Meanwhile in Florida...

[evdog]

The principals who built that tower and approved it and the costomers bought them before the trading started are all dead or damn well near it. Same as thousands and thousands of other East coast projects. They were thinking short term, made their money, thinking, not my problem in forty years.
I bet those condos were damn near a million if the balcony looked out on the water

You can see the recent sales on Zillow. Most recent sale closed on 6/17 for $710k and had partial view of the water. The one before that was a penthouse for $2.9M. How glad are those people to have GTFO?

[bennymac]

A bucket brigade? Jesus fucking christ we are doomed as a species if someone is dumb enough to think that is the solution here.

[Core Shot]

JUNE 21--A South Carolina man told cops that his girlfriend of two weeks assaulted him during “an argument over making S’mores” early Saturday morning, according to an incident report.

Responding to an assault call from a Myrtle Beach residence, police interviewed the couple, both of whom said that they quarreled over the graham cracker/chocolate/marshmallow delicacy.

But while the 45-year-old woman said the dispute “never got physical and was verbal only,” her 54-year-old boyfriend alleged that she struck him during the S’mores dispute.

“The victim and offender have been dating for about 2 weeks and lived together the whole time,” a Myrtle Beach Police Department cop noted.

Since the man had no bruises or marks to corroborate his claim--and no other witnesses were present during the alleged assault--there “was not enough to make an arrest on the offender,”

[Harry]

^^^ Lulz that Core Shot thinks Myrtle Beach is in Florida…. ^^^


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[JimmyCarter]

^^^ Lulz that Core Shot thinks Myrtle Beach is in Florida…. ^^^


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It’s there in spirit

[Benny Profane]

Except in February.

[Core Shot]

It’s there in spirit

Not every Florida meth head lives in Florida

[seano732]

A bucket brigade? Jesus fucking christ we are doomed as a species if someone is dumb enough to think that is the solution here.

Narrator: We are, in fact, doomed as a species......

[The AD]

Unless I'm missing something it seems that 1. there are still people living in the portion of the Surfside condo complex that didn't collapse, and 2. many of these people still are still "weighing their options" on whether they want to continue living there.

That's got to be the most Florida thing ever. It reminds me of the old Eddie Murphy bit about white people wanting to stay in a haunted house, whereas black people would get the hell out immediately.

[John_B]

Unless I'm missing something it seems that 1. there are still people living in the portion of the Surfside condo building that didn't collapse, and 2. many of these people still are still "weighing their options" on whether they want to continue living there.

That's got to be the most Florida thing ever.

I think(or hope) those are the people in the "sister" tower that is built the exact same? Or that is fucking incredible.

[The AD]

I think(or hope) those are the people in the "sister" tower that is built the exact same? Or that is fucking incredible.

Correct. I guess it's a year newer, but I think otherwise quite similar. I'd certainly get the fuck out until there was a thorough inspection done and even then I can't imagine ever being comfortable living there.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/26/u...acuations.html

[I originally said "building" but corrected it to "complex." It's a separate building]

[Benny Profane]

https://slate.com/business/2021/06/m...ry-crisis.html



"And I mentioned earlier that condo building is our state’s industry. I literally mean that. The state of Florida was basically considered a wasteland until developers figured out that they could sell the dream of Florida. I’m not exaggerating on this. Our economy over history has basically been a pyramid scheme of developers and people marketing the dream of Florida, to come down to Florida, it’s so beautiful, it’s so carefree. Well, now we have something to care about. This is a serious thing that this tragedy has brought to the forefront, and I think we’re going to be dealing with it for a very long time."

[Benny Profane]

Oh, and: "Keep in mind, Sarasota Magazine reminds us, “Florida is home to 23,149 condominium associations and 1,516,375 condominium units, more than any other state. Most of them were built in the last 50 years.”

The last sentence is important. And it's not just Florida. The whole east coast is lined with condo towers that weren't there before WW2. Just beaches. I lived in Florida in 1980, and was shocked to see the wall of towers lining the beach in Ft. Lauderdale that weren't there back then on a recent visit. All of this is so new, and now that the original builders, investors, and owners are dead and gone, it's repair time. Or, they fall down.

[The AD]

All of this is so new, and now that the original builders, investors, and owners are dead and gone, it's repair time. Or, they fall down.

It's not like buildings are collapsing everywhere in this country, so I view this is a pretty isolated incident unless I see evidence otherwise.

[Benny Profane]

Well, in a sense, maybe some of these condo owners should pray for a mighty storm, like Sandy. If their building needs major zillion dollar repairs right now, and I'll bet there's a lot now or in the near future, then they, the tenants are responsible for the cash. But, if a hurricane wipes out and/or severely damages their hood on the edge of land next to the raging sea. then you and I, the taxpayer, will help cover them with emergency financing in the billions, like all of the residents of the Jersey Shore who got bailed out by us, instead of taking the hint and moving.

[Benny Profane]

It's not like buildings are collapsing everywhere in this country, so I view this is a pretty isolated incident unless I see evidence otherwise.

From WAPO just now.

"Auditors reviewing condo infrastructure in Miami-Dade are already eyeing issues that could threaten residents
Auditors reviewing condo infrastructure in Miami-Dade County in the wake of last week’s catastrophic collapse have already identified serious problems that could threaten the safety of people living in high-rises across the area, according to a county spokesperson and public records reviewed by The Washington Post.
A team of county auditors has identified 24 high-rise condo buildings that were flagged as “unsafe” by inspectors in recent years. Public records show that many of the cases were opened years ago and never closed. And an inspection conducted Monday as part of an across-the-board review ordered by Mayor Daniella Levine-Cava has already identified a new structural problem with one building: a rusted steel beam supporting balconies in a four-floor building."

[The AD]

I guess I shouldn't underestimate the Floriduh factor at work.

[evdog]

Oh, and: "Keep in mind, Sarasota Magazine reminds us, “Florida is home to 23,149 condominium associations and 1,516,375 condominium units, more than any other state. Most of them were built in the last 50 years.”

The last sentence is important. And it's not just Florida. The whole east coast is lined with condo towers that weren't there before WW2. Just beaches. I lived in Florida in 1980, and was shocked to see the wall of towers lining the beach in Ft. Lauderdale that weren't there back then on a recent visit. All of this is so new, and now that the original builders, investors, and owners are dead and gone, it's repair time. Or, they fall down.

If condo development is like other industries I'm sure there were plenty of subcontractors out there who cut corners in the name of profit. You might not result in issues right away but this is not a good thing when dealing with things like structural concrete impacted by long-term issues like water intrusion and salt water.

I used to work for a high rise condo developer in Vancouver. A bunch of Vancouver developers came down to Socal in late 1990s/early 2000s when the market in BC was tanking. At the time there weren't enough contractors down here who had experience building concrete high rises so we brought our own subs down from Canada. There was probably more high rise expertise on the east coast but if Florida was booming with developments, experienced subs may have been in short supply. When there's a hot market everyone comes crawling out of the woodwork to cash in. Inevitably you get some developers or subs doing projects who are in over their heads or just don't give a shit. That's what I think of when I read about a pool deck or roof being built flat so it won't drain.

It's going to be interesting to see what the fallout from this is. First, construction defect lawyers are going to have a field day. They already come in and try to scare the shit out of HOAs to drum up lawsuits. Now they have residents and HOAs who are already on edge and freaking out at the smallest things.

Then there is the issue of building replacement. Every building has a useful life and it should be a lot longer than 40 yrs for concrete or steel. But now people are going to be having doubts. At what point do you tear it down and build new? HOA fees are calculated to cover both maintenance and replacement, but I doubt any HOA has truly accounted for full building replacement in its calculations. If they did, every one of them would have a huge reserve built up by age 40 or 60. Yet most are chronically under funded to keep dues low. That's not surprising, in reality covering full replacement is basically saddling owners with a second mortgage, albeit over a longer time frame. So what happens when it really is time to tear it down and reserves are insufficient - a massive assessment? A tower like this can easily cost $100M. Most owners won't be able to afford that and will walk away. Remaining owners and banks holding mortgages will be left holding the bag. Will prices in old buildings plummet? I can see a lot of lawsuits flying around....

[k2skier112]

It's not like buildings are collapsing everywhere in this country, so I view this is a pretty isolated incident unless I see evidence otherwise.

An average of 12 feet above sea level, sandy marshy wetlands and sinkholes everywhere

[old goat]

An article today about underfunded condo associations for those of you who can get around the paywall. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/01/u...-collapse.html

As far as lawsuits over condo problems--once the builders are off the hook--in CA the statute of limitations for hidden construction defects is 10 years--when people sue over problems with their building they are basically suing themselves. With no deep pockets to go after will the lawyers still be interested.

[bobz]

So what happens when it really is time to tear it down and reserves are insufficient - a massive assessment? A tower like this can easily cost $100M. Most owners won't be able to afford that and will walk away. Remaining owners and banks holding mortgages will be left holding the bag. Will prices in old buildings plummet? I can see a lot of lawsuits flying around....

I don't have a link, but there's a document popping up in news pieces, where the board gets good and blunt about how the concrete near the base had serious problems, that underlying rebar not so well protected any more surely had problems too, that last time they told everyone about it the cost was going to be about $12M, and now it's going to be $15M or so (plus 20% allowance for overages). Clearly that little letter, and the prospect of well over $100K per unit assessments, didn't get quick results from the homeowners, but it sure was discussed.

I also kind of wonder how the city gets away with not finding the same stuff and threatening to condemn the joint, when that's what the board's own inspection revealed.

As for how that works for homeowners, previous residence got assessed for I think around $20K (per unit the size of ours), probably more than $30K in today's dollars, for redoing balconies, sliding glass doors, and a raft of other external things. People coughed up the bucks; I recall the board lining up lenders for anyone who couldn't cut a check.

[Benny Profane]

I dont get these ambulance chasing lawyers lining up to sue. I had one shouting on my TV last night. How is he going to make money? He's trying to convince the tenants, or, well, relatives of tenants, since most owners are mud right now, to get all hot and bothered and sue themselves, if they're alive, or sue their dead parents and grandparents estates. Its bizarre. And, correct me if I'm wrong, but, the value of all of those apartments just vanished into a worthless pile of junk, because most of the insurance recipients, if there was any kind of insurance, are now part of that pile of junk.
Maybe the only kind of lawyer who will get near this is bored and just wants publicity.

[bobz]

^ Yeah, that's another thing about that board document citing structural damage and proposing a $15M+ assessment: It would seem to cover the board's ass pretty well. And assuming that document was in any subsequent sellers' disclosure papers, covers recent sellers as well. I don't know, maybe tenants' estates can try to get money out of the owners' insurance coverage?

[Benny Profane]

TALLAHASSEE, FL—Fleets of rescue helicopters, speedboats, and school buses rushed to evacuate more than 21 million Florida residents Tuesday after the entire state—from the panhandle all the way down to Miami and the Keys—was declared structurally unsound and condemned by inspectors. “Go! Go! Go! We haven’t got much time before this whole thing collapses!” shouted civil engineer Roy Sandoval, who was helping to oversee the rescue of Floridians following a report that found no building in the state was up to code and structural damage was so pervasive that nothing in its 65,758 square miles was worth salvaging. “Whoever developed and built Florida clearly had no idea what they were doing. This place is not fit for human habitation. It’s a death trap. We need to get these people to safe ground immediately, because it’s not a matter of if Florida will cave in upon itself, but when. Honestly, the fact that it hasn’t already broken apart and crumbled into the sea is a miracle.” Documents obtained by the press confirmed that the last time Florida underwent a proper inspection was just before its application for statehood was approved in 1845.

[Benny Profane]

Florida man say alligator bad. Florida man teach alligator lesson.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...teach-n1274168