2017 Praxis Skis Info and Resource Thread

[I've seen black diamonds!]

I have both 182 UL GPO's in flex 3 and 187 veneer GPO's in flex 4. The ability to easily switch between carve and slarve is my favorite thing about them. The two pairs behave very similarly apart from the differences one would expect. I loved an old pair of 180 BC's too, but they sometime felt washy in the tail, despite having less tail rocker and less tip-tail taper than GPO's. I think this is because the tips and tails on BC's are quite soft relative to underfoot. If you're used to the washy tails on BC's, which works great in pow and shitty, crusty snow in the backcountry, but results in a real speed limit, I can see why the GPO's might feel too locked in at times.

But I bet you'll adjust. To me the GPO's feel similar to BC's but with improved performance in all areas with only a small cost in how actively one needs to ski them.

[meter-man]

Schralph, your conditions were tough, but I suggest spending some time prepping the sticks.

Detune the fuck out of the edges as Muggydude suggests. Don't be afraid of the file. Remember, you want loose and slarvey tips and tails. Make em loose.

True-bar your base. Bring to shop. Mandatory. If not absolutely true, get em right - base grind, whatever. Makes a yuge difference. It changed my BCs and MVPs -- night and day.

Wax them thrice.

All of these will make them faster turning, smoother turning, free of grab, liquid lightning. That will make them easier to pressure smoothly and give you more power. It will make easier to turn at slow speed too. And the feathered detuning of tips and tails will keep them loose, and smoothly transitioning to locked in carves.

Commence enjoyment of GPOs!

If they are still much effective edge length or too stiff after 10 days, mount them more forward -- on the line. That will make them easier to turn and power through. My $0.02

(ETA: what boots are you using? AT?)

[LightRanger]

Schralph, in addition to what MM said, don't forget to use your pole straps properly.

[SchralphMacchio]

Same boots I've had for 7 years ... BD Methods planted in Marker Lord SPs.

Good point on the true bar as well in addition to more aggressive de-tune than I had done with my coarse stone.

I need to meet some of the local ski nerds ... the closest dude in the Orygun thread lives out in the sticks.

[snapt]

Chiming in here after my first day on custom 182 GPO's last week ... Sadly, it wasn't fun so I think I may still be looking for a playful 1-ski quiver, soft enough for a runt-sized skier, for resort soft snow and traveling.

I think now I'm basically looking for a fatter, slightly stiffer BC, since my '11-12 180 BC's are my favorite, most playful, easy to operate skis that I have ... the main issues are that I have them mounted with Dynafit Speeds so they are too light, a wee bit soft, and a bit narrow for what and how I'd like to ski in the resort. I wonder if I should just order a custom BC with +10mm and a scant touch stiffer than stock? Or should I be looking at something like a 175mm JJ 2.0 on clearance and just get-r-done?

Re: my 182 GPOs, I'm going to give them at least one more chance with an updated tune. Mounted them @ -1.1 cm due to complaints about tip dive/drag in the GPO thread. I did some light detuning around tip and tail taper, did not have time to wax so bases were dry since their original summertime build (I know, not smart, just didn't have time before maiden voyage). Snow was rime-coated thick cement "pow" that later became skier packed - so not the greatest intro, but I switched mid-day to my 180 BC's and it was way more fun so I couldn't just blame the snow.

GPO's felt like they didn't want to turn at low speeds, I felt like I had a hard time throwing them from side to side via short smear turns, seemed hard for me to find the right balance to get the pivot point, and they felt like they only "came to life" when speeding up to mach looney. I also had diverging tip issues on turn initiation which maybe means I didn't de-tune enough. I asked Keith to put stiffness softer than GPO stock but stiffer than BC stock ... and I'm worried they still came out too stiff for me (I'm a runt, 5'8" 135 lbs and a poor hack of a skier) due to more contact length on the snow than the BCs have. I haven't asked Keith if I need to wait for these to break in and soften - they have the ambrosia veneer topsheets so I wonder if that's got anything to do with the stiff feeling.

Anyways, not trying to rant too much, more looking for ideas on how to get the GPOs more dialed, and/or on other skis that are possibly more suited to my size/weight/style/intended purpose.

If you decide to offload them shoot me a PM, seriously. Been wanting to try these for years.

[grinch]

Hey Shralph, I think they need a good detuning, especially at that long tip taper as others have suggested. I had similar experiences as you initially and also with the bc. I really liked the bc’s but I think they should atleast be a 3 flex. Nice shape but too soft. 3+ for touring and 4 for the hill is my preference at 165ish. Not sure the build you have on your gpo’s but I didn’t mind my ul/carbons strictly touring but for slackcountry, if I did a lap on the hill they were a handful. New concepts I went enduro/veneer/c with d fit ssl’s. I’m putting tectons on them now because they’re too light for a 4(feels like 4+ flex). I’ll probably skip carbon in the future for slackcountry skis. If it’s just standard build with veneer and 3+ I think you can get them on the go. Love that ski. Bit more power than the bc for sure but they should slarve easily with a detune. That’s mine only hill ski now. No snow I’ll tour

[galibier_numero_un]

Hi Shralph,

Everything everyone says about truing them up, and DEFINITELY hit them with a hard de-tune.

I was seriously depressed after my first day on my 182's (Enduro/Carbon/Nylon top/flex #4) and I had given them a gentle de-tune before the first day. I'm 5'9", 165#.

I hit them HARD to the point where the sidecut ends (both tip and tail). By, hard, I mean the file at 30 to 45 degree angle - rounded edges! They didn't feel like the same ski after that, and for the better. They're now, one of my "cold dead hands" skis ;-)

Don't give up!

... Thom

[trex_9]

Anyone know when the spring custom sale is this year?

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[roQer]

The Rxs are the best skis I have ever skied, hands down. I perfectly match up with them. They inspire so much confidence. It’s a “one-ski quiver” that doesn’t give up performance anywhere. They float well, carve extremely well, slarve when you need to, pivot if you need, can link turns at mach looney on steep icey groomers, handle moguls/trees well, etc. I haven’t yet found conditions or terrain, where they dont either excel or feel very good.


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Are you suggesting RX skis better than OG Katana or your Monster 108?
Hm, interesting...

[roQer]

yes, yes he is.

I seriously doubt you’re an objective source

[waxoff]

yes, yes he is.

Amen

[east or bust]

RX is a quiver of 1

they aren't going to replace a SL ski, but god damn they do pretty much everything well

[east or bust]

detuned the tips on my PJ's pretty aggressively... they ski so much better, still think I'm going to get them fully tuned including a grind and detune as written above

[Banh Mi]

Are you suggesting RX skis better than OG Katana or your Monster 108?
Hm, interesting...

Those are all great skis, but the Rxs are more versatile. They are more nimble, and with the heavy core and #5 flex, they dont lose much in the stability department to the Monsters. Rx=Katana in terms of stability at speed. The Rx (with sharp edges) are phenomenal at holding an edge on hardpack/ice, just as planted as the Monsters and better than the full rocker Katanas. The Rx are in a different category than 191 Monster 108s/Katanas though. They are easier to ski, easier to mess around with at slow speeds and get a little jibby, better in the air and more forgiving on landings, better in bumps and trees. I have never felt so confident on skis, as I do when I’m on the Rx. My first run on them, everything just “clicked”, and I felt like “holy shit, these are amazing”. Now everytime I take them out, I feel as if I have been skiing the Rx my whole life, and feel like they were designed for specifically for my needs.

The 191 Monster 108s are better for nuking fall line at 60 mph, although the Rx can do that pretty darn well too. 191 Monsters also better at carrying speed through sticky snow and spring slush. The differentiating factor being that the Monsters weigh significantly more, and that inspires a bit more confidence at speed or in sticky snow.

Katanas offer a little more pivot-ability, which is fun sometimes. I like the Monsters and Rx better than Katanas.. Katanas are close though, as are 191 Wrens.

My layup Rx though, are about as fast as you can get without having metal. My Rx are faster than my Aever Supergoats, sitting somewhere in between the Supergoats and Monster 108s for speed capability. Supergoats aren’t as stiff up front and get some tip flutter, while the Rx dont chatter whatsoever. The tails on the Supergoats are little burlier though, whereas the Rx tails disappear when you need them too.

RX is a quiver of 1

they aren't going to replace a SL ski, but god damn they do pretty much everything well

I usually don’t like “one ski quiver” type skis, because they never really excel in certain areas, even though they can handle everything. However, the Rxs do everything so well, they excel in multiple areas. I prefer them over my 184 Head Monster 98s for easy-going days on firm snow, and they handle bumps just as well. In powder they float well, almost like katanas, albeit with a little less pivot ability. They work better in trees than 191 Wrens, and are easier to ski than the wrens everywhere, while also being more planted at speed.

The Rx is just a superbly balanced ski. It is my all time favorite.

The list:

1. Rx
2. Monster 108
3. Billy Goat/Supergoat
4. Katanas
5. 191 Wren

I am on the line on the Rx, and the tune is untouched from Praxis factory.



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[Island Bay]

Those are all great skis, but the Rxs are more versatile. They are more nimble, and with the heavy core and #5 flex, they dont lose much in the stability department to the Monsters. Rx=Katana in terms of stability at speed. The Rx (with sharp edges) are phenomenal at holding an edge on hardpack/ice, just as planted as the Monsters and better than the full rocker Katanas. The Rx are in a different category than 191 Monster 108s/Katanas though. They are easier to ski, easier to mess around with at slow speeds and get a little jibby, better in the air and more forgiving on landings, better in bumps and trees. I have never felt so confident on skis, as I do when I’m on the Rx. My first run on them, everything just “clicked”, and I felt like “holy shit, these are amazing”. Now everytime I take them out, I feel as if I have been skiing the Rx my whole life, and feel like they were designed for specifically for my needs.

The 191 Monster 108s are better for nuking fall line at 60 mph, although the Rx can do that pretty darn well too. 191 Monsters also better at carrying speed through sticky snow and spring slush. The differentiating factor being that the Monsters weigh significantly more, and that inspires a bit more confidence at speed or in sticky snow.

Katanas offer a little more pivot-ability, which is fun sometimes. I like the Monsters and Rx better than Katanas.. Katanas are close though, as are 191 Wrens.

My layup Rx though, are about as fast as you can get without having metal. My Rx are faster than my Aever Supergoats, sitting somewhere in between the Supergoats and Monster 108s for speed capability. Supergoats aren’t as stiff up front and get some tip flutter, while the Rx dont chatter whatsoever. The tails on the Supergoats are little burlier though, whereas the Rx tails disappear when you need them too.




I usually don’t like “one ski quiver” type skis, because they never really excel in certain areas, even though they can handle everything. However, the Rxs do everything so well, they excel in multiple areas. I prefer them over my 184 Head Monster 98s for easy-going days on firm snow, and they handle bumps just as well. In powder they float well, almost like katanas, albeit with a little less pivot ability. They work better in trees than 191 Wrens, and are easier to ski than the wrens everywhere, while also being more planted at speed.

The Rx is just a superbly balanced ski. It is my all time favorite.

The list:

1. Rx
2. Monster 108
3. Billy Goat/Supergoat
4. Katanas
5. 191 Wren

I am on the line on the Rx, and the tune is untouched from Praxis factory.



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That's a big call, Aevergeuse! Are you saying I should sell my MVPs, Monster 98s, and Dynastar Pro Riders, and just buy a pair of heavy core, 4+ flex RX? Possibly maybe...

[skibrd]

That's a big call, Aevergeuse! Are you saying I should sell my MVPs, Monster 98s, and Dynastar Pro Riders, and just buy a pair of heavy core, 4+ flex RX? Possibly maybe...

I'll take the Pro Riders [emoji13]

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[Island Bay]

I'll take the Pro Riders [emoji13]

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Hah, not so fast young man!

[Banh Mi]

That's a big call, Aevergeuse! Are you saying I should sell my MVPs, Monster 98s, and Dynastar Pro Riders, and just buy a pair of heavy core, 4+ flex RX? Possibly maybe...

Idk if I would go that far. MVPs seem fun and still fast, and Pro Riders are legendary. I happen to really get along with the Rx, idk who else will feel that way. I am getting a standard set with the enduro core #4, as a touring-one-ski-quiver though, that’s for sure.

The Rx has a directional comp ski feel. Something you can push the envelope of creativity with, while still handle plenty of speed and probably some big landings. It feels like a more directional blizzard gunsmoke to me(I think the MVP’s are like gunsmokes?), except the praxis feel like they have a thicker wood core, and more substance.

Make sure you get the size and flex right if you do.


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[yellofin]

detuned the tips on my PJ's pretty aggressively... they ski so much better, still think I'm going to get them fully tuned including a grind and detune as written above

Just dropped off my PJ's for a base grind a quick check with a true bar told the story of why they have skied so poorly in firm conditions.
Really not to happy about having to do this on new skis.

[Duffman]

Just dropped off my PJ's for a base grind a quick check with a true bar told the story of why they have skied so poorly in firm conditions.
Really not to happy about having to do this on new skis.

Yeah, that makes sense based on the issues you were having. As I said before , I love most things about Praxis skis, but the GPOs I got a few years ago had a horrendous tune and base flatness , while the Q I got this year is great out of the wrapper. The stock tunes and grinds are too inconsistent.

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[eskido]

That's a big call, Aevergeuse! Are you saying I should sell my MVPs, Monster 98s, and Dynastar Pro Riders, and just buy a pair of heavy core, 4+ flex RX? Possibly maybe...

....and I'll take the MVP's [emoji2]

[jmars]

It’s funny there is so much tuning discussion. I’m not dumping here but my PJs skied better after we fixed my core shot and grinder them. I thought it was me but maybe not.

With that said, the PJ RIIIIIPs in the trees

[N1CK.]

somebody should buy my 184s tell your friends!

It’s funny there is so much tuning discussion. I’m not dumping here but my PJs skied better after we fixed my core shot and grinder them. I thought it was me but maybe not.

With that said, the PJ RIIIIIPs in the trees

[nickel]

Asked in the protest thread but no luck so asking here, quick search hasn't yielded the answer I'm looking for. Does anyone have a weight on an UL protest in a 192? If not I guess I'll e-mail Keith but was hoping not to bother him until I get a bit more serious...

[grinch]

Asked in the protest thread but no luck so asking here, quick search hasn't yielded the answer I'm looking for. Does anyone have a weight on an UL protest in a 192? If not I guess I'll e-mail Keith but was hoping not to bother him until I get a bit more serious...

For reference, my standard enduro core gpo’s were 8.6lbs and my ul gpo’s (same flex) were 8.1. Veneer would take off about another 1/4 lb. with the width and extra length over my 182 gpo’s, the protest you’d be looking at taking atleast or about a pound off
Curious what you’d use an ul protest for ? With a veneer and enduro core(probably .35 lighter than list) is pretty reasonable weight for a ski this size. Ul might be fun for a dedicated touring rig in a quiver though. #quivergoals