Skier Rides Avy Onto CO Hwy, Buried, Survives

[adrenalated]

The bolded language seems like an argument for a fan-based pack in terms of being able to practice more. You hear people talk about it, but here's a dude who was wearing an airbag pack (granted, one he had just borrowed from a friend), was caught in a slide, didn't deploy it, and believes in hindsight that he only could have deployed it in the necessary time window of his incident if he had regularly practiced. Some food for thought.

You can practice with some non-fan packs by removing the cartridge. The trigger on the Mammut, for example, can be activated with or without a cartridge and has the same feel either way.

[LightRanger]

Gotcha. Good point. I suppose you don't need to actually inflate the bag to do drills.

[summit]

The bolded language seems like an argument for a fan-based pack in terms of being able to practice more. You hear people talk about it, but here's a dude who was wearing an airbag pack (granted, one he had just borrowed from a friend), was caught in a slide, didn't deploy it, and believes in hindsight that he only could have deployed it in the necessary time window of his incident if he had regularly practiced. Some food for thought.

I think they are two disconnected thoughts... muscle memory makes sense to build.

But I don't know that he is convinced that the pack would have ACTUALLY helped him. I'm certainly not in this situation: dumped onto road + debris dumps on top = no turbulent flow = no vertical sorting
In fact, in this rare instance, had he been sorted early, he might have ended up at the front of the flow and been dumped on the highway sooner with less snow to cushion him from the pavement and more snow dumped on top of him. The rare slide where an airbag would result in a deeper burial.

[PNWbrit]

I suppose you don't need to actually inflate the bag to do drills.

I can see why using a borrowed one. Maybe for first time? Or maybe just infrequently? It might have not been his first reaction to pull the trigger?

[LightRanger]

Yeah, I don't think he necessarily is convinced of that either. But I do suspect he included the thought process on that for our edification. Interesting point on the lack of potential Brazil nut effect in this one. Though if you regularly ride with an airbag pack (I don't, yet), I would think that the goal is to get the muscle memory for deployment down to as little time as possible, and you're not going to be calculating potential Brazil nut effects while desperately trying to pull the trigger.

[LightRanger]

I can see why using a borrowed one. Maybe for first time? Or maybe just infrequently? It might have not been his first reaction to pull the trigger?

That's a good point too. Though I imagine it was more just the lack of muscle memory/forgetfulness rather than thinking maybe the slide wasn't serious enough to warrant forcing his buddy to refill the canister. (I think that was your point?)

[PNWbrit]

the slide wasn't serious enough to warrant forcing his buddy to refill the canister. (I think that was your point?)

Nope not my point at all?

He wasn't used to wearing one. And at critical moment he forgot he was.

it was more just the lack of muscle memory/forgetfulness

[LightRanger]

Oh. Yes. For sure. I sort of made that point as an aside in parentheses above, but I see now that I wasn't being clear.

[Mofro261]

Just read this. Props to the author about detailing his thought processes. I found that very helpful in terms of understanding what they did wrong and trying to take things away from his write-up. This stuff was particularly useful...



The bolded language seems like an argument for a fan-based pack in terms of being able to practice more. You hear people talk about it, but here's a dude who was wearing an airbag pack (granted, one he had just borrowed from a friend), was caught in a slide, didn't deploy it, and believes in hindsight that he only could have deployed it in the necessary time window of his incident if he had regularly practiced. Some food for thought.

In this case I really don't think the air bag would have helped much anyway- he was carried a short distant and off a drop into the deposition zone face down. The bag should help to float you to the top when the slide is moving but once you come to rest, the bag wont elevate you above the debris pounding down around and on you.

[LightRanger]

In this case I really don't think the air bag would have helped much anyway- he was carried a short distant and off a drop into the deposition zone face down. The bag should help to float you to the top when the slide is moving but once you come to rest, the bag wont elevate you above the debris pounding down around and on you.

Yeah. That makes sense. Summit made that point above too. I'd still be curious though, in the case of the BD bag where it auto-deflates after a set amount of time to create an air pocket if it would have helped. Just spitballing. Obviously no way to be sure.

[wyeaster]

i had no idea the bags were so noisy

[Mofro261]

i had no idea the bags were so noisy

it's not the bag, its the avalung that is noisy- sounds like a duck call when you breathe through it.

[wyeaster]

oh, duh. thx. i thought the bag was inflating in sections or something, which didn't seem desirable.

[adrenalated]

Airbags are pretty loud when you inflate them though.

Agree the airbag probably wouldn't have helped in this accident even if it was deployed.

However, if we can get away from TGR gear-dorkery for a second, the #1 thing that could have prevented this accident, as the author notes, is slapping skins on and going up and around. I think most of us have probably made this mistake and skied some small questionable slope just to get down to the road/trailhead/whatever. I've gotten away with some shit on Loveland and Berthoud Passes, for sure.

[I've seen black diamonds!]

Yeah. That makes sense. Summit made that point above too. I'd still be curious though, in the case of the BD bag where it auto-deflates after a set amount of time to create an air pocket if it would have helped. Just spitballing. Obviously no way to be sure.

Mammut packs are also designed to slowly "leak" for the same reason. Not sure if other brands work this way as well.

I'm going to practice triggering my pack while skiing, without the canister connected, a bunch of times. I feel like a dummy for not having done this yet.

[covert]

I've been commenting way too much in The Slide Zone recently, but at the risk of becoming a bore, and no disrespect meant, I'd say fuck the fucking airbags and our goddamn muscle memory. Maybe spend 10 minutes per tour debriefing on what did not go wrong but could have. That would be time better spent IMHO.

[whipski]

Classic textbook example of fuzzy thinking. Agree that if a slope has you biting the avalung perhaps skins are a better option.

[Eastcoastdan]

I've been commenting way too much in The Slide Zone recently, but at the risk of becoming a bore, and no disrespect meant, I'd say fuck the fucking airbags and our goddamn muscle memory. Maybe spend 10 minutes per tour debriefing on what did not go wrong but could have. That would be time better spent IMHO.

Amen brother

[PNWbrit]

I've been commenting way too much in The Slide Zone recently.

Actually can you comment more.

Please.

[adrenalated]

Actually can you comment more.

Please.

X2

[covert]

Ha, 10/4. I read an article the other day that says smarter people swear more. It sure makes me feel smarter, so that's nice.

[summit]

Ha, 10/4. I read an article the other day that says smarter people swear more. It sure makes me feel smarter, so that's nice.

I read one that said more honest people swear more.
https://phys.org/news/2017-01-links-honesty.html

[LightRanger]

^^^ x3

To be clear on my musing about the pack above. The first thing I took away from this was his comment adrenalated highlighted re hiking back up and out of danger. But given my recent thinking on buying a BD airbag pack, I found his comment on practicing interesting as well and wanted to highlight it.

[LeeLau]

Just read this. A post-incident story well told.

The focus on self-reflection and thought processes (heuristics) is particularly useful.

[covert]

^^^ x3

To be clear on my musing about the pack above. The first thing I took away from this was his comment adrenalated highlighted re hiking back up and out of danger. But given my recent thinking on buying a BD airbag pack, I found his comment on practicing interesting as well and wanted to highlight it.

I don't mean to shit on the idea of practicing with our gear. It just makes me a little crazy when we get distracted by the shiny things in life.