P18 Pivot FKS forward pressure - ignore the indicator?

[Judo Chop!]

need a new pair of pivots. What brakes work best for a 104mm ski?
My current boots are 336 BSL, but I will be likely replacing them next season with a 333BSL (3m shorter). Should I just mount a bit shorter than current boots for best adjustment range, or just not stress it and mount with a jig for current boots? No more room on the ski for extra holes, so I gotta be on it.

Where can I buy a jig for these things? I'll do enough that it might be worth it.

thanks.

[Mustonen]

I’d mount shorter. There’s some fuckery afoot with mounting 5mm shorter than the jig anyways.... I’m not sure where around here I saw that, but it was true on my last mount. Ended up being *just* within range, but 3mm shorter BSL could be problematic.

IAS has a ghetto-fied but perfectly serviceable jig. Before that any number of shops had no problems with me using their tools, with the occasional 6 pack as payment.

[Spyderjon]

need a new pair of pivots. What brakes work best for a 104mm ski?
My current boots are 336 BSL, but I will be likely replacing them next season with a 333BSL (3m shorter). Should I just mount a bit shorter than current boots for best adjustment range, or just not stress it and mount with a jig for current boots? No more room on the ski for extra holes, so I gotta be on it.

Where can I buy a jig for these things? I'll do enough that it might be worth it.

thanks.

I'd go 95mm width slightly tweaked. A jig can be ordered from any Rossi/Dynastar/Look dealer and the part no. is FCFF001 Metal Adult Template - I'd offer to get one for you but they're big'n'heavy so the shipping from the UK would probably kill it. Set the jig for your current boot, drill the toe holes and then shorten the jig by 7mm. Then put the jig back on the ski, with the jig aligning with the drilled toe holes, then drill the heel holes. You're now sorted for both bsl's and you'll only be 1.5mm forward of the line in the shorter boot.

[Spyderjon]

I’d mount shorter. There’s some fuckery afoot with mounting 5mm shorter than the jig anyways....

Yep, when mounting Pivots I mount the toe for the bsl then shorten the jig by 4mm before drilling the heels - this then puts the heel in the middle of it's adjustment.

So my 7mm reduction above is based upon mounting for the next seasons shorter boot but for the remainder of this season the heel can be lengthened for the current boot.

[Judo Chop!]

thanks a lot guys. that is all confirming my thoughts. glad I asked.

yeah, I've been doing the beers-for-jig thing. Just figured it's about time to step it up.

cheers.

[Dee Hubbs]

The "close the jig 5mm" is not folklore, its actually in the LOOK manual.

FYI the part number listed in the above photo is for a narrow body jig.
Spyderjon's reference to FCFF001 Metal Adult Template is what you want.

[mr_pretzel]

The "close the jig 5mm" is not folklore, its actually in the LOOK manual.

FYI the part number listed in the above photo is for a narrow body jig.
Spyderjon's reference to FCFF001 Metal Adult Template is what you want.

Is this true for each style of jig? There is atleast 3 at this point

[Spyderjon]

The FCFF001 Metal Adult Template is the now the only consumer alpine binding jig offered by Look. They also do two tech binding jigs (for their rebadged Dynafit Rotations & Superlites) plus a Demo/rail jig.

Look are currently out of the FCFF001 jig - well in France anyway - I don't know if they hold stock in NA. I've just emailed them re availability.

[Mustonen]

The "close the jig 5mm" is not folklore, its actually in the LOOK manual.

Definitely fuckery, though.

Why would they do that? Why not just move the rear binding holes forward by 5mm on the jig? Surely there’s a good reason....

[Judo Chop!]

between the mounting fuckery and the forward pressure artistry, there must be some goal to keep some sort of barrier to entry for pivots.

[Mustonen]

between the mounting fuckery and the forward pressure artistry, there must be some goal to keep some sort of barrier to entry for pivots.

Don’t even get me started on the fucking brake assembly...... once you get all that sorted it’s almost like you’ve passed initiation.

[snowaddict91]

Fucking hell, y'all are making me question why I've went so deep down the pivot fanboi rabbit hole...

I should also probably just buy a jig and get that over with, not like I'm switching teams anytime soon.

[Dee Hubbs]

Fucking hell, y'all are making me question why I've went so deep down the pivot fanboi rabbit hole...

I should also probably just buy a jig and get that over with, not like I'm switching teams anytime soon.

Make your own jig. Buy a 1" think piece of acrylic thats 20" long and 4" wide. Take it to your local shop and pay them to drill it for your 315mm BSL, drill it for the full shank size of the jig bushing hole. Take it home, score a centerline and boot sole line on it. Now you have a clear template/drill jig for your Pivots.
My Lange BSL has not changed in 12 years (Fuck you Lange XT3 at -3mm) I've mounted 20+ pairs of my skis with an acrylic template like this. I know the exact same place my heel adjusters need to be screws too.

[Spyderjon]

For those that've enquired about getting a Pivot jig, Look are advising that they should be available end April/early May so I'll check with them again nearer the time.

[GoldenBC]

Question regarding this 5mm offset comment on the jig. Is this applicable to the Rossi jig and the jigarex? We just mounted some Pivots last night without the 5mm adjustment and when the forward pressure is set correct (no brake movement, stepping on the heel piece by a mm, etc) the arms are adjusted well past the center knurled band. If the binding was mounted 5mm closer it oils have maxed out the arm adjustment.

Thoughts?

[mr_pretzel]

Question regarding this 5mm offset comment on the jig. Is this applicable to the Rossi jig and the jigarex? We just mounted some Pivots last night without the 5mm adjustment and when the forward pressure is set correct (no brake movement, stepping on the heel piece by a mm, etc) the arms are adjusted well past the center knurled band. If the binding was mounted 5mm closer it oils have maxed out the arm adjustment.

Thoughts?

Not applicable for the jigarex in my experience(30+ jigarex pivot mounts)

[ntblanks]

Make your own jig. Buy a 1" think piece of acrylic thats 20" long and 4" wide. Take it to your local shop and pay them to drill it for your 315mm BSL, drill it for the full shank size of the jig bushing hole. Take it home, score a centerline and boot sole line on it. Now you have a clear template/drill jig for your Pivots.

i really like this idea for any binding I'll be using more than once.

was looking for acrylic and discovered it's pricey plus haven't yet found a pre-cut 20x4x1. any tips for sources or other materials (besides grade A 1x4 trim)?

EDIT: found TAP Plastics that sells them for $31 which isn't too bad. but still interested in alternative materials that work well but cost less.

[margotron]

-put your ski on the floor with boot clicked in
-stand on your ski, to prevent it from going anywhere
-pull up on your boot and watch for heel lift - most obvious indicator is watching your brake arms for movement

when i do this the binding eject so i must be super strong i only run 17.5 so i could go up a little more maybe that it

[margotron]

I have used P18 exclusively for 20+ years.

Pivots only for 15 years. I’ve mounted, bent brakes, rebuilt, swapped springs in every variation of these bindings.

this man can't be trusted, clearly

[margotron]

i really like this idea for any binding I'll be using more than once.

was looking for acrylic and discovered it's pricey plus haven't yet found a pre-cut 20x4x1. any tips for sources or other materials (besides grade A 1x4 trim)?

EDIT: found TAP Plastics that sells them for $31 which isn't too bad. but still interested in alternative materials that work well but cost less.

I bought a sheet of plexi at Home Depot (like for a shed window) and made jigs for all my bindings. Kindly fiddly, had to turn the jigsaw to max speed or else it would crack the plexiglass. Wasted some material that way

[Dee Hubbs]

i really like this idea for any binding I'll be using more than once.

was looking for acrylic and discovered it's pricey plus haven't yet found a pre-cut 20x4x1. any tips for sources or other materials (besides grade A 1x4 trim)?

EDIT: found TAP Plastics that sells them for $31 which isn't too bad. but still interested in alternative materials that work well but cost less.

I search on eBay, and find offcuts that are around that size, Usually cheaper. It needs to be that thick because the tip of the 4.1x9mm bit can wonder if the shank is not supported before it hits the tops sheet. Even at 3/4" (19mm) only supports 10mm of the shank before the tip touches the top sheet.

I bought a sheet of plexi at Home Depot (like for a shed window) and made jigs for all my bindings. Kindly fiddly, had to turn the jigsaw to max speed or else it would crack the plexiglass. Wasted some material that way

It also cuts very well with table saw or skillsaw.

[gwat]

I’ve been meaning to make a plexi jig...was going to use thinner (2mm) material to make it affordable and drill holes just big enough to fit a punch.

Then punch using the jig, drill a pilot hole with 1/8” bit and finish up with 4.1 bit.

The punch>pilot>4.1 gives very acceptable accuracy for me, no bit drift.

[galibier_numero_un]

Strange year ... COVID concerns and not skiing, so what better to do than re-read this thread for perhaps the 4th time ... and ... I don't even own Pivots at the moment. Get a life, Thom ...

Anyhoo, I reflected on how I arrived at my method. Lemme know if my assumptions are off.

My key assumptions:

• The angle of the dildo changes as you vary the forward pressure.
• A correctly set up binding results in the contact surface of the dildo being parallel to the boot heel's ledge
• Ergo, get the ledge parallel and you're done!

This also happens to be consistent with the 1mm or so clearance that everyone reports, but to my way of thinking, boot heel wear can mean that this method is a bit inconsistent.

My picture #3 in post #93 shows this. There's a bit of parallax in the photo and it appears to be off by 4 or 5 degrees, but you get the point (it really was parallel). I saved you the trouble of scrolling up and linked the photo again.

Amirite?





... Thom

[gwat]

*The angle of the dildo changes as you vary the forward pressure.

If forward pressure is too high- yes.
If forward pressure is correct or too low- no.

The heel spring and pivot bushing align on a flat mating surface when the heel is fully engaged....so there is only one possible angle for a properly adjusted heel to sit at.

[galibier_numero_un]

If forward pressure is too high- yes.
If forward pressure is correct or too low- no.

The heel spring and pivot bushing align on a flat mating surface when the heel is fully engaged....so there is only one possible angle for a properly adjusted heel to sit at.

Good point about "too low or correct, then no dildo angle change". And ... there ya go ;-)

... Thom