Old folks getting older

[Danno]

Dad dropped dead at my wedding rehearsal dinner.

My grandmother called me a year or so ago in the middle of the night, which was really weird. She matter of factly told me that she was going to be dead by morning, that she wanted to say goodbye and that she was proud of me. I wasnt sure how to take it as she wasn't really sick leading up to that convo. Dead as a doornail by morning.

Wow.

[getoutside]

sorry to hear both of your stories, jgb and live2ski. neither is easy.

mother passed away a year ago. she fought cancer several times for many years (lymph nodes, breast cancer (twice) yet continued to beat it. her will to live and fight was inspirational. however, things changed when my father passed in '11. she just wasn't the same and that fight had dissipated. after being diagnosed with liver failure and dialysis the next step, kept dodging any questions about it. lived in pa and came out with my niece for each thanksgiving and this time, she looked like she was on death's doorstep. stopped taking pills, didn't really eat much, wouldn't discuss anything health-related, but enjoyed several glasses of wine with my wife. funny thing is she kept saying she was going to cancun with her friends in february, which i figured no way in hell that was happening. shit, the flight alone could kill someone in her condition. so, she ended up lying to her doctors about the trip, told her friends her doctors were cool with it, downgraded how she actually must have felt at the time...anything to make that trip. never made it back but give her props for saying fuck it, i'm going and she had a great time before she passed. could tell she was never going to do dialysis. when i said goodbye to her before her flight back, i knew i would never see her again and treated it as such. wonderful woman, going out on her terms.

getting old just sucks. make the best of every day while we have 'em

[wooley12]

Here we come. It's going to be another tsunami flooding the nursing homes as we did with the schools. All 4 of our parents are gone but looking back they all had the same philosophy. "We all gotta go sometime." My FIL went with Alzheimer's. He told my wife "I'm not afraid of dying, I'm more worried about what's in store for me between now and then." I was not happy with all of the care my dad needed and the worry he caused me until the wife taught me how to handle the pressure. "Look at this time with your dad as a gift you've been given"

Pro Tip: If they shouldn't be driving, remove the fuse to the fuel pump. After they kill the battery trying to start it, the AAA guy will have to tow it. Then it'll be up to you and the mechanic as to how many weeks it will take to "fix".

[hawkgt]

MIL just got out of hospital Tuesday, FIL was just put in yesterday and early onset Alzheimers is showing. Age is getting them and wife is struggling with next steps. Just a couple years ago they were vibrant retired couple traveling around the states, tough to see the change.

[Benny Profane]

Here we come. It's going to be another tsunami flooding the nursing homes as we did with the schools.

Nope, that ain't happening. Nursing homes are expensive, and most can't afford the thought. Remember retirement communities built around golf courses? That whole market, if there ever was one, was destroyed in the housing crash and Great Recession afterwards. Maybe in Florida, but, you would think that, with the first boomers hitting 71 this year that Florida would be turning away millions, but, nope, ain't the case. No, the boomers, in general, have no money. Literally half have, no money, and only SS to look forward to. Of the other half, maybe ten percent can afford a nursing home. Most will die wherever they are, and won't be leaving fortunes to the kids and grandkids living in the basement.

[HankScorpio]

My wife is 36 and all 4 of her grandparents are still alive. All 4 are in their mid 90s, live on their own, still married and are all sharp and totally with it. Needless to say, she's gonna out live me.

[Benny Profane]

Agree completely, but easier said than done. My mother has been struggling with stage iv lung cancer that has spread pretty much all over her body including her organs and bones. Her clavicle and a vertibrae in her neck shattered last week when a nurse was moving her from a bed to a chair. She has been getting Keytruda infusions & radiation treatments for a few months, but the cancer growth continues unchecked. Docs recently recommended a couple of surgeries to slightly extend her life and make that time more comfortable. She informed me that she's done suffering and is ready to die. She doesn't want any of the surgeries. I wanted to talk her out of it, and tell her that if she gives up she's done but after watching her live (barely - I'm not sure what she's doing right now quite qualifies as living) thru this I have to respect her deciscion. Even if it's the hardest fucking thing I've ever done in my entire life. For a dude who has never cried much in his life, this shit sure has activated the water works.

I swear those doctors should be taken out back and shot. Wtf? Operate at that stage? For fucks sake. Sorry, but lung cancer is still the worst death sentence from the start, and yet billions are sucked out of those dying bodies to fund Porsche and third home payments. There's no sales technique greater than "Well, there's still a chance, do you want to live another few months?". It's even made it to TV ads for overpriced drugs today. You know, using that sappy "Tommorrow, Tommorrow" song from Annie with really old, sick people playing with her grandchildren. Disgusting. I just watched a friend die of lung cancer recently, and probably close to a million dollars was made off him in just one year from every treatment they could think of. I'm pretty sure he was realistic about it all, but the relatives and friends were all, oh, Greg, please fight, consider the alternative. Fuck. More than once, I have read that most doctors, if diagnosed wth a medium stage cancer, especially lung, would close up shop, settle affairs, and find a good hospice. Of course, they would sell the Porsche, too.

[LightRanger]

My father in law just turned 90. He has lots of interesting stories from growing up in the middle of the Battle of Britain.

Word. Paternal grandpa died a bit over two years ago. A day past his 93rd birthday. Vitals/Organs were still good, but Parkinson's got him. Fucking terrible disease. Slow decline over eight years. He rallied for the last time to see his twin great-grandchildren three days before he died, and then that was pretty much it. His memory and cognitive function was quite sharp right until the end, but he became increasingly frustrated with his inability to express himself. Thank God my parents moved him and grandma in with them. Hospice was amazing too.

His story about diving into a foxhole to avoid being wasted by a V1 was a good one. He and nana (mom's mom) both lived through The Blitz. Both in the RAF. Badasses.

[Meadow Skipper]

I, for one, look forward to Bunny refusing treatment for any possibly terminal disease he might get so's the doctors don't make any money off him.

[hutash]

Agreed, but I would suggest removing the word "terminal".

[Benny Profane]

I, for one, look forward to Bunny refusing treatment for any possibly terminal disease he might get so's the doctors don't make any money off him.

As a matter of fact, dude, I have a living will that disables a lot of that shit. And, I've seen enough. My father (way back in the early ninties) amassing 700,000 of bills, my mom, and three cancer deaths close to me. No fucking way i'm going down like that. Best kept secret in America is that the whole medical treatment and drug industry is looking at trillions of revenue from the next twenty plus years of dying boomers. Not me. At a certain point, you have to say, hey, it's been good, I got mine, I'm outta here.

I mean, really, man, operating on an old women whose bones are so brittle she breaks from just being moved. Cmon.

[XXX-er]

my buddies dad is 93 and the last living WWII vet in town, Dave took care of himself and is in great shape except he doesnt remember anything after 1951 and it was hard to get him into a home because he was in such great shape. Along with the universal HC up here a seniors home is almost free up here cuz while they will take your income as reported on your income tax but if you have assets they will not touch those (so you could be worth a million $ and have free seniors accommodation) ... the rest is subsidized

So dave would ride his trike around town, he would goe to safeway but forget his groceries at the till, go to the post office which is ok if he has any mail cuz then he knows he has been to the PO, otherwise Dave will go back several times a day, in the rpocess Dave would fall off his trtike or got lost. Fortunatley its a small town so along the same lines as the saying " it takes a whole town to raise a child" it also takes a whole town to look after a senior with dementia so safeway knows where to call when Dave forgets his groceries, everyone knows the family so people would pick Dave up and put him back on his trike again and call my buddies cel to tell him, I seen dave pull out on the main highway without looking so i pulled up behind Dave with 4 way flashers to run interference until he gets off the highway

Dave didn't remember his wife had died so everytime he found out it was for the 1st time so he would be sad so reminders had to be left around his house that his wife had passed, finaly he had his bike taken away but Dave didn't remember he had a bike so no problem,

My bud eventualy had to hire an advocate to get Dave into a home and things have settled down, I still see dave at the coffee shop he is pretty good at hiding his dementia so he thinks so i just say hi dave

[Dantheman]

I, for one, look forward to Bunny refusing treatment for any possibly terminal disease he might get so's the doctors don't make any money off him.

I don't know, I pretty much agree with Benny here. We waste ungodly amounts of money on end-of-life care that often only prolongs or even exacerbates terrible suffering.

[XXX-er]

Don't blame the doctors cuz yer system is fucked

[Meadow Skipper]

I was thinking more of the time before you go unconscious and are making fully aware decisions...before the living will kicks in.

But we'll see when the time comes, won't we?

[Benny Profane]

I don't know, I pretty much agree with Benny here. We waste ungodly amounts of money on end-of-life care that often only prolongs or even exacerbates terrible suffering.

Well, it's not really "wasted", just diverted to the huge medical treatment and drug industry, when it can do better elsewhere. Like all the money the financial industry siphon out of our economy, returning little.

[Benny Profane]

Don't blame the doctors cuz yer system is fucked

Sure you can. They have a lot of power in these situations. But, they aren't truthful, or just plain lie in order to maintain that "system", which they make a decent living from.

[Art Shirk]

I was thinking more of the time before you go unconscious and are making fully aware decisions...before the living will kicks in.

But we'll see when the time comes, won't we?

That's exactly it. It all sounds so easy when you are relatively healthy and younger. Hell, I've told my wife that if I get some seriously bad news, I'm taking myself out to the back 20 with a shotgun before we drain our resources. But I've seen resolute men stare death in the face and wildly swing away against reason because its just fucking human nature most of the time. We are all Hunter Thompson or Hemingway in our own minds until it becomes real.

[skiballs]

Sure you can. They have a lot of power in these situations. But, they aren't truthful, or just plain lie in order to maintain that "system", which they make a decent living from.

Yup, docs are complicit in the whole health care shit show. The only way the drugs, tests and operations are preformed is by doctors orders. Which is exacerbated by the fucking ambulance chasing lawyers. As my doctor friend says, "half of doctors are assholes and don't like people".

I think you missed your calling Bunny.

[Benny Profane]

Yup, docs are complicit in the whole health care shit show. The only way the drugs, tests and operations are preformed is by doctors orders. Which is exacerbated by the fucking ambulance chasing lawyers. As my doctor friend says, "half of doctors are assholes and don't like people".

I think you missed your calling Bunny.

Well, thank you for that, but, you bring up an important point. Doctors, due to their long, brutal, and expensive education, tend to be sociopaths, very awkward in person to person interactions. Studies have been done. Ever know a pre med in college? They essentially missed that important, formative social experience, and it got worse through med school and residency.

[Sirshredalot]

That's exactly it. It all sounds so easy when you are relatively healthy and younger. Hell, I've told my wife that if I get some seriously bad news, I'm taking myself out to the back 20 with a shotgun before we drain our resources. But I've seen resolute men stare death in the face and wildly swing away against reason because its just fucking human nature most of the time. We are all Hunter Thompson or Hemingway in our own minds until it becomes real.

I don't think it helps that if you're sick and 85+ years old, you probably don't have all your wits about you to make good decisions about your treatment. It's very hard even for people who are young and not suffering from age-related cognitive decline.

[wooley12]

Sure you can. They have a lot of power in these situations. But, they aren't truthful, or just plain lie in order to maintain that "system", which they make a decent living from.

Doctors are trained to cure. Physicians Assistants are trained to care. My father had a living will with me in charge that didn't allow for dialysis but he fell and his weak kidney failed had a dialysis tube coming out of his neck when he left the OR. I don't think ER Docs spend much time reading the will. Dad called me after 3 years of nursing home and dialysis 3X a week he called me to say he was too tired to go any more. I had to question myself a lot about my role in pulling the plug until I realized my job was to do what he would have done and he never planned ahead or made decisions until he had to. He took each day as it came.

[XXX-er]

Are the Doctors making the decision to prolong life OR is it the family?

Up here the doctors just practise medicine according to the needs of the patient, they can prolong life according to the wishes of the family but they don't make that call and they don't have to spend their days fucking with insurance companies to get paid they just use their # to bill and they can average 250K a year without trying very hard and no patient gets a bill

the last attending Physician said "your mother has too many things wrong to fix" at which point she couldn't walk couldn't feed herself, couldn't hold down food or water, I forget if Doc had actualy suggested we pull the plug or maybe we had already made the mutual decision amongst the 3 of us but it was Doc's recommendation but not her call

I know it was more emotional for my younger sister and I don't know if she could have made that call to pull the plug herself, I volunteered to do the all nighters just like with my dad, I seem to remember 5 days, the shallow breathing gets stronger and then they stop for 30secs, that process repeats for a bit and she slips away at 2:30 am



its probably best to just go all Inuit style and put the elders adrift on an ice flow eh?

[Art Shirk]

Doctors are trained to cure. Physicians Assistants are trained to care. My father had a living will with me in charge that didn't allow for dialysis but he fell and his weak kidney failed had a dialysis tube coming out of his neck when he left the OR. I don't think ER Docs spend much time reading the will. Dad called me after 3 years of nursing home and dialysis 3X a week he called me to say he was too tired to go any more. I had to question myself a lot about my role in pulling the plug until I realized my job was to do what he would have done and he never planned ahead or made decisions until he had to. He took each day as it came.

It's more fashionable to claim doctors are part of a larger conspiracy to reupholster their mercs at the expense of the vulnerable. We are all living in the land of anecdote here, but there are many doctors in my family and I know more than a few oncologists that have a singular purpose, and that is to cure people, or at the very least, provide them with as many options as possible and let them make a decision. The oncologists I know deserve to drive whatever the fuck they want. We've seen Benny conflate material possessions with depth of character before dozens of time. It's a convenient way to look at the world, so its hard to blame him I suppose.

[berko]

Timely thread. Shit coming to a head as my 83 yr old dad's dementia is really starting to manifest, and age is stripping my 77 yr old mother's ability to compensate for her own insanity.

Even though we all saw it coming for year and years, its really sad to see it all unfold.

My dad took care of my mom her entire adult life and now that he cant even take care of himself, she is totally decompensating.

Fortunately for them, they have enough cash to maintain their sovereignty, but the flip side of that is that she is making impulsive and bad choices, demanding assistance, and doling out abuse to all that are trying to help.