This week in Canada.

[riser4]

Who/what are these Sens you guys are talking about?

LOL

[waxman]

What about the Sens?

The senators should be elected, 2 maybe 3 from each province.
Oh, you mean hockey? #dosportsdontwatchsports

[Beaver]

Sounds good! Got a coupe of spots in Nelson that're worth sharing too.

I found a super sweet campspot at christina lake. Was scouting bike trail.

[BCMtnHound]

Rex Murphy, journalist and political commentator passed away. Spent many Sunday afternoons listening to him on the National call-in show Cross Country Check-up. Smart and level (if massive) headed guy from the Rock.
Much appreciated your dedication and perspective Mr. Murphy. Didn’t always agree with you, but appreciated your passion and perspective.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/rex-m...uary-1.7199788

[grinch]

The ol dbl dbl

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C3n5s...MwMmtmbnQ4OG8z

Sent from my SM-S711W using TGR Forums mobile app

[Beaver]

Float plane smoked a boat on takeoff in Vancouver. Video on cbc site. You can hear the prop hitting the boat. Braap. https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/9.6417666

[ironhippy]

Float plane smoked a boat on takeoff in Vancouver. Video on cbc site. You can hear the prop hitting the boat. Braap. https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/9.6417666

Who's in the wrong here? I assume they both felt they had the right of way, I'd hope the plane, which was running commercially, was following protocols.

[m2711c]

least maneuverable vessel usually has right of way. boat wasn't keeping a proper lookout whilst underway.

[evdog]

Damn. I've flown Harbour Air from there a few times. You'd think the pilot would have seen the boat also and been able to avoid the crash by letting off the throttle. Maybe he thought he'd lift off and clear it, but with 5 passengers maybe had more weight than normal.

[waxman]

Damn. I've flown Harbour Air from there a few times. You'd think the pilot would have seen the boat also and been able to avoid the crash by letting off the throttle. Maybe he thought he'd lift off and clear it, but with 5 passengers maybe had more weight than normal.

I wonder if he could see over the nose?

[paulster2626]

Float plane has right of way. This is on every boater exam (PCOC) in the country.

[XXX-er]

Used to watch those taking off all the time, that plane would have been taking off from the base in Vangroovy right behind it, its hard to believe neither operator seen the the other, it doesnt really matter who has right of way if you are dead

[paulster2626]

Used to watch those taking off all the time, that plane would have been taking off from the base in Vangroovy right behind it, its hard to believe neither operator seen the the other, it doesnt really matter who has right of way if you are dead

Float plane is kinda pointed up at the sky when taking off, and is way less maneuverable.

It matters a lot who has right of way, actually. When one party is expected to change course, the other doesn't. This is so you don't end up in a situation where you have two vessels correcting their course in to one another. Boater is a fucking moron.

[ötzi]

If they were both boats, the (actual) boat would have been the stand-on vessel, meaning he's supposed to keep his course and speed. The plane (if it was a boat) would have been the give-way vessel, meaning he's supposed to turn or change speed to avoid collision. I've never seen the rules involving sea planes, maybe the boat captain hadn't either.

[Mazderati]

Juan has a good analysis. Some grey area in this one.

[XXX-er]

I used to ride a motorcycle around vangroovy so even tho I had the right of way I almost got hit so many times cuz people didnt see me so I would ride covering the brake pedal and clutch cuz it doesnt matter who has right of way if I got hit

[paulster2626]

If they were both boats, the (actual) boat would have been the stand-on vessel, meaning he's supposed to keep his course and speed. The plane (if it was a boat) would have been the give-way vessel, meaning he's supposed to turn or change speed to avoid collision. I've never seen the rules involving sea planes, maybe the boat captain hadn't either.

Either way it seems the area used by the planes where the accident occurred is pretty set, so perhaps some better markers would help. Around the Toronto Island airport there are LOTS of keep-out/warning buoys that it's impossible to miss the danger zone.

Just gotta keep that head on a swivel. Easy to relax and forget about responsibilities when on the water!

[paulster2626]

I used to ride a motorcycle around vangroovy so even tho I had the right of way I almost got hit so many times cuz people didnt see me so I would ride covering the brake pedal and clutch cuz it doesnt matter who has right of way if I got hit

For sure. Always assume the other drivers are trying to kill you. I would bet they teach this same mentality at the float plane school as well! Watched the video above, very good analysis. Turns out they have ATC in the harbour and they warned the pilot about the boat in the first place. Good thing nobody was killed - a wake-up call for all!

[riser4]

I used to ride a motorcycle around vangroovy so even tho I had the right of way I almost got hit so many times cuz people didnt see me so I would ride covering the brake pedal and clutch cuz it doesnt matter who has right of way if I got hit

You had close calls on your motorcycle with seaplanes and boats?!?!? Impressive!

[XXX-er]

That area is not really an airport, I don't think there are any warning buoys andyou don't see any in the vid, its more like this is where the sea planes have always taken off/ landed and that boat that got hit was likely headed for the gas barge in the middle of Coal harbor but i wouldn't be surprised if Transport Canada plants some signage after this accident

for those of you who don't understand having right of way but being dead, how about if yer married

do you wana be right or do you wana be happy?

[Ted Striker]

That area is not really an airport, I don't think there are any warning buoys...

It absolutely is an aerodrome. The code is CYHC. There's even a control tower (technically the "highest" tower in the world since it's on top of an office building at the foot of Granville St).

And it is marked. Float planes are only allowed to take-off & land in "area alpha" which is defined by a line between the Brockton Point Lighthouse and the Burnaby Shoal bouy light on the north end, and runs south to about 50m off Canada Place on the east side, and the seaplane base on the west side. IIRC there are a few max 5kts white bouys on the west side as well. The fuel barge is just west of the area.

Boats are allowed to transit the zone at 5kts or less, because there's no other way to get in/out of the marina.

The harbor rules state "transit slowly and predictably. Make no wake when passing moored seaplanes. Keep clear of aircraft operations zone. Watch the horizon for landing aircraft and keep clear of anticipated landing area."

[Ted Striker]

If they were both boats, the (actual) boat would have been the stand-on vessel, meaning he's supposed to keep his course and speed. The plane (if it was a boat) would have been the give-way vessel, meaning he's supposed to turn or change speed to avoid collision. I've never seen the rules involving sea planes, maybe the boat captain hadn't either.

Yeah, the boat was stand-on for sure. But somewhere in the COLREGs there's also mention of "vessels restricted in their ability to manoeuvre" so there's been a lot of debate on whether or not a floatplane taking off is legally considered as such. As someone who's flown them, I'd say yes - or at least they should be.

When you're taxing around on the water, they're fairly maneuverable if the wind isn't too strong, because they have water rudders at the back of each float (pontoon). When taking off, you retract the water rudders before accelerating, so your steering authority is somewhat limited until there's enough air over the tail. Add to that the P-factor of the prop between taxi speed and planing (a term that pilots don't actually use - it's called "on the step") can require up to full rudder input just to go straight. Once on the step, you can turn, but the water needs to be relatively flat. And you're moving faster than most boats, so the radius is huge.

And then there's the visibility. This beaver still had its original nine cylinder radial engine. Looking right from the pilot's seat is pretty much impossible until up on the step, and even then not great. There's a good chance the pilot didn't see the boat until it was right there.

[Darren Jakal]

Happy First of July!

[riser4]

Whole country closes down iirc. You can barely buy gas. At least that was my experience on 7/1/2022.

[XXX-er]

Yeah, the boat was stand-on for sure. But somewhere in the COLREGs there's also mention of "vessels restricted in their ability to manoeuvre" so there's been a lot of debate on whether or not a floatplane taking off is legally considered as such. As someone who's flown them, I'd say yes - or at least they should be.

When you're taxing around on the water, they're fairly maneuverable if the wind isn't too strong, because they have water rudders at the back of each float (pontoon). When taking off, you retract the water rudders before accelerating, so your steering authority is somewhat limited until there's enough air over the tail. Add to that the P-factor of the prop between taxi speed and planing (a term that pilots don't actually use - it's called "on the step") can require up to full rudder input just to go straight. Once on the step, you can turn, but the water needs to be relatively flat. And you're moving faster than most boats, so the radius is huge.

And then there's the visibility. This beaver still had its original nine cylinder radial engine. Looking right from the pilot's seat is pretty much impossible until up on the step, and even then not great. There's a good chance the pilot didn't see the boat until it was right there.

I have flown a number of times into Burnie hut and doing some forestry in a turbo otter which as old as me but upgraded with the Turbine and STOL, the pilot told me with the turbine they lenghten the nose to balance the airplane so vis didnt seem too bad as i remember and it didnt matter how loaded the airplane even with a canoe tied to each float when the pilot hit the throttle I was always amazed at how fast we were in the air, always a rush even tho I knew it was coming