P18 Pivot FKS forward pressure - ignore the indicator?

[pfluffenmeister]

grip walk AFD or the dual height one? the 14 DIN toes are self adjusting for height, the added vibram is probably screwing it up, does it still fall into ISO 5355 dimensional standards?

Hmm, height of toe lugs is 20mm.
AFD is the old, no-side to side slide or height adjustment AFD.

edit: I can't find 5355/2019 w/o buying it. but this page from ISO 5355/2005: https://www.sis.se/api/document/preview/906255/ seems to indicate that the toe lug height is 19mm +/- 1mm?

[waxman]

Hmm, height of toe lugs is 20mm.
AFD is the old, no-side to side slide or height adjustment AFD.

edit: I can't find 5355/2019 w/o buying it. but this page from ISO 5355/2005: https://www.sis.se/api/document/preview/906255/ seems to indicate that the toe lug height is 19mm +/- 1mm?

without seeing the boot i'm guessing the vibram mod is interfering with the slidyness (that's a technical term) of the system
as mentioned the toe height is self adjusting, you decide

[ClayCole]

Krypton Pro, but it does have a Vibram toe block (with a AFD) added.
P14 and FKS140 (I'm setting up two pairs of skis).

I can pull out the card I use to test toe friction in between the boot and binder, but it takes more effort than usual.
(Usually run STHs).

The card test is for STHs only, it's more of a gap test than a friction test and STHs have toe height adjustment to dial in the gap. For pivots just do a bench return to center test, if you can get the boot toe to travel 3-5mm left and right and it snaps back to center nicely then you're good to go.

If the toe height is way off due to custom boot mods or trying to get non-compliant boots to work, you could in theory un-mount the toe from the ski and install plastic shims between the toe piece mounting plate and the AFD mounting plate to increase the toe height. Decreasing the toe height would be harder since you would need to remove material between the toe piece mounting plate and the AFD mounting plate.

All this to say, if it passes the return to center test and there isn't any up and down play in your toe piece to boot interface you're probably as good as you're going to get with P18s and rubber soled boots, they were originally designed for solid plastic race boot soles after all...

[skier2265]

I am mounting Pivot 14s to accommodate 2 boot sizes: 285mm (Salomon X-Max) and 295mm (Tecnica Mach 1). I did a practice mount on a 2x4 at 290mm. Reading the thread, it seems that the appropriate forward pressure is a small gap between the boot and the heel cup. At 285mm, there is only a small fraction of the first notch shown. At 295mm, there is over 3/4 of the 3rd notch visible. Is that fine? Any concerns with being at the upper and lower limits of the bands? I know I'm being overly cautious...

[BC.]

What’s it look like/feel like stepped in/dildo up?

[skier2265]

Snaps in nicely, angled around 80 degrees or so. Seems to rest nicely on the boot heel lugs. No movement in the heel. However, I'm a Pivot newbie and even when I adjusted the heel piece to create more space between the boot and the heel cup, I couldn't really feel a difference.

[mr_pretzel]

Twist the heel back and forth with your hand. Shouldn’t move with a reasonable amount of pressure.
You can also put the ski on the ground, stand on it and pull up on the boot to see if the brakes move, play around with it until you’re right on the edge with no movement.

I’ve skied at both of those band placements and haven’t had any issues.

YMMV

[snowaddict91]

Twist the heel back and forth with your hand. Shouldn’t move with a reasonable amount of pressure.
You can also put the ski on the ground, stand on it and pull up on the boot to see if the brakes move, play around with it until you’re right on the edge with no movement.

I’ve skied at both of those band placements and haven’t had any issues.

YMMV

Solid advice here.

I've also skied with bindings adjusted out and in that far with zero issues.

[skier2265]

After testing it out:
standing on the 2x4, the brakes do not move when I pull on either boot.
When standing on the 2x4, I can wiggle the heel sideways a little with the X-Max (285) after a moderate amount of force. Interestingly, when I do the same thing with the Mach 1 (295), I can move it quite a bit more with less force. Even after adjusting the forward pressure (in both directions, including the boot heel lightly touching the heel cup), the heel piece can rotate quite a bit more with the Mach 1. it seems like like the X-Max seems to fit snugger, which is surprising to me since it's the smaller boot and I can't increase the forward pressure as much. I'm probably not going to keep the Mach 1's anyways - they don't fit me great (though I think there's a good chance I'll switch to a 295 boot at some point).

[BC.]

Snaps in nicely, angled around 80 degrees or so. Seems to rest nicely on the boot heel lugs. No movement in the heel. However, I'm a Pivot newbie and even when I adjusted the heel piece to create more space between the boot and the heel cup, I couldn't really feel a difference.

By looks of it...you are money....indicator looks to be right on w/both your boots/pics.

Twist test=no movement in dido or brakes...u are solid.

[mr_pretzel]

It’s all about the twist test. Using the method of seeing how much clearance there is between the heel and the boot doesn’t really work, because the adjustment doesn’t work on a horizontal plane, the boot will contact the heel cup at different forward pressures depending on where in the adjustment bands the dildo is. Sounds like your mach1 needs an extra turn or 2.

[skier2265]

bingo! Mach 1 needed a bunch of turns (moved to the middle of the 2nd notch), now it's testing well. Makes me wonder if I should mount for a smaller BSL, maybe 288mm or so.

[schindlerpiste]

It is a farce that Pivots do not have a fairly large adjustment range. I have a 305bsl. I took a pair of skis mounted with Pivots @315 -1 back of suggested line and adjusted the forward pressure, so that now they fit my 305bsl perfectly on the line. The important criteria is where the arms are resting compared to the three arm rings when the bindings are first mounted. (See pic 2). Forward pressure is good when the end of the white tab lines up with the two black tabs (See pic. 3)

For years, I have been under the impression that Pivots could be adjusted only 5-7mm. Now, I believe that there may be up to 17-20mm adjustment possible.

[jackattack]

It is a farce that Pivots do not have a fairly large adjustment range. I have a 305bsl. I took a pair of skis mounted with Pivots @315 -1 back of suggested line and adjusted the forward pressure, so that now they fit my 305bsl perfectly on the line. The important criteria is where the arms are resting compared to the three arm rings when the bindings are first mounted. (See pic 2). Forward pressure is good when the end of the white tab lines up with the two black tabs (See pic. 3)

you're right, 10mm is fucking generous.

[detrusor]

Glad it worked out!


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[pfluffenmeister]

Good looking skis.

[ZomblibulaX]

For years, I have been under the impression that Pivots could be adjusted only 5-7mm. Now, I believe that there may be up to 17-20mm adjustment possible.

At the back end of the adjustment range, you can start running in to things though. As you back the adjustment screws out, the angle of the adjustment arms closes up, so it can become difficult to get some boots in, and can prevent the heel from snapping up completely. You're not wrong, just something to keep an eye out for.

Quick note on the twist test for the dildo: you're not trying to eliminate lateral movement of the heel on the boot, just limit it. You should not be able to "lightly" move the heel side to side, but you should be able to still move it. It was explained to me that repeatedly moving within the elastic travel can cause the dildo to shift side to side, which can effect elastic travel and therefore retention in subsequent movements. So the dildo needs to be able to recenter, if its too tight it can increase the likelihood of prerelease.

[tdpdx]

you're not trying to eliminate lateral movement of the heel on the boot, just limit it. You should not be able to "lightly" move the heel side to side, but you should be able to still move it.

Read through this entire thread and still don't have a real sense of what lightly means in this context. Can someone who knows what they're doing take a video of the play in the dildo with forward pressure properly setup?

Following the various instructions in this thread now has my heel slid forward enough that the boot pushes the heel piece back a couple of mm before the dildo snaps up, and that doesn't seem right...

[Mustonen]

Read through this entire thread and still don't have a real sense of what lightly means in this context. Can someone who knows what they're doing take a video of the play in the dildo with forward pressure properly setup?

Following the various instructions in this thread now has my heel slid forward enough that the boot pushes the heel piece back a couple of mm before the dildo snaps up, and that doesn't seem right...

If, after reading this thread, you still can’t sort it out, you should have somebody else do it. Not trying to be mean or anything.... it’s not like those bindings are all that fiddly though.

[jackattack]

Read through this entire thread and still don't have a real sense of what lightly means in this context. Can someone who knows what they're doing take a video of the play in the dildo with forward pressure properly setup?

Following the various instructions in this thread now has my heel slid forward enough that the boot pushes the heel piece back a couple of mm before the dildo snaps up, and that doesn't seem right...

The dildo should be tight, but not so tight you can't move it; that could result in injury.

[tdpdx]

If, after reading this thread, you still can’t sort it out, you should have somebody else do it. Not trying to be mean or anything.... it’s not like those bindings are all that fiddly though.

I get where you're coming from, but I'm really just trying to clear things up for everyone. I appreciate the one guy who tried getting people to post pictures of where the heel of their boot is resting, but most people are just saying some variation of the same subjective thing over and over. If the binding isn't that fiddly, fine, but I see no reason why posting a video of your setup would be counter-productive.

[gwat]

I always go with the ‘snap in and yank up on your boot’ test (way back in post#6). It leaves no room for subjectiveness.

[tdpdx]

I always go with the ‘snap in and yank up on your boot’ test (way back in post#6). It leaves no room for subjectiveness.

This is what I'm going with for this weekend, thanks for the direction!

Pretty disappointing that Rossi hasn't improved the documentation on setting up the forward pressure over the years.

Also worth mentioning that in the vein of "mount your own fucking skis", the whole reason I ventured in here is that when I was checking out my skis last weekend I thought the heels on the pivots were awful loose. Following gwats guide had me tighten them about 2.5 turns from where the ski tech set them up.

[snowaddict91]

The good news is there is a fairly wide range of acceptability, so if you are off a little bit from perfect you *probably* won't die.

[Muggydude]

Heel should move back a mm or two when putting the boot down, before applying any real pressure. If you wiggle the dildo fore-aft, the boot heel shouldn’t move up or down really at all. Easy


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