The new -2017- CAST touring system thread

[galibier_numero_un]

Grinding anything would be the last resort (if at all). If you did this and then sold them to me without disclosure, I'd be really pissed.

They seem to err toward the slightest bit of "play" in the system, and I'd eliminate any possibility of mounting accuracy from consideration before grinding anything.

If the screw holes are epoxied in place, I'd try breaking the epoxy loose and re-mounting - first, with no epoxy - seeing if you get a better fit with both toes.

If this works, add the epoxy and let it cure with one of the toes in place - reconfirming that both toes engage nicely.

If that doesn't work, I might send both tech toes and Look plates back to CAST for analysis.

... Thom

[waveshello]

My money would be on the purple tech toes being the source of the problem. I'm still using the purps too, and they tend to go on more snugly on all of my cast mounts than the gen 2 or gen 3 alpine toes I have.

[CHAIR_97]

I mounted the cascade plates today in the existing inserts on my Rens. I got them to compensate for transitioning into shorter BSL a while ago. The pivot arms were basically flush, skied them a bunch and still lived to tell the tale.
Results are in and alpine toes go in smoothly, no problems. Tech toes are pita and managed to get them to fit only after the hammer came out. I'm thinkiing some detuning of the posts might be needed, otherwise they are basically unusable in field.
Attachment 473687

Let me get this straight... someone came up with a plate system machined out of a solid piece of aluminum and it still doesn't work?

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[east or bust]

I mounted the cascade plates today in the existing inserts on my Rens. I got them to compensate for transitioning into shorter BSL a while ago. The pivot arms were basically flush, skied them a bunch and still lived to tell the tale.
Results are in and alpine toes go in smoothly, no problems. Tech toes are pita and managed to get them to fit only after the hammer came out. I'm thinkiing some detuning of the posts might be needed, otherwise they are basically unusable in field.
Attachment 473687

Who manufactures those? A quick google search came up with nothing. Were those an in between from Cast 1.0 to the current freetour setup?

Those are more fancy than Cast 1.0 but still look like they'd be prone to the same issues - either negatively affecting the flex pattern or bending in the same fashion that the Cast 1.0 plates did.

[Brasso]

Who manufactures those? A quick google search came up with nothing. Were those an in between from Cast 1.0 to the current freetour setup?

Those are more fancy than Cast 1.0 but still look like they'd be prone to the same issues - either negatively affecting the flex pattern or bending in the same fashion that the Cast 1.0 plates did.

Cascade Components. I think they are custom order only at this point.

https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...Cast-Toe-Plate

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[banzai]

Yea, so the cascade plate was discussed here earlier in the year, hence why I posted here and not on the linked cascade thread.

@arild thanks for the caliper work. I will get some golds off my budy and see how those fit. Cascade have tested with the newer versions (golds in their thread), perhaps the problem really is in the CAST earlier v2.1. purple toes.

@Thom Your comment is a bit confusing to me - they are not for sale, let alone do I plan to not disclosing anything. Also, as mentioned in my og post, I have two setups with inserts I've been using for years, so not looking for any mounting tips here. I mentioned a couple of months back on this thread, that I ordered the cascade plates and will report back, so here I am sharing my experience with the plate, which is produced by cascade (not CAST). Also I am in Europe, so sending anything out is a major pita and out of the question. I am also doubtful CAST will have any interest in analysing the fit of a plate from a third party manufacturer.

@SirVicSmasher Yea, no. I got two perfectly fine installs on inserts that have been great for the last couple of season. I added this cascade setup and will be doing a 4th conversion on some HL skis soon. Its fair to say I am very happy with my CASTs.

edit: typos

[arild]

Yea, so the cascade plate was discussed here earlier in the year, hence why I posted here and not on the linked cascade thread.

@arild thanks for the caliper work. I will get some golds off my budy and see how those fit. Cascade have tested with the newer versions (golds in their thread), perhaps the problem really is in the CAST earlier v2.1. purple toes.

@Thom Your comment is a bit confusing to me - they are not for sale, let alone do I plan to not disclosing anything. Also, as mentioned in my og post, I have two setups with inserts I've been using for years, so not looking for any mounting tips here. I mentioned a couple of months back on this thread, that I ordered the cascade plates and will report back, so here I am sharing my experience with the plate, which is produced by cascade (not CAST). Also I am in Europe, so sending anything out is a major pita and out of the question. I am also doubtful CAST will have any interest in analysing the fit of a plate from a third party manufacturer.

@SirVicSmasher Yea, no. I got two perfectly fine installs on inserts that have been great for the last couple of season. I added this cascade setup and will be doing a 4th conversion on some HL skis soon. Its fair to say I am very happy with my CASTs.

edit: typos

No worries,dude. I remember these plates from way back when they did feelers in the market, but haven't had a Cast product since Cast 1.0. Now I do again, and while mounting and aligning was a true bitch, really looking forward to skiing them (on HL c113s).

I do love to see people working outside the status quo, and absolutely not a stranger to modding products for them to better work for my goals.

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[halliday]

Yea, so the cascade plate was discussed here earlier in the year, hence why I posted here and not on the linked cascade thread.

@arild thanks for the caliper work. I will get some golds off my budy and see how those fit. Cascade have tested with the newer versions (golds in their thread), perhaps the problem really is in the CAST earlier v2.1. purple toes.

@Thom Your comment is a bit confusing to me - they are not for sale, let alone do I plan to not disclosing anything. Also, as mentioned in my og post, I have two setups with inserts I've been using for years, so not looking for any mounting tips here. I mentioned a couple of months back on this thread, that I ordered the cascade plates and will report back, so here I am sharing my experience with the plate, which is produced by cascade (not CAST). Also I am in Europe, so sending anything out is a major pita and out of the question. I am also doubtful CAST will have any interest in analysing the fit of a plate from a third party manufacturer.

@SirVicSmasher Yea, no. I got two perfectly fine installs on inserts that have been great for the last couple of season. I added this cascade setup and will be doing a 4th conversion on some HL skis soon. Its fair to say I am very happy with my CASTs.

edit: typos

What screws are you using for a CAST mount with inserts?

[banzai]

Toe - 16 mm (flatheads, full length measure) x 4 pcs
Riser block - 16 mm (lowhead, thread lenght measure) x 2 pcs
Heel-front - 10 mm (lowhead, thread lenght measure) x 2 pcs
Heel-rear - 18 mm (lowhead, thread lenght measure) x 2 pcs

Quickguide - use proper metal jig to drill, install inserts, set up plate and posts - tighten to 90% just so there are no moving parts, install toe piece, tighten last 10%, let them cure.

[halliday]

Toe - 16 mm (flatheads, full length measure) x 4 pcs
Riser block - 16 mm (lowhead, thread lenght measure) x 2 pcs
Heel-front - 10 mm (lowhead, thread lenght measure) x 2 pcs
Heel-rear - 18 mm (lowhead, thread lenght measure) x 2 pcs

Quickguide - use proper metal jig to drill, install inserts, set up plate and posts - tighten to 90% just so there are no moving parts, install toe piece, tighten last 10%, let them cure.

Are you grinding any of the screw heads for the toe pieces? I have the screws for the heels and riser blocks. I know CAST says to not mount with inserts but Ive done enough insert mounts with Jiggarex plates to get it dead nuts on.

[banzai]

Nah, not needed. I use PZ2 heads and they fit right in: https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...8&d=1582369289
PZ3s might fit even better and will be more robust.
Do they really (say not to mount with inserts)?

edit: flatheads are countersunk - just making sure we are on the same page.

[banzai]

The cascade plates are perfect. The gold tech toes click like lego. You guys with non-purple toes have it good!
My analog caliper work didnt find any discrepancies in thickness. They are basically ~6,5mm as Arild pointed earlier. There are some small design improvements (full size photo dump incoming). However, when I lay them side by side on a flat surface, it becomes apparent whats generally wrong with the purple toes. The golds lay flat, no light can come trough, while the purple are a bit concave.

[CHAIR_97]

The cascade plates are perfect. The gold tech toes click like lego. You guys with non-purple toes have it good!
My analog caliper work didnt find any discrepancies in thickness. They are basically ~6,5mm as Arild pointed earlier. There are some small design improvements (full size photo dump incoming). However, when I lay them side by side on a flat surface, it becomes apparent whats generally wrong with the purple toes. The golds lay flat, no light can come trough, while the purple are a bit concave.

The only difference I see is circled in yellow. Bending these tabs is cast 101.

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[Island Bay]

It’s the photo above the one you’ve scribbled on. You can see light under the purple base plates.

[galibier_numero_un]

Yea, so the cascade plate was discussed here earlier in the year, hence why I posted here and not on the linked cascade thread.

@Thom Your comment is a bit confusing to me - they are not for sale, let alone do I plan to not disclosing anything. Also, as mentioned in my og post, I have two setups with inserts I've been using for years, so not looking for any mounting tips here. I mentioned a couple of months back on this thread, that I ordered the cascade plates and will report back, so here I am sharing my experience with the plate, which is produced by cascade (not CAST). Also I am in Europe, so sending anything out is a major pita and out of the question. I am also doubtful CAST will have any interest in analysing the fit of a plate from a third party manufacturer.

Of course they're not for sale. I get that. My point was that if someone modded a piece of gear and then decided to sell it without disclosure, I'd be a pissed off purchaser.

Anyhow, I missed the Cascade Plate reference and hence the mounting tips. From here on out, I'll keep a running summary of everyone's posts and unique situation No good deed goes unpunished, eh?

Regarding the fit, I agree that your only choice is to remove some material from the tech toes. If you have multiple sets of CAST tech toes, keep track of which pair matches this rig (doh!).

It appears as if there's a tolerance stacking issue here - something that neither manufacturer is to blame for, but is always a potential issue when parts come from two different manufacturers.

... Thom

[banzai]

@Thom Yeah, if someone sold me dogshit, I'd be pretty pissed as well. But I dont do that and suggesting it gets me pissed too.
The golds I borrowed from a friend - because science. IMO CAST recognised what could be improved on the purps and by the time they rolled out the golds and other colours they nailed it. You can see in the comparison the small changes, like the enlarged space for the nubbin. The full tunnel for crampons is another one, although this might be for faster production, which one can argue is product improvement as well, just in another dimension. The golds are more refined, which is something normal for later stage product lifecycle. So Cascade tested and based their solution on the more refined version, which is the way to go imo. There is risk with early adopters and I am ok with that, no fingers pointed.

@SirVicSmasher Bending the tabs is more like cast 101 for non optimal mounts.

[arild]

@Thom Yeah, if someone sold me dogshit, I'd be pretty pissed as well. But I dont do that and suggesting it gets me pissed too.
The golds I borrowed from a friend - because science. IMO CAST recognised what could be improved on the purps and by the time they rolled out the golds and other colours they nailed it. You can see in the comparison the small changes, like the enlarged space for the nubbin. The full tunnel for crampons is another one, although this might be for faster production, which one can argue is product improvement as well, just in another dimension. The golds are more refined, which is something normal for later stage product lifecycle. So Cascade tested and based their solution on the more refined version, which is the way to go imo. There is risk with early adopters and I am ok with that, no fingers pointed.

@SirVicSmasher Bending the tabs is more like cast 101 for non optimal mounts.

Have you reached out to Cast, see if they'll step up to rectify your issue?

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[banzai]

Didnt cross my mind tbh. They've been super helpful in the past, when I broke my latch/spring/lock mechanism and send me replacement right away. I will see how the HL mount goes and maybe drop them an email for advice.

[galibier_numero_un]

@Thom Yeah, if someone sold me dogshit, I'd be pretty pissed as well. But I dont do that and suggesting it gets me pissed too.
The golds I borrowed from a friend - because science. IMO CAST recognised what could be improved on the purps and by the time they rolled out the golds and other colours they nailed it. You can see in the comparison the small changes, like the enlarged space for the nubbin. The full tunnel for crampons is another one, although this might be for faster production, which one can argue is product improvement as well, just in another dimension. The golds are more refined, which is something normal for later stage product lifecycle. So Cascade tested and based their solution on the more refined version, which is the way to go imo. There is risk with early adopters and I am ok with that, no fingers pointed.

That makes sense. Both the CAST boys and Cascade folks seem to be dedicated to improving their respective products.

Some folks might not get my "tolerance stacking" comment in my previous post. I was in a rush, so I might as well clarify for those who might be interested.

When you're fabricating a part that mates to another (lets say a male rod and a female hole ... 'coz this is TGR), each part has a specified tolerance range. It depends on the machine shop as to what their default number is, as well as how tight a range they're either willing or able to achieve. Typical default is .005".

---

Let's say you have a male thingie that's specified at 1.000 (-.005/+0). That's .995 to 1.000. Any part that meets this spec is considered acceptable.

So now, you're another manufacturer (let's say Cascade) and you need to make a female thingie to mate with that part.

You're no doubt, in the dark as to the spec the male parts are manufactured to, and you're only avenue is to sample as many parts as you can, and then assume that these are representative of their (CAST's) tolerance range. You probably add a bit of extra wiggle room, due to uncertainty.

So, let's assume you derived the above spec (.995 to 1.000). I'll write the tolerances in this format from here on out, for simplicity. Due to uncertainty, you expand the spec to .993 to 1.002.

Now you have to make a batch of parts that have their own tolerance range. So, you specify holes that are 1.003-1.005 (a .002 range). This "ensures" their biggest rod will fit in your smallest hole (that's what she said).

So now, your customer has a small rod (.995) and you present them with a big hole (1.005). It's not very satisfying, as .010 is a lot of slop in some applications.

What if your sample size wasn't representative and it is in fact .995 to 1.005. Your smallest hole is now too tight (1.003).

... Thom

[Bojangles Mgillicutty]

Best shop in SLC to convert my p15 to cast?

[altacoup]

Level 9 Millcreek ask for Dibs to do it. Skifishbum is his Alias on here. Hasn’t posted on here in a while, which is surprising.

[arild]

Best shop in SLC to convert my p15 to cast?

If they're already mounted, it takes about fifteen minutes to do the conversion yourself.

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[Bojangles Mgillicutty]

Level 9 Millcreek ask for Dibs to do it. Skifishbum is his Alias on here. Hasn’t posted on here in a while, which is surprising.

Is dibs the older guy who runs the shop? He has been very cool to me a couple of times, doing some work no charge and just asking me to tell other people nice things about L9

And yeah the p15 are already mounted and I'm sure it's easy to drill a couple new holes but...no i don't tool good

[XXX-er]

Level 9 Millcreek ask for Dibs to do it. Skifishbum is his Alias on here. Hasn’t posted on here in a while, which is surprising.

cuz we lack stoke

[halliday]

Is dibs the older guy who runs the shop? He has been very cool to me a couple of times, doing some work no charge and just asking me to tell other people nice things about L9

And yeah the p15 are already mounted and I'm sure it's easy to drill a couple new holes but...no i don't tool good

You can do it!! Post pics of the mount.....we are waiting.