P18 Pivot FKS forward pressure - ignore the indicator?

[XXX-er]

OK that makes sense when you look at the shop manual

adj so the screw is flush with the edge of the metal track

at first glance I thot it had something to do with the knurling on the screw

[J. Barron DeJong]

OK that makes sense when you look at the shop manual

adj so the screw is flush with the edge of the metal track

at first glance I thot it had something to do with the knurling on the screw

Full disclosure: I’ve never owned an STH, so there’s a not insignificant chance I’m wrong and you’re going to die.

I did reference the manual when helping my brother in law set up some skis for his kid, and kid is still alive. So there’s that at least.

[XXX-er]

I've never owned an STH either which is why I have been asking, but it made me DL the Salomon STH 14 shop manual. On the STH product they seem to line up the end of the screw with the end of the track which also puts knurled part of the screw half way out of the housing, also the boot toe returns to center so I'm happy that its good to go

[SnowMachine]

Point taken, but consider that 95% of the people riding pivots right now had the forward pressure setup by using the indicator

If you set Pivot's using the indicator you're doing it wrong. Just sayin'.

[SnowMachine]

27 years of skiing exclusively on metal turntables and never once have I looked at an indicator.
I’m shocked the indicator exists.
I do commonly see improper Pivot forward pressure in the liftlines. (Too much forward pressure is very obvious, the dildo does mot sit upright enough).
The bindings are apparently VERY forgiving when it comes to forward pressure, something that can’t be said for a lot of other bindings oit there.

I just saw it in the lift line yesterday. Two mogul kids standing side by side. One was correct. The other too tight.

[Dee Hubbs]

27 years of skiing exclusively on metal turntables and never once have I looked at an indicator.
I’m shocked the indicator exists.
I do commonly see improper Pivot forward pressure in the liftlines. (Too much forward pressure is very obvious, the dildo does mot sit upright enough).
The bindings are apparently VERY forgiving when it comes to forward pressure, something that can’t be said for a lot of other bindings oit there.

So now you can spot forward pressure just by the angle of the dildo? Previously when a fellow mag was looking for advice, I told him his forward pressure was wrong based on the angle of his dildo.
You called me out, and you were very adamant that I wouldn't be able to judge forward pressure based just on the angle of the dildo.
But then again I only have 25 years exclusively on Pivots.

[gwat]

Haha, all these pivot discussions (debates?) are getting hazy but IIRC you said his dildo was ‘TOO vertical’, which is not possible.
On the other hand, ‘not vertical enough’ is possible and generally happens with excessive forward pressure. And yes I see it all the time in the liftline. Or perhaps these people have an inch of ice on the bottoms of their boots. Either way, nobody is dying but it causes a reduction is elasticity, which nobody wants.

[Dee Hubbs]

Either way, nobody is dying but it causes a reduction is elasticity, which nobody wants.

I'm joking and having fun with it.
Not dick swinging, but I believe that I can feel if a pivot is set to strong with excessive forward pressure, the lack of elasticity is a sensation that can be felt while skiing.

[snowaddict91]

I also frequently see pivots in the lift line obviously set up wrong. Hell, I wasted a bunch of time on a pow day last year helping a friend of a friend search for a lost ski. After we found it I told him he needed to go have the shop check his forward pressure, it was immediately apparent.

Also, get this STH BS out of this thread please.

[XXX-er]

its called " thread drift " and was the only way to get the info after asking twice

[SnowMachine]

I also frequently see pivots in the lift line obviously set up wrong. Hell, I wasted a bunch of time on a pow day last year helping a friend of a friend search for a lost ski. After we found it I told him he needed to go have the shop check his forward pressure, it was immediately apparent.

Also, get this STH BS out of this thread please.

I've traded almost all of my Pivot's for STH's.

[stealurface831]

so i don't think mine is a forward pressure problem but i don't know where else to put this so here goes. mounting up some old 155 races. all good, no problem. adjust the fp on the first binding and all is well. second binding, however, has a ton of play on both sides where the adjustment arms connect to the dildo. went ahead and adjusted fp but there is no snap whatsoever when the heel engages and once it is engaged, i can move the dildo torsionally due to all the play.

just so i'm crystal clear, the play comes from the circled areas

do we think this is a product of the adjustment arms themselves being worn or is it that the housing around the arms that connects them to the dildo is worn? both? hard saying not knowing?

as i understand it, the rivet that holds the whole thing together is actually the terminal end of the u-shaped bar underneath the dildo. ergo, drilling that rivet out to replace the adjustment arms (of which i have brand new replacements) means fucking up that u-shaped bar. i suppose i could try to deform the rivet rather than drilling it to preserve that material to then re-rivet when reassembling. how bad an idea is that? has anyone done this shit before? anyone got a spare dildo?

[Core Shot]

. how bad an idea is that? has anyone done this shit before? anyone got a spare dildo?

You need a spare dildo?

[FloridaSnow]

so i don't think mine is a forward pressure problem but i don't know where else to put this so here goes. mounting up some old 155 races. all good, no problem. adjust the fp on the first binding and all is well. second binding, however, has a ton of play on both sides where the adjustment arms connect to the dildo. went ahead and adjusted fp but there is no snap whatsoever when the heel engages and once it is engaged, i can move the dildo torsionally due to all the play.

just so i'm crystal clear, the play comes from the circled areas

do we think this is a product of the adjustment arms themselves being worn or is it that the housing around the arms that connects them to the dildo is worn? both? hard saying not knowing?

as i understand it, the rivet that holds the whole thing together is actually the terminal end of the u-shaped bar underneath the dildo. ergo, drilling that rivet out to replace the adjustment arms (of which i have brand new replacements) means fucking up that u-shaped bar. i suppose i could try to deform the rivet rather than drilling it to preserve that material to then re-rivet when reassembling. how bad an idea is that? has anyone done this shit before? anyone got a spare dildo?

this guy removed the rivets with detailed pics.

https://www.instructables.com/Rossig...?amp_page=true

[GoldenBC]

So it seems like the pivot 2.0 has the same teats for forward pressure as the 1.0 but the 2.0 needs to be tighter to get the same results. Aka. When hovering the boot over the heel piece about to step in, I find the boot heel needs to rub on the heel piece by a few mm on the 1.0 and considerably more on the 2.0 (almost at the top of the round face).

Anyone else?

[stealurface831]

i ended up filing the edges of the rivets down just enough to remove the bar and left enough material to re-rivet when i put it all back together.

[halliday]

So it seems like the pivot 2.0 has the same teats for forward pressure as the 1.0 but the 2.0 needs to be tighter to get the same results. Aka. When hovering the boot over the heel piece about to step in, I find the boot heel needs to rub on the heel piece by a few mm on the 1.0 and considerably more on the 2.0 (almost at the top of the round face).

Anyone else?

Your boot heel need to rest on the heel holder portion (bad terminology?) and just make contact behind that. A few mm rub might be too much. Its easy to over do it with Pivot forward pressure. I'll post a video when I get home this weekend of how I set my Pivot heel pieces. I think the Pivot functions best when it is looser than you think. Ive had indicators that work well and some that don't but I always go for the feel of the dildo returning upright when pulled slightly back with my boot in the binding to know everything is good. It's a shame that there is no definitive set point for Pivots and it becomes about "feel". Crazy.

[Wes Mantooth]

So it seems like the pivot 2.0 has the same teats for forward pressure as the 1.0 but the 2.0 needs to be tighter to get the same results. Aka. When hovering the boot over the heel piece about to step in, I find the boot heel needs to rub on the heel piece by a few mm on the 1.0 and considerably more on the 2.0 (almost at the top of the round face).

Anyone else?

Seems to me the newer gen of pivot 1.0s need more heel contact when stepping in than the older fks/pivots. Point being it’s not fully consistent from my experience and the dildo play and brake movement when lifting the boot are more reliable indicators

[GoldenBC]

I use the stepping as a starting point and then confirm like you said. It sounds like this is consistent with your experience. I hadn’t noticed new 1.0s are similar.

[Wes Mantooth]

I use the stepping as a starting point and then confirm like you said. It sounds like this is consistent with your experience. I hadn’t noticed new 1.0s are similar.

I think we’re all stabbing in the dark to a certain extent. I’ve had decent luck convincing shops to do a release test for free for peace of mind

I also think re-greasing the toes every once in a while is similarly important. I’ve noticed newer pivots use a thinner grease and develop toe slop more quickly than older ones. I think overall pivot quality has decreased kinda like everything else in the world. Paint chips more easily, pole slots on the dildos get gouged away faster, and toes loosen up in less time

[The Iron Horse]

So it seems like the pivot 2.0 has the same teats for forward pressure as the 1.0 but the 2.0 needs to be tighter to get the same results. Aka. When hovering the boot over the heel piece about to step in, I find the boot heel needs to rub on the heel piece by a few mm on the 1.0 and considerably more on the 2.0 (almost at the top of the round face).

Anyone else?

I've experienced this as well. I rely on the "lift" test, and in order to get there with the 2.0, I was surprised at how much contact I have between the boot and the heel piece. Much more than with any of my 1.0 Pivots.

FWIW, I also have to say that I believe the fwd pressure indicator on the 2.0 might actually work. At least it seems to on my pair. For what I think is otherwise a disastrous rollout, and a half-assed upgrade, this might be a bright point. It actually seems to move with small adjustments to the arms. I'd love to see if others can confirm.

[GoldenBC]

It does seem to work. If you read the manual it has very different wording compared to the 1.0.

I’d say it’s a nice update. No more boot rub on the arms, more adjustment, better wear points on the dildo, didn’t fuck with what’s good.

Remember the last time they tried to update the pivot (px…). This is great compared to

[gaijin]

I’m an FKS/Pivot rookie

I was told that this forward pressure indicator is good to go.



But my left heel dildo doesn’t rise as high as my right when I click in. My right seems to max out, but left needs a bit of a tug from my hand to pull it all the way up— tight.

Never noticed it while skiing. The brakes do move a few mm’s on my bench, I doubt they move when standing on it. The dildo arms on the left ski were one driver turn looser than the right ski. Is that the cause?

I tightened the arms to match the right, but it still doesn’t click in the same. Seems odd.

Is this just the famed elasticity of pivots? I’ve read people say you don’t have to click all the way in to “be in.” I mean, yeah, I’m secure but I’d like a consistent delta. I’m also an STH boy who is used to “the clunk.” I’m also at the lowest din of my life— nine. Thinking I’ll go higher when I prerelease.

I didn’t notice any play while skiing, but I was skiing variable snow.

Interesting binding none-the-less. Now I get the “finicky as hell but once you get it dialed you’ll never go back.”

Feels odd posting this in my 48th season on skis. Proof of my naievete.

[halliday]

I’m an FKS/Pivot rookie

I was told that this forward pressure indicator is good to go.



But my left heel dildo doesn’t rise as high as my right when I click in. My right seems to max out, but left needs a bit of a tug from my hand to pull it all the way up— tight.

Never noticed it while skiing. The brakes do move a few mm’s on my bench, I doubt they move when standing on it. The dildo arms on the left ski were one driver turn tighter than the right ski. Is that the cause?

I tightened the arms to match the right, but it still doesn’t click in the same. Seems odd.

Is this just the famed elasticity of pivots? I’ve read people say you don’t have to click all the way in to “be in.” I mean, yeah, I’m secure but I’d like a consistent delta. I’m also an STH boy who is used to “the clunk.” I’m also at the lowest din of my life— nine. Thinking I’ll go higher when I prerelease.

I didn’t notice any play while skiing, but I was skiing variable snow.

Interesting binding none-the-less. Now I get the “finicky as hell but once you get it dialed you’ll never go back.”

Feels odd posting this in my 48th season on skis. Proof of my naievete.

You can't assume what you do to one binding will work for the other. Each Pivot is its own thing.

[SnowMachine]

I’m an FKS/Pivot rookie

I was told that this forward pressure indicator is good to go.



But my left heel dildo doesn’t rise as high as my right when I click in. My right seems to max out, but left needs a bit of a tug from my hand to pull it all the way up— tight.

Never noticed it while skiing. The brakes do move a few mm’s on my bench, I doubt they move when standing on it. The dildo arms on the left ski were one driver turn looser than the right ski. Is that the cause?

I tightened the arms to match the right, but it still doesn’t click in the same. Seems odd.

Is this just the famed elasticity of pivots? I’ve read people say you don’t have to click all the way in to “be in.” I mean, yeah, I’m secure but I’d like a consistent delta. I’m also an STH boy who is used to “the clunk.” I’m also at the lowest din of my life— nine. Thinking I’ll go higher when I prerelease.

I didn’t notice any play while skiing, but I was skiing variable snow.

Interesting binding none-the-less. Now I get the “finicky as hell but once you get it dialed you’ll never go back.”

Feels odd posting this in my 48th season on skis. Proof of my naievete.

Yo Gaijin. There is no science to setting up the Pivot. Just feels. If your dildos aren't even or coming all the way up, your FP is wrong (too tight). Back up a few clicks and try it again. You want to be in the zone where the dildo goes all the way up, but if you push forward hard on the cuff of the boot that the brake arms don't drop. The dildos should snap all the way up cleanly when you step in.

Don't feel bad. I've had Pivots mounted by several shops that have gotten it wrong. Like, really fucking wrong..... The FP indicator is a joke. Ignore it altogether.

Edit to add: they dont need to be even. Set them up to work. It may drive your OCD crazy if you're like me.

Laughing at my post from a year ago. I can easily run Pivots one DIN point lower that STH. I've NEVER had an instance with Pivots where I thought I prereleased. I've had several with STH's. I've moved all of my skis back to P15's with one 14 in there for science. I did like the solid step in of the STH.