason we went with 10° at the max height is mainly because of Greg Hill. Because once you follow a guy that can do 2 million vertical feet in a year and realize he does it on a 12° skin track, you realize that if you're on a 17° riser, you're touring too steep.

might be a no true scotsman fallacy here.

watch "2.5 Million"
https://www.tetongravity.com/video/s...et-in-one-year

fast foward to 17:35-17:45, 18:02. Aaron Rice likes to lay skin track at 17° on his way to sending 2.5x10^6 vert-ft/yr

so, one could infer that in order to make the jump from Greg Hill's 2.0-mil to Aaron Rice's 2.5-mil, one would need the aid of a 17° post.

equivocation aside, i know a few casual users who appreciate the high post when climbing established steeper-than-need-be Wasatch skinners in their beefy-tour boots or any boot with <45° rom.

[toastybroski]

might be a no true scotsman fallacy here.

watch "2.5 Million"
https://www.tetongravity.com/video/s...et-in-one-year

fast foward to 17:35-17:45, 18:02. Aaron Rice likes to lay skin track at 17° on his way to sending 2.5x10^6 vert-ft/yr

so, one could infer that in order to make the jump from Greg Hill's 2.0-mil to Aaron Rice's 2.5-mil, one would need the aid of a 17° post.

equivocation aside, i know a few casual users who appreciate the high post when climbing established steeper-than-need-be Wasatch skinners in their beefy-tour boots or any boot with <45° rom.

Stoked to see Aaron on here. I can't even imagine the amount of effort it would take to get that feat. I know he is sponsored by marker so I think he usually sticks to kingpins?

[mall walker]

I think almost nobody would say "the high riser is never useful," but rather "it is generally most efficient to skin at such an angle that the higher is irrelevant," and/or possibly "for me personally (and how often I use the high riser) it is not worth the weight tradeoff to have a binding with the high riser."

I still think this binding should have one...

I followed that Aaron Rice thing a lot, probably some mags know him? if I am correct his kit was something like:

with Voile: Vectors w/Speed Turns, V8s with Kingpins
with DPS: Tour1 Cassiar 95s w/Speed Turns, L124s with Kingpins
Vulcans
and I think some Voile WSPs + Aliens for the rare light days?

that fucker hikes quick and is a badass

[anotherVTskibum]

Especially since ~75% of these things will never get used to go uphill.

FTFY.

I'm psyched for these. One of the areas that hasn't been pointed out is that for people who work on skis—patrollers, coaches, etc.—Dyanfiddling at an inopportune time can be a big issue. If you're trying to get back into your skis after loading a patient in three feet of snow, the patient is already getting hypothermic, and your pins have iced up, you've got issues (and not just getting stuck dealing with a patient on a pow day). Having a step-in alpine binding that can convert to a tech touring binding suddenly means that you don't have to choose frame bindings for a pair of skis that you're mostly going to use with the heel locked down but want to occasionally tour on, or for sled-accessed skiing where being able to skin out in the event of a mechanical issue is an important consideration.

[TahoeJ]

might be a no true scotsman fallacy here.

watch "2.5 Million"
https://www.tetongravity.com/video/s...et-in-one-year

fast foward to 17:35-17:45, 18:02. Aaron Rice likes to lay skin track at 17° on his way to sending 2.5x10^6 vert-ft/yr

so, one could infer that in order to make the jump from Greg Hill's 2.0-mil to Aaron Rice's 2.5-mil, one would need the aid of a 17° post.

equivocation aside, i know a few casual users who appreciate the high post when climbing established steeper-than-need-be Wasatch skinners in their beefy-tour boots or any boot with <45° rom.

Damnit! I'm planning to skin 3 million feet so clearly I'm gonna need a 20 degree riser! No time to waste fucking around on some mellow pussy skin track. Let's fix this, Cody. ;-)

[PNWbrit]

I still think this binding should have one...

Yep

Far and away the best argument for the high lifter has been made several times. Trail breaking in deep snow.

[jackstraw]

FTFY.

I'm psyched for these. One of the areas that hasn't been pointed out is that for people who work on skis—patrollers, coaches, etc.—Dyanfiddling at an inopportune time can be a big issue. If you're trying to get back into your skis after loading a patient in three feet of snow, the patient is already getting hypothermic, and your pins have iced up, you've got issues (and not just getting stuck dealing with a patient on a pow day). Having a step-in alpine binding that can convert to a tech touring binding suddenly means that you don't have to choose frame bindings for a pair of skis that you're mostly going to use with the heel locked down but want to occasionally tour on, or for sled-accessed skiing where being able to skin out in the event of a mechanical issue is an important consideration.

Patrol or coach at a resort in dynafits?

[TripleT]

don't think this has been answered yet....

I would assume the mounting pattern is aligned so that your boot center line is "centered" when in ski mode. This means that in tour mode, your boot center line is now forward of center some amount.
1. how much is tour mode in front of ski mode? more than a cm?
2. does this affect skinning? i.e. you now have extra tail...kick turns harder?

I kinda doubt the difference amounts to much in terms of on the snow skinning feel, but I wonder...

[N1CK.]

I believe the toe moves 20mm forward in tour mode, as was stated earlier in this thread or in one of the videos.

[PNWbrit]

you now have extra tail...kick turns harder?

It's a further assault on those that like to set skin track above 12 degees

kinda doubt the difference amounts to much

Yep it's only 20 mm..

[TahoeJ]

Kingpin is 20mm forward too and you can't really tell any difference. It's fine.

[adrenalated]

Kingpin is 20mm forward too and you can't really tell any difference. It's fine.

Uhhh doesn't the heel move on the Kingpin, not the toe?

[NW_SKIER]

Uhhh doesn't the heel move on the Kingpin, not the toe?

Yes. Lol

[TahoeJ]

Uhhh doesn't the heel move on the Kingpin, not the toe?

Yeah, I misremembered (gimme a break, I'm sitting here with the stomach flu and a little out of it). Anyway, point stands that 20mm here or there isn't going to make a big difference when it comes to skinning. Most people can barely tell the difference on the downhill moving a binding that much.

[SupreChicken]

Yeah, I misremembered (gimme a break, I'm sitting here with the stomach flu and a little out of it). Anyway, point stands that 20mm here or there isn't going to make a big difference when it comes to skinning. Most people can barely tell the difference on the downhill moving a binding that much.

Agreed. I also think CAST has more than a 20mm difference between skinning position and skiing position.

[anotherVTskibum]

Patrol or coach at a resort in dynafits?

One of my friends on patrol here recently was going through the dilemma about new bindings on a pair of skis that she wanted to work on but also be able to tour on (she's not as much of a quiver whore as most of us are, so no dedicated touring setup). She has tech-compatible boots already and is well aware of how much better tech bindings tour, but she wasn't willing to deal with having to put on tech bindings under time pressure, so she'll be touring on a frame binding when she goes uphill on those skis. I'm pretty sure I have seen at least one set of Dynafit-mounted skis parked outside the patrol shack, though. She wasn't particularly concerned about bindings holding up or release/retention issues (it's not like she's dropping cliffs on them), just the step-in-Dynafiddle issue.

There's also a coach on the Montana race circuit who usually shows up at races with tech bindings. You're not going to bring more than one pair of skis to a race trip as a coach, so bringing a pair of all-mountain skis makes sense to me—you can still slip a course on them (it's not like we've got injected surfaces), but if the snow gods bestow your race weekend with three feet of fresh, you're prepared to enjoy it. I'm usually on Lhasa's for the same reason, but I've got STH's and Sollyfits on them. I've swapped Dynafits on exactly zero times, it's just easier to have a second setup—but with a convertible binding, I'd be able to reduce my quiver by a pair. Or expand in a different direction.

[Cosmic Suncloud]

I can't remember the last time I, or anyone I tour with, stepped out of their skis to remove skins.

yeah if you're for rando racing; most of the time those who think peeling skins with skis on is a thing are those you're waiting for at the top.

personal preference; i like making sure the edges and bases are completely clear of ice before dropping something fun.

[XXX-er]

There's also a coach on the Montana race circuit who usually shows up at races with tech bindings. You're not going to bring more than one pair of skis to a race trip as a coach, so bringing a pair of all-mountain skis makes sense to me—you can still slip a course on them (it's not like we've got injected surfaces), but if the snow gods bestow your race weekend with three feet of fresh, you're prepared to enjoy it. I'm usually on Lhasa's for the same reason, but I've got STH's and Sollyfits on them. I've swapped Dynafits on exactly zero times, it's just easier to have a second setup—but with a convertible binding, I'd be able to reduce my quiver by a pair. Or expand in a different direction.

I thot doing course work in dynafits would be good cuz of lighter boots with walking soles but it snowed so the boots & bindings clogged up and often I was carrying shit so I couldn't bend down to clear under the toes

I wouldn't work in tech bindings again unless I was certain it would be clear cold & no new snow but really you can just run an AT boot with a frame binding which i have done successfully so IME its easier to just give tech bindings a pass

[riff]

I’m going to second the business about these for patrolling. I used dukes forever, overlooking the downsides because a step in binding is pretty important for the reasons listed. Also, most mountains now require an employee’s setup to pass a torque test for workers comp. not happening on full tech kit.


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[anotherVTskibum]

I thot doing course work in dynafits would be good cuz of lighter boots with walking soles but it snowed so the boots & bindings clogged up and often I was carrying shit so I couldn't bend down to clear under the toes

The AT soles are actually a big drawback, too...inability to boot-ski effectively is very annoying when working on the hill. It's a trade-off I'm willing to take, seeing as my Freetours ski almost as well as a race boot and are the most comfortable ski boots I've ever owned, but I really wish they had DIN soles for boot-skiing purposes.

[doebedoe]

The AT soles are actually a big drawback, too...inability to boot-ski effectively is very annoying when working on the hill. It's a trade-off I'm willing to take, seeing as my Freetours ski almost as well as a race boot and are the most comfortable ski boots I've ever owned, but I really wish they had DIN soles for boot-skiing purposes.

This year's Freetours do have DIN soles. But they aren't compatible with the 1st year freetours.