Utah Boycott?

[TEXASS]

I realize this is a certain Hospitals Policy but Man, This is BULLSHIT

https://www.yahoo.com/news/teenager-...235754820.html

[BobMc]

I think EVERYONE should boycott the fuck out of Utah.

[digitaldeath]

He alleges a doctor told his son: "You will die. You better get your affairs in order," at which point the teenager broke down in tears.

what "affairs" does a 19 year old have to get in order

doctor should be sued or perhaps shot

and everyone should infiltrate bobmc most prized zones

[steezybomber]

saw that article this morning. Sounds like Philly Hospital gave him a shot, and big props to the donor. I understand policies are put in place for specific reasons, but damn. i hadn't heard that is what the doctor said. thats rough. vibes to fam.

[UTpowder]

Mrs UTpowder and I have been discussing this quite a bit the last few days. It has weighed heavily on both of us. The reason is exactly 3 years ago to the hour we received a call from our Dr that that there was a pair of lungs for transplant and that my wife would be life flighted first thing in the morning from the intermountain medical center to the U of U for a double lung transplant. This was what we had been preparing for for 4 years. The two months previous had been spent in the ICU. The Drs had told us the only chance of survival would be to have a transplant and soon. The U of U initially refused putting her on the list. The reason given was she was in too poor of health and would most likely not make it through surgery. We had a wonderful pulmonary Dr who spent countless hours researching and persuading until the u of u finally agreed to put her on the list. 2 weeks later she received the transplant. Today she is as close to normal as we could have ever imagined. Finished the year with 16 days skiing and has already purchased next years season pass.

While we were waiting to be listed for transplant it had been discussed about her going to Philly not because the U of U could not do the procedure but because of the possible complications that could arise. They understood this and realized that there maybe somewhere else that could provide for a better outcome then what they could.
Perhaps something similar is what happened in this case.

Lungs (or any other organ) for transplant are not just available in quantities sufficient to meet the need. The U of U as well as many other transplant hospitals have guidelines to make sure those receiving the lungs have the very best possible chance of survival. Any kind of smoking or illegal drug use automatically removes you from the list. We are good friends with a lady that is trying to stop smoking tobacco so she can be transplanted. We met her through the support groups we attended while spending 6 months in the hospital. She is not bitter towards the hospital or Drs. She understands why and is trying to get things sorted out so she can have the best chance of transplant success and survival. Which by the way is about 50%.

This kid in the story did not die because the university of Utah did not do the transplant. He received the transplant at somewhere that was more prepared to deal with the possible complications that could possibly arise. If he had been transplanted in Utah the outcome would most likely have been the same or worse. He was not sent to a lower level of care but to a higher one.

It's difficult to see the loss of life especially loss that can be prevented But as it's said. Shit happens and sometimes nothing can be done. From our experience the Drs at the U of U have been nothing but caring people that want the very best possible outcome for their patients. I owe my wife's life to them.

The thing that bothers me the most in this whole thing is the comments I have seen on the local tv station comment board. People saying they are going to never be an organ donor now. That this kid was discriminated against. That is simply not the case. They say everyone that needs a transplant should get one. I know of no Dr that would disagree. There simply are not enough organs available. By not being a donor they are not helping to solve the problem, they are making it worse.

We have met the family of my wife's donor. In fact we are very close to them and visit often. We have a bond that cannot be described. We are so very thankful for the gift we received but heartbroken that they lost their son. We have a debt that cannot be repaid. Yet they are so giving and caring towards us They know part of their son and brother keeps living inside my wife. There isn't a day that goes by we do not think about Colby. And yes from what we have heard about him he used his fair share of the "evil weed." And yet today we celebrate his life and thank him and his family for making the choice that let my wife continue to live.

Thanks Colby, wherever you are.

[MTT]

Mrs UTpowder and I have been discussing this quite a bit the last few days. It has weighed heavily on both of us. The reason is exactly 3 years ago to the hour we received a call from our Dr that that there was a pair of lungs for transplant and that my wife would be life flighted first thing in the morning from the intermountain medical center to the U of U for a double lung transplant. This was what we had been preparing for for 4 years. The two months previous had been spent in the ICU. The Drs had told us the only chance of survival would be to have a transplant and soon. The U of U initially refused putting her on the list. The reason given was she was in too poor of health and would most likely not make it through surgery. We had a wonderful pulmonary Dr who spent countless hours researching and persuading until the u of u finally agreed to put her on the list. 2 weeks later she received the transplant. Today she is as close to normal as we could have ever imagined. Finished the year with 16 days skiing and has already purchased next years season pass.

While we were waiting to be listed for transplant it had been discussed about her going to Philly not because the U of U could not do the procedure but because of the possible complications that could arise. They understood this and realized that there maybe somewhere else that could provide for a better outcome then what they could.
Perhaps something similar is what happened in this case.

Lungs (or any other organ) for transplant are not just available in quantities sufficient to meet the need. The U of U as well as many other transplant hospitals have guidelines to make sure those receiving the lungs have the very best possible chance of survival. Any kind of smoking or illegal drug use automatically removes you from the list. We are good friends with a lady that is trying to stop smoking tobacco so she can be transplanted. We met her through the support groups we attended while spending 6 months in the hospital. She is not bitter towards the hospital or Drs. She understands why and is trying to get things sorted out so she can have the best chance of transplant success and survival. Which by the way is about 50%.

This kid in the story did not die because the university of Utah did not do the transplant. He received the transplant at somewhere that was more prepared to deal with the possible complications that could possibly arise. If he had been transplanted in Utah the outcome would most likely have been the same or worse. He was not sent to a lower level of care but to a higher one.

It's difficult to see the loss of life especially loss that can be prevented But as it's said. Shit happens and sometimes nothing can be done. From our experience the Drs at the U of U have been nothing but caring people that want the very best possible outcome for their patients. I owe my wife's life to them.

The thing that bothers me the most in this whole thing is the comments I have seen on the local tv station comment board. People saying they are going to never be an organ donor now. That this kid was discriminated against. That is simply not the case. They say everyone that needs a transplant should get one. I know of no Dr that would disagree. There simply are not enough organs available. By not being a donor they are not helping to solve the problem, they are making it worse.

We have met the family of my wife's donor. In fact we are very close to them and visit often. We have a bond that cannot be described. We are so very thankful for the gift we received but heartbroken that they lost their son. We have a debt that cannot be repaid. Yet they are so giving and caring towards us They know part of their son and brother keeps living inside my wife. There isn't a day that goes by we do not think about Colby. And yes from what we have heard about him he used his fair share of the "evil weed." And yet today we celebrate his life and thank him and his family for making the choice that let my wife continue to live.

Thanks Colby, wherever you are.

Awesome.
Thanks for sharing that.

[summit]

Double lung transplant... roughly 20% mortality at 1 year and 50% mortality at 5 years. The only reason such rates are accepted is that it is an amazing procedure for people who are otherwise doomed.

Regular cannibas use does pose some significant pain control issues in the post-op environment... but cancelling a surgery... well I'm not a transplant expert. I can say that in lung transpant patients, *strict* adherence to a post-op medication regimen is required lest chances of survival absolutely plummet with a very limited resource at stake, so if the surgeon sees that someone can't adhere to a simpler pre-op requirement, the apprehension about decreased chances of success directly leads to shit like that policy. I'm not saying that I agree, just that it is not necessarily just a LDS hates pot thing.

Now alcohol withdrawal in a post op... complication/mortality city!

[St. Jerry]

Mrs UTpowder and I have been discussing this quite a bit the last few days. It has weighed heavily on both of us. The reason is exactly 3 years ago to the hour we received a call from our Dr that that there was a pair of lungs for transplant and that my wife would be life flighted first thing in the morning from the intermountain medical center to the U of U for a double lung transplant. This was what we had been preparing for for 4 years. The two months previous had been spent in the ICU. The Drs had told us the only chance of survival would be to have a transplant and soon. The U of U initially refused putting her on the list. The reason given was she was in too poor of health and would most likely not make it through surgery. We had a wonderful pulmonary Dr who spent countless hours researching and persuading until the u of u finally agreed to put her on the list. 2 weeks later she received the transplant. Today she is as close to normal as we could have ever imagined. Finished the year with 16 days skiing and has already purchased next years season pass.

While we were waiting to be listed for transplant it had been discussed about her going to Philly not because the U of U could not do the procedure but because of the possible complications that could arise. They understood this and realized that there maybe somewhere else that could provide for a better outcome then what they could.
Perhaps something similar is what happened in this case.

Lungs (or any other organ) for transplant are not just available in quantities sufficient to meet the need. The U of U as well as many other transplant hospitals have guidelines to make sure those receiving the lungs have the very best possible chance of survival. Any kind of smoking or illegal drug use automatically removes you from the list. We are good friends with a lady that is trying to stop smoking tobacco so she can be transplanted. We met her through the support groups we attended while spending 6 months in the hospital. She is not bitter towards the hospital or Drs. She understands why and is trying to get things sorted out so she can have the best chance of transplant success and survival. Which by the way is about 50%.

This kid in the story did not die because the university of Utah did not do the transplant. He received the transplant at somewhere that was more prepared to deal with the possible complications that could possibly arise. If he had been transplanted in Utah the outcome would most likely have been the same or worse. He was not sent to a lower level of care but to a higher one.

It's difficult to see the loss of life especially loss that can be prevented But as it's said. Shit happens and sometimes nothing can be done. From our experience the Drs at the U of U have been nothing but caring people that want the very best possible outcome for their patients. I owe my wife's life to them.

The thing that bothers me the most in this whole thing is the comments I have seen on the local tv station comment board. People saying they are going to never be an organ donor now. That this kid was discriminated against. That is simply not the case. They say everyone that needs a transplant should get one. I know of no Dr that would disagree. There simply are not enough organs available. By not being a donor they are not helping to solve the problem, they are making it worse.

We have met the family of my wife's donor. In fact we are very close to them and visit often. We have a bond that cannot be described. We are so very thankful for the gift we received but heartbroken that they lost their son. We have a debt that cannot be repaid. Yet they are so giving and caring towards us They know part of their son and brother keeps living inside my wife. There isn't a day that goes by we do not think about Colby. And yes from what we have heard about him he used his fair share of the "evil weed." And yet today we celebrate his life and thank him and his family for making the choice that let my wife continue to live.

Thanks Colby, wherever you are.

Any argument or opinion I may have had is now invalid after reading this

[TEXASS]

Excellent post MTT. I do understand all that can be involved with transplant decisions. My beef is with the doctor telling the father His son will die. Maybe that type of sobering bedside manor may be ok in a war zone but In a hospital in Utah?
father should have kicked the Dr.s ass right there

[digitaldeath]

He told it to the kid

[Canada1]

Excellent post MTT. I do understand all that can be involved with transplant decisions. My beef is with the doctor telling the father His son will die. Maybe that type of sobering bedside manor may be ok in a war zone but In a hospital in Utah?
father should have kicked the Dr.s ass right there

The doctor was probably pissed off that he could save the kids life and then he was red lined because he smoked pot when he was on the donor list. My experience is that most doctors want to win, and being prevented from doing the procedure probably frustrated him beyond belief.

There are no winners when a kid dies. The whole situation is bad.

[PassTheDutchie]

The doctor was probably pissed off that he could save the kids life and then he was red lined because he smoked pot when he was on the donor list.

I'm not sure of the timing on this, but it is possible that the kid used pot before his health collapsed... Traces of the devil-weed can stay in the body for 30+ days.

[UTpowder]

Excellent post MTT. I do understand all that can be involved with transplant decisions. My beef is with the doctor telling the father His son will die. Maybe that type of sobering bedside manor may be ok in a war zone but In a hospital in Utah?
father should have kicked the Dr.s ass right there

Yes^^^. Not the right thing to do if that's how it was said to the kid. Mrs UTpowder was told that with out the transplant she would face the same fate. She wanted to know. It was tough on her but she wanted to know exactly what was going on and she kept on the Drs and nurses to know exactly what was going on.

I wonder if this is how it was out to the kid here? I wasn't in the room so I don't know. But I do know that patients don't always understand exactly what is being said to them especially in very stressful situations. The studies show only half of what is said will be remembered and only half of that will be remembered correctly.

When things got bad and she almost didn't make it. The Dr would give her her own update and then talk to me separately out in the hall. I was told on more then one occasion that if things in the next few hours didn't improve she would not make it long enough to get to transplant.


It seems all the attention though is being focused on the marijuana use. And that's it's all because this happened in Backwoods Utah. That's not the case. Yes Utah has some very strange laws regarding alcohol etc. This is not one of those cases and is binging wrongly represented that way by the media. It is doing nothing but causing hostility towards organ donation. Three years ago at 9:00 am (15 minutes from now) I had to say goodbye for what could have been the last time and watch my brave wife being wheeled away. Today she is out on her daily 3 mile walk with the dog. I just hope this doesn't effect people's decision on organ donation.

[SJG]

why does everyone assumed he smoked it?

[TBS]

^^^Because he admitted to smoking cannabis two weeks before he was hospitalized
http://www.sltrib.com/news/5209429-1...ospital-denied

UTPowder, thanks for your insight. Very happy that your wife is doing well.

In the final analysis, Riley Hancey got his transplant, but didn't survive. Shred in peace young man

[stuckathuntermtn]

Was this the same hospital I posted a pic of an ad in the airport for? Slightly less than 50/50 chance of dying from something you picked up while IN the hospital! Hurray!

[old goat]

The international guidelines say "free of substance addiction" for six months. The questions are whether marijuana use qualifies as substance addiction, whether marijuana use per se has an adverse effect on transplant success (reasonable to assume that smoking it does for lung transplants), whether the kid would survive 6 months without transplant, whether he was counseled to not use marijuana and then used it anyway. Was he ever out of the hospital after being told he needed the transplant? If the situation was that he got sick, was hospitalized, and was waiting in the hospital for the lungs because he was too sick to go home and wait and that the marijuana use predated his illness then denying him the transplant was unreasonable IMO. Apparently the other hospital agreed. The article doesn't tell us if his condition deteriorated due to the delay and whether that contributed to his death.
I wonder how U of U would have handled the situation of someone who was not an alcoholic but admitted to having a glass of wine with dinner once or twice a week and who was too sick to stay alcohol free for 6 months.
As far as the international criteria--what is the scientific basis for their exclusion of substance addiction; what do they mean by addiction, and what substances qualify; and how much are they due to scientific evidence and how much due to moral judgement?
In the end doctors need to consider each case as unique. There is a difference between transplanting someone with chronic, slowly worsening lung disease from smoking for years and who has continued to smoke despite being given ample opportunity to quit, and a marijuana user with acute, severe respiratory failure who needs the transplant immediately. Given his youth and fitness Riley had a lot better chance to do well with transplant then an older, more chronically ill patient with no history of substance use. Unfortunately it was not to be, but I'm sure his death had nothing to do with his marijuana use.

Please--everyone get your flu shots this fall. Please.

(Full disclosure--I vape marijuana, but I'm too old for a transplant anyway.)

[My Pet Powder Goat]

Utpowder, thanks for sharing your experience and insight. -It definitely changed my perspective.
Best wishes and continued health to the missus.

OG, why get flu shot? To protect those with compromised immune systems?

[DBdude]

The international guidelines say "free of substance addiction" for six months.
Please--everyone get your flu shots this fall. Please.

I am not picking a fight, but I have to say that if you are being considered for a transplant that you are highly incentivised to lie.

[old goat]

Utpowder, thanks for sharing your experience and insight. -It definitely changed my perspective.
Best wishes and continued health to the missus.

OG, why get flu shot? To protect those with compromised immune systems?

Riley died of complications of flu, according to the article (assuming the article is accurate). While the very young, the old, and the compromised are at greatest risk for flu the young and healthy aren't immune. In fact the deadly Spanish flu of 1918 showed a prediliction for healthy people in the prime of life.

[GPP33]

Excellent post MTT. I do understand all that can be involved with transplant decisions. My beef is with the doctor telling the father His son will die. Maybe that type of sobering bedside manor may be ok in a war zone but In a hospital in Utah?
father should have kicked the Dr.s ass right there

I think when someone is on their death bed it's time to get real. The doc knew he couldn't get the transplant and he knew the inevitable outcome. Best to tell the truth at that point. Sucks but it's for the best, closure is important to family and friends.

We weren't there so we don't know how the message was delivered. I'm assuming it was in a respectable manner.

[dgilligan02]

I don't have much to add to this thread other than PLEASE register to donate your organs. My dad got a heart transplant almost 20 years ago...thanks in advance.

[MTT]

I'm not sure of the timing on this, but it is possible that the kid used pot before his health collapsed... Traces of the devil-weed can stay in the body for 30+ days.

I do not have all the facts. But this is what I had thought to be the case.
So this kid got caught up by an inflexible law that at face value makes sense.

He was the unintended consequence of good intentions.

Imagine you take an occasional toke. You get in a car wreck or some other trauma.
You need an organ transplant to live. They do drug test, you fail, you die?

Is that how it works in Utah?

that would be fucked up

I have always had "Organ Donor" on my ID/ License. How could you not make the gesture?

[powdork]

There's lots of reasons to boycott utah. This isn't one of them. These are hospital policies, not state policies.

Having said that, the whole 'you can't live because you smoked pot' thing is bullshit on every level. And the timeline in the sltrib article doesn't make sense

The outdoor enthusiast was admitted to the U. Hospital on Dec. 2, his father said, and was put on life support two weeks later. He was denied transplant eligibility at the U. in early April after traces of tetrahydrocannabinol, or THC, the main active ingredient in marijuana, were found in his system.
At the time, Mark Hancey said his son smoked it with his friends on Thanksgiving after a year of being drug-free.

at first I though it was a lie on the part of the kid because no way pot would stay there for 4 months, but it just looks like the 'April' is a fuckup of some sort because

After Riley Hancey was denied from the U., Mark Hancey said the family searched for hospitals across the country for nearly two months. UPenn added him to its transplant list and moved him to Philadelphia on March 11, where he waited in ICU for matching donor lungs. Doctors there performed a double lung transplant on March 29.

either way, it looks like he smoked pot before he was sick because

Riley spent more than 68 days in the ICU at University Hospital