Atomic Hawx Ultra XTD aka Hawk Extended aka HawX

[gregL]

Take my example with a grain of salt (I have no idea what sort of fit you are used to) but I measure out at 27.6 on a Brannock and have the 26.5 Ultra XTD. Definitely touching the toes on both feet when the boot was new, but the ankle fit on the boot is so snug (I also have a custom footbed in place) that I get no fore-aft movement at all, even when skinning, and the fit has been perfect (about 11 days so far, about half touring).

[XXX-er]

As for the toe buckle, IMO it is longer than necessary and sticks up too high off the shell (you'll notice this as soon as you boot a few hundred feet in crust). You can solve the problem by clipping off the forward part of the cage and grinding it smooth, then dremeling divots where the buckle contacts the steel base so it lies lower.

Atomic probably should have reversed that buckle so the lever closes to the inside and on top of the toe

edit; i read your review and you mention as such ... good review !

[jacob_dbu]

Take my example with a grain of salt (I have no idea what sort of fit you are used to) but I measure out at 27.6 on a Brannock and have the 26.5 Ultra XTD. Definitely touching the toes on both feet when the boot was new, but the ankle fit on the boot is so snug (I also have a custom footbed in place) that I get no fore-aft movement at all, even when skinning, and the fit has been perfect (about 11 days so far, about half touring).

That seems like a pretty tight fit. I know you have much more experience than I do, but I measure about the same on a brannock and I only have about 15mm of space in a shell fit on the 27.5.

[gregL]

That seems like a pretty tight fit. I know you have much more experience than I do, but I measure about the same on a brannock and I only have about 15mm of space in a shell fit on the 27.5.

It is what it is. Forefoot shape (like a blunt, square shape in a pointed shell) can have an effect, as can heel spurs, etc. Normally I would expect someone who measures out at a 27.5 on a Brannock to have 22-23mm of space when shellfit in a 27.5 shell. I probably have 11-12mm in the 26.5 Hawx Ultra. The critical thing is to lock in your midfoot so you don't slide - if you succeed in this you can be right at the front of the boot (assuming you don't spend all day skiing backseat or dropping 20 footers to wheelie, etc.) - this applies to pretty much anyone trying to downsize. If you have a sloppy fit in the midfoot/ankle/heel you can be in a much bigger shell and still slam your toes.

[jacob_dbu]

The critical thing is to lock in your midfoot so you don't slide - if you succeed in this you can be right at the front of the boot (assuming you don't spend all day skiing backseat or dropping 20 footers to wheelie, etc.) - this applies to pretty much anyone trying to downsize. If you have a sloppy fit in the midfoot/ankle/heel you can be in a much bigger shell and still slam your toes.

If I can get a good heel/midfoot lock in a "normal" size, then is there any other benefit of downsizing?

[gregL]

If I can get a good heel/midfoot lock in a "normal" size, then is there any other benefit of downsizing?

Do you consider a "normal" size to be the Mondopoint size you measure? Just because that's what your foot measures doesn't mean you have to ski that size boot. For three different skiers with the exact same foot, there could conceivably be at least three different ways to fit them, but in general advanced to expert level skiers choose to go 1/2 to a full size smaller than their Mondopoint length. Why?

Any time you can get the shell of the boot closer to your foot there is an advantage in response, leverage, and snow feel. It's also lighter and there is less torque on your leg in a twisting fall. Dropping a size usually means the shell is also 2mm narrower and generally lower in volume, not just a centimeter shorter. It also usually means more work needs to be done by the bootfitter to make the fit acceptable. Whether a given skier wants, needs or is willing to go through the hassle of this process is the hardest thing to judge both for the skier and the bootfitter.

Dropping a size or more isn't for the faint of heart or those who don't have access to bootfitting services. Those who do so should accept that there will be multiple days of discomfort while the boots pack out and most likely multiple trips to the bootfitter to dial the fit in.

[jski171]

This is a great point. An advanced skier will almost always benefit from downsizing from their measured mondopoint as long as they are willing to use foot support and work with a good fitter (and ski more than a couple weeks a year). you can fit an AT boot like your alpine shell as long as your heel and ankle are secure. An exception would be if you’re frequently touring in sub zero temps. Also intuitions are worth every penny in a tight shell fit

[Bronco]

How is the fit of the Hawx relative to the Backland Carbon? I'm in a 26.5 that's pretty snug.

The Hawx seems like a great boot to pair up with a Marker King Pin and wider ski.

[gregL]

How is the fit of the Hawx relative to the Backland Carbon?

I'm in a 26.5 in both boots. The Hawx Ultra XTD is very slightly longer and slightly higher in volume, you should take the same size.

[Bronco]

Thanks Greg!

[smooth operator]

Do you consider a "normal" size to be the Mondopoint size you measure? Just because that's what your foot measures doesn't mean you have to ski that size boot. For three different skiers with the exact same foot, there could conceivably be at least three different ways to fit them, but in general advanced to expert level skiers choose to go 1/2 to a full size smaller than their Mondopoint length. Why?

Any time you can get the shell of the boot closer to your foot there is an advantage in response, leverage, and snow feel. It's also lighter and there is less torque on your leg in a twisting fall. Dropping a size usually means the shell is also 2mm narrower and generally lower in volume, not just a centimeter shorter. It also usually means more work needs to be done by the bootfitter to make the fit acceptable. Whether a given skier wants, needs or is willing to go through the hassle of this process is the hardest thing to judge both for the skier and the bootfitter.

Dropping a size or more isn't for the faint of heart or those who don't have access to bootfitting services. Those who do so should accept that there will be multiple days of discomfort while the boots pack out and most likely multiple trips to the bootfitter to dial the fit in.

^^ solid info right there. thnx

[dcpnz]

Greg, Lee,

Either of you got any hands on (feet in?) with 120?
Thoughts vs 130?

I not a huge guy, dont get rowdy in BC, not getting any younger and starting to think I’d go 120 not 130 in RX’s for resort boot if buying again.

Seems 120 all I’d need/want in the XTD, weight diff is not material, price is nicer, and PU cuff might be a benefit.

[gregL]

Haven't seen a 120 XTD, but the fit should be identical - and the PU cuff may have a more progressive flex. Let us know.

[XavierD]

The 120 XTD shell will fit the same. The liner is much higher volume however, giving a tighter fit. The paper thin liner in the 130 doesn't take up much space. The 120 should fit pretty close to the Ultra 120/130. Liner is similar, but with a soft spot behind the ankle to enable rear ROM.

[LeeLau]

Matt Manser said it pretty well in the NS thread. 120 should be fine for almost everyone. 130 is all bells and whistles; kind of almost a dentist boot. 120 is priced way better

[retirwntm]

But it goes to 11...


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[tharmor]

However, didn’t atomic add a bunch of weight to the liner of the 120 to make it more of an inbound boot? If that’s true, the two don’t seem to be competitors.


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[Eluder]

Anybody used these in alpine clamps? How the plastic wear?

[XavierD]

Anybody used these in alpine clamps? How the plastic wear?

I dunno, but definitely something to watch for. Apparently it doesn’t play well in Marker SoleID bindings.

[wilcox510]

This may seem like a small silly thing, but when trying these on in the shop (with Intuition liners) , in tour mode the cuff buckles didn't seem to really want to stay open. They kept trying to close, which limited the cuff range of motion. I really like the cuff buckle on my Salomon MTN Labs which sort of locks in the open position to prevent this. Anyone know of some similar sized buckles that lock open like the MTN lab buckles that you could swap these out with (the MTN Lab buckles are way too big)?

[gregL]

This may seem like a small silly thing, but when trying these on in the shop (with Intuition liners) , in tour mode the cuff buckles didn't seem to really want to stay open. They kept trying to close, which limited the cuff range of motion. I really like the cuff buckle on my Salomon MTN Labs which sort of locks in the open position to prevent this. Anyone know of some similar sized buckles that lock open like the MTN lab buckles that you could swap these out with (the MTN Lab buckles are way too big)?

Yes, it would be nice if they stayed open. In the meantime I leave the bales out of the ladders completely (or just hook the lower one in the silver clip) and pull my pants over them to keep them from flapping. Works fine.

[gramboh]

Matt Manser said it pretty well in the NS thread. 120 should be fine for almost everyone. 130 is all bells and whistles; kind of almost a dentist boot. 120 is priced way better

Can confirm, dentist friend just picked up a pair of 130's to replace his Zero G Guide Pros from last year that he could never get perfectly dialed. Tom approves .

[carlh]

Is the 120 noticeably softer than the 130? I tried on the 130s at the shop and they felt like a good stiffness but were a size too small. If I order the 120s I save $100 but can't try them on and 130s are out of stock in my size right now (28.5, want to buy local -through Evo for fitting). I could see myself adding a set of powerwraps to the 130s for better ankle fit and more stiffness inbounds.
I am leaning 130 because I am 6'3" 200lbs and will ski these as my only boot and I like to go fast and jump off (small) things both inbounds and in the BC. I am in spectres now and they are way too soft in anything other than blower pow or smooth corn.

[robnow]

I’ve tried both 120 and 130. I weigh 190lbs and found quite a difference in flex between the two in the shop. The 130 I find to be a stiff boot, the 120 maybe close to, if not less than the Freetour 130s.

Just checked Evo and they list a 200g difference between the two, almost all liner I assume.

BTW, for me the small circumference of the stiff Grilamid lowers makes them very uncomfortable to get into but once they’re on, I’m finding them to be the smallest volume of any of this class of boot, excellent heel hold.

[carlh]

I’ve tried both 120 and 130. I weigh 190lbs and found quite a difference in flex between the two in the shop. The 130 I find to be a stiff boot, the 120 maybe close to, if not less than the Freetour 130s.

Just checked Evo and they list a 200g difference between the two, almost all liner I assume.

BTW, for me the small circumference of the stiff Grilamid lowers makes them very uncomfortable to get into but once they’re on, I’m finding them to be the smallest volume of any of this class of boot, excellent heel hold.

Thanks for the comparison, sounds like I am on the right track with the 130, now evo just needs to get some more 28.5s