Climate Change

[Bunion 2020]

Sounds like it was done when the complex was built, which is reasonable. I'm guessing it's a pretty swanky complex, making the cost of drilling, piping etc a relatively percentage of each unit.

For the past 8-10 years Geo-thermal has been subsidized though tax credits.

In August 2022, the tax credit for geothermal heat pump installations was extended through 2034. Geothermal equipment that uses the stored solar energy from the ground for heating and cooling and that meets ENERGY STAR requirements at the time of installation is eligible for the tax credit.

I see a lot of these systems installed on large Mansions owned by the very wealthy who can make use of a 1-1 tax credit to offset the cost of building yet another monster home that will be lived in maybe 6 weeks a year.

[Bunion 2020]

That said, since power grids are complicated, maybe that author has the best tactic - use misunderstanding to drive outrage against fossil plants and in favor of "cheaper" green plants. Which is probably fine given the fossil plants are only cheap because they freeride by dumping their pollution.

NWE has a bunch of Hydro-power available to cover peak demands. Approx. 32% of their power comes from Hydro.

[neufox47]

“Conservatives” continue to try to block renewables use and “capitalists” refuse to price in the cost of pollution, meanwhile:

“November 2023 was the warmest November on record globally, with an average surface air temperature of 14.22°C, 0.85°C above the 1991-2020 average for November and 0.32°C above the temperature of the previous warmest November, in 2020. The global temperature anomaly for November 2023 was on a par with October 2023, and only lower than the September 2023 anomaly of 0.93°C. The month as a whole was about 1.75°C warmer than an estimate of the November average for 1850-1900, the designated pre-industrial reference period.

For the calendar year to date, January to November, the global mean temperature for 2023 is the highest on record, 1.46°C above the 1850-1900 pre-industrial average, and 0.13°C higher than the eleven-month average for 2016, currently the warmest calendar year on record. European temperatures varied in November 2023 from much below the 1991-2020 average over central Norway and Sweden to much above average over the far southeast of the continent. The average sea surface temperature for November over 60°S–60°N was the highest on record for November at 0.25°C warmer than the second warmest November, in 2015. The El Niño event continued in the equatorial Pacific, with anomalies remaining lower than those reached at this time of year in the 2015 event.”

November 2023 was the warmest November on record globally, with an average surface air temperature of 14.22°C, 0.85°C above the 1991-2020 average for November and 0.32°C above the temperature of the previous warmest November, in 2020. The global temperature anomaly for November 2023 was on a par with October 2023, and only lower than the September 2023 anomaly of 0.93°C. The month as a whole was about 1.75°C warmer than an estimate of the November average for 1850-1900, the designated pre-industrial reference period.”

https://climate.copernicus.eu/surfac...-november-2023

Our children and grandchildren will look back and wonder how we were so stupid and selfish.


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[AirheadD8]

That pretty much sums up why the transition ain’t coming.

The upside is once the ground loop is installed it’s got a 50yr lifespan. The indoor unit is pretty much plug and play when it wears out in 20yrs .
The manufacturers have gotten better with efficiency by using variable speed loop pumps, not moving more water than necessary.

[xyz]

The upside is once the ground loop is installed it’s got a 50yr lifespan. The indoor unit is pretty much plug and play when it wears out in 20yrs .
The manufacturers have gotten better with efficiency by using variable speed loop pumps, not moving more water than necessary.

I was referring to the entire planet’s transition to low emission.

Anyway, my surface until lasted 19 years. The boreholes loops all good, we just replaced the circulating fluid.

[fomofo]

You have to start somewhere, you have to start sometime. The longer we wait, the more painful, i.e. expensive, it will be.

[Trackhead]

Great video. Maybe the next video can include where the raw materials will come from for all the batteries, and the recycling of said batteries.

[Iwantmy2dollars]

“Conservatives” continue to try to block renewables use and “capitalists” refuse to price in the cost of pollution, meanwhile:

“November 2023 was the warmest November on record globally, with an average surface air temperature of 14.22°C, 0.85°C above the 1991-2020 average for November and 0.32°C above the temperature of the previous warmest November, in 2020. The global temperature anomaly for November 2023 was on a par with October 2023, and only lower than the September 2023 anomaly of 0.93°C. The month as a whole was about 1.75°C warmer than an estimate of the November average for 1850-1900, the designated pre-industrial reference period.

For the calendar year to date, January to November, the global mean temperature for 2023 is the highest on record, 1.46°C above the 1850-1900 pre-industrial average, and 0.13°C higher than the eleven-month average for 2016, currently the warmest calendar year on record. European temperatures varied in November 2023 from much below the 1991-2020 average over central Norway and Sweden to much above average over the far southeast of the continent. The average sea surface temperature for November over 60°S–60°N was the highest on record for November at 0.25°C warmer than the second warmest November, in 2015. The El Niño event continued in the equatorial Pacific, with anomalies remaining lower than those reached at this time of year in the 2015 event.”

November 2023 was the warmest November on record globally, with an average surface air temperature of 14.22°C, 0.85°C above the 1991-2020 average for November and 0.32°C above the temperature of the previous warmest November, in 2020. The global temperature anomaly for November 2023 was on a par with October 2023, and only lower than the September 2023 anomaly of 0.93°C. The month as a whole was about 1.75°C warmer than an estimate of the November average for 1850-1900, the designated pre-industrial reference period.”

https://climate.copernicus.eu/surfac...-november-2023

Our children and grandchildren will look back and wonder how we were so stupid and selfish.


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Some of us have been wondering (angry, pissed, astounded) for more than 2 decades. We should all have been rowing the same direction on this a long time ago. And yet just last week - "drill drill drill , day one".... It's pathetic insanity.

These people smile as they giddily sh-t their own bed (all our beds in reality) and wallow in it. People are amazingly uncaring and selfish. Soon the cost will be untenable. And they will cast blame it on immigrants, Sun spots, sea monsters, anyplace except where it belongs

[LongShortLong]

NWE has a bunch of Hydro-power available to cover peak demands. Approx. 32% of their power comes from Hydro.

Sounds great. Replace those coal plants with something green.

[k2skier112]

Great video. Maybe the next video can include where the raw materials will come from for all the batteries, and the recycling of said batteries.

Are you lazy or being obtuse?!

https://ndep.nv.gov/land/thacker-pass-project

https://search.earth911.com/?what=Lithium-ion+Batteries

[neufox47]

Some of us have been wondering (angry, pissed, astounded) for more than 2 decades. We should all have been rowing the same direction on this a long time ago. And yet just last week - "drill drill drill , day one".... It's pathetic insanity.

These people smile as they giddily sh-t their own bed (all our beds in reality) and wallow in it. People are amazingly uncaring and selfish. Soon the cost will be untenable. And they will cast blame it on immigrants, Sun spots, sea monsters, anyplace except where it belongs

It’s wild reading the comments on some of the denier sites. Drroyspencer.com is a good example, lots of educated deniers on that site, it’s not your run of the mill MAGA morons. But they currently have convinced themselves that the warming we are seeing is due to “something else” and the world will start cooling soon. These same people were crowing that the warming had paused from 98-14.

[Trackhead]

Are you lazy or being obtuse?!

https://ndep.nv.gov/land/thacker-pass-project

https://search.earth911.com/?what=Lithium-ion+Batteries

Both. Just waiting for someone in this thread with all the answers and a crystal ball to post links, or a media giant to produce a video.

Lithium is not the only issue, cobalt mining is another, currently fraught with human rights/ethical complications. Recycling automotive lithium batteries is complex, dangerous, and nuanced. It’s going to be an issue.

[k2skier112]

Both. Just waiting for someone in this thread with all the answers and a crystal ball to post links, or a media giant to produce a video.

Lithium is not the only issue, cobalt mining is another, currently fraught with human rights/ethical complications. Recycling automotive lithium batteries is complex, dangerous, and nuanced. It’s going to be an issue.

There's challenges with any new technology

You can be part of the problem or solution

The oil companies are resisting change at all costs. That's why biased media talks like xyz

[xyz]

There's challenges with any new technology

You can be part of the problem or solution

The oil companies are resisting change at all costs. That's why biased media talks like xyz

Of course oil companies are resisting change at all costs. Oil production is their sole mandate. Expecting them to change is like expecting Apple to cancel the iPhone.

[Iwantmy2dollars]

Of course oil companies are resisting change at all costs. Oil production is their sole mandate. Expecting them to change is like expecting Apple to cancel the iPhone.

That's ridiculous. When the cigarette execs all publicly denied a link between smoking and cancer, that was what we should expect? These guys have known for decades. They are all criminals, worse than the cigarette guys . They should not be allowed to get away with it

When it's discovered a product or behavior, is proven to be cause irreparable harm, that knowledge should lead to action. Not - they're making money so don't expect any response.... Especially an existential threat that affects every living thing on earth

[Trackhead]

There's challenges with any new technology

You can be part of the problem or solution

Of course, but discussing and anticipating problems shouldn't be off limits, should it?

[muted reborn]

Both. Just waiting for someone in this thread with all the answers and a crystal ball to post links, or a media giant to produce a video.

Lithium is not the only issue, cobalt mining is another, currently fraught with human rights/ethical complications. Recycling automotive lithium batteries is complex, dangerous, and nuanced. It’s going to be an issue.

There is a new controversy brewing here about new lithium mines in and around the Colorado/Green River: https://www.ksl.com/article/50794124...lp-us-go-green

might be paywalled?: https://www.sltrib.com/news/environm...-about-go-big/

[LongShortLong]

Of course, but discussing and anticipating problems shouldn't be off limits, should it?

Sure. There's this thing I've noticed about anticipated problems. Usually someone was doing research about it 20+ years ago, and there were startups starting 10+ years ago to sell solutions. E.g. I don't know shit about battery recycling, but I stumbled across a story about a small company with truly massive expansion plans, who aims to recover the battery materials. Tesla's also yapped about re-using old batteries in their grid storage division. Seems likely a knowledgeable person would cite more than two examples on the planet. Related, most all the companies building cars are working to reduce costs - that means using less of critical/expensive resources. So, the green mantra is covered - reduce, reuse, recycle.

As for developing new mineral sources, we happen to have a global, diverse, and efficient economy. I'm confident capital will be appropriately directed to new projects and meet any anticipated demand.

[LongShortLong]

Here's a pretty good video I saw recently about one lithium mining company's prospect (Thacker Pass). She mentions a few other projects, so I feel there must be dozens or hundreds of companies working on lithium projects. Looks like this company has a solid plan to produce a large amount of lithium. Video quality is so-so, content is excellent. Skip ahead at the start 8 or 10 minutes.

[Trackhead]

Sure. There's this thing I've noticed about anticipated problems. Usually someone was doing research about it 20+ years ago, and there were startups starting 10+ years ago to sell solutions. E.g. I don't know shit about battery recycling, but I stumbled across a story about a small company with truly massive expansion plans, who aims to recover the battery materials. Tesla's also yapped about re-using old batteries in their grid storage division. Seems likely a knowledgeable person would cite more than two examples on the planet. Related, most all the companies building cars are working to reduce costs - that means using less of critical/expensive resources. So, the green mantra is covered - reduce, reuse, recycle.

As for developing new mineral sources, we happen to have a global, diverse, and efficient economy. I'm confident capital will be appropriately directed to new projects and meet any anticipated demand.

The little bit I've researched there are challenges as all batteries are proprietary with different construction methods, obviously. So each battery has individual challenges. Obviously humans are advanced enough that we can easily overcome there, but I wonder about cost vs. benefit. Will private companies be able to recycle these batteries, is there a financial incentive? That's the nuance, in my opinion. Perhaps if lithium/cobalt/other materials are $$ enough that will drive the recycling market enough to make it functional.

[Trackhead]

There is a new controversy brewing here about new lithium mines in and around the Colorado/Green River: https://www.ksl.com/article/50794124...lp-us-go-green

might be paywalled?: https://www.sltrib.com/news/environm...-about-go-big/

then flushes the lithium free with fresh Colorado River water, according to information Anson CEO Bruce Richardson presented to Utah lawmakers last month. Wastewater will get injected back underground.]

EV vehicles are the future. But I think most arguments are only against fossil fuels, without consideration given to the potential problems with wide spread EV adoption. Just like "big oil" is dishonest, I have a hard time thinking the mining industry is any more trustworthy. In fact, they have a long track record of being anything but.

Electric vehicles are hardly a utopian solution. Better than internal combustion, I guess in 50 years we might know the answer.

[skaredshtles]

Of course, but discussing and anticipating problems shouldn't be off limits, should it?

I read your original response as very dismissive, which is not particularly useful if you really want to discuss issues.

Perhaps you didn't mean it as such, but that sure is how I read it.

[skaredshtles]

EV vehicles are the future. But I think most arguments are only against fossil fuels, without consideration given to the potential problems with wide spread EV adoption. Just like "big oil" is dishonest, I have a hard time thinking the mining industry is any more trustworthy. In fact, they have a long track record of being anything but.

Electric vehicles are hardly a utopian solution. Better than internal combustion, I guess in 50 years we might know the answer.

I think that mass-transit is the future... it's just a matter of how long it takes the U.S. to realize it.

[LegoSkier]

Not sure if this has been posted here but apparently the Salton Sea has a shit ton of lithium under it.
https://www.energy.gov/eere/articles...-rich-domestic

https://www.politico.com/newsletters...thium-00120466

Plus you can get at it as a by-product of geothermal energy production.
I looked into who owns the current production (I wanted to get in on that action!) and Berkshire Hathaway currently owns the majority of the generation (and hence potential extraction) down there. So yeah, some deep pockets there.

[Trackhead]

I read your original response as very dismissive, which is not particularly useful if you really want to discuss issues.

Perhaps you didn't mean it as such, but that sure is how I read it.

It certainly wouldn't be classified as productive, I agree. But I do question the downstream, yet to be realized implications, of wide spread adoption of EV.