Climate Change

[Redsmurfer]

It always blows my mind that people somehow think we can engineer our way out of this. Even if we discovered a magic tech now, it could not be scaled up in time to avoid the worst impacts. Climate change has momentum and feed back loops that cannot be reversed quickly (think permafrost carbon sequestration and likely release). Maybe if humans somehow decide climate change is a priority then maybe we could see some reversal in a few generations. By that time I would expect to see significant collapses of many of the earth's key ecosystems, a significant drop in bio-diversity as well as mass human migration to avoid famine, war, drought, and adverse heat impacts (just starting to happen now).

I believe that the only real way to have a significant impact within my life time, say 30 years, is for a huge sudden change in the 1 st world's standard of living, mobility, and diet as well as total governmental and corporate buy in. None of those is likely to happen until it is too late. Hell, 1/2 of America still thinks the orange, fascist, buffoon would be a good leader, we're fucking doomed. Enjoy it now (burgers, big trucks, exotic surf safaris, and European vacations) for we will be one of last generations to enjoy it for a while.

[muted reborn]

as well as mass human migration to avoid famine, war, drought, and adverse heat impacts (just starting to happen now).

Damn Ikoners....

[Trackhead]

Yeah, I agree with this sentiment, Trackhead. The media likes to portray everything that happens in the natural world right now as a product of climate change, and the reality is significantly more nuanced. Climate change is a very really threat, but it's not doing anyone any favors to overhype it. That's just more potential ammo for the deniers.

No doubt the glacier is in rapid retreat. In the short time we lived there it was obvious year over year, alarming and sad. But, these events occur all over Alaska and elsewhere. Right now the conditions on the Mendenhall are more prone to it due to the retreat of an adjacent smaller glacier creating a pooling effect.

But yeah, every natural "disaster" these days is always attributable to global warming events, even when some are not. Watch someone predictably put words in my mouth.........

[Core Shot]

This almost deserves its own thread. I was just reading last week about 1816
The year without a summer they call it.
reports are of frost in New England and Europe in June. Massive crop loss etc.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Year_Without_a_Summer


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1257_Samalas_eruption

I’m too old not to have known about this.

Sooooo. Let’s get some volcanic action to get the skiing going. It’s too hot this summer.

[altacoup]

Kinda begs the question why people would build in a place threatened by a "regular" disaster such as that?

You mean like the entire state of Florida?

[The SnowShow]

It always blows my mind that people somehow think we can engineer our way out of this. Even if we discovered a magic tech now, it could not be scaled up in time to avoid the worst impacts. Climate change has momentum and feed back loops that cannot be reversed quickly (think permafrost carbon sequestration and likely release). Maybe if humans somehow decide climate change is a priority then maybe we could see some reversal in a few generations. By that time I would expect to see significant collapses of many of the earth's key ecosystems, a significant drop in bio-diversity as well as mass human migration to avoid famine, war, drought, and adverse heat impacts (just starting to happen now).

I believe that the only real way to have a significant impact within my life time, say 30 years, is for a huge sudden change in the 1 st world's standard of living, mobility, and diet as well as total governmental and corporate buy in. None of those is likely to happen until it is too late. Hell, 1/2 of America still thinks the orange, fascist, buffoon would be a good leader, we're fucking doomed. Enjoy it now (burgers, big trucks, exotic surf safaris, and European vacations) for we will be one of last generations to enjoy it for a while.

Yeah, I still see people stating things like:

“this summer is the coldest in _____ city, what the hell is the media talking about? Hottest July on record?’ It’s all fear mongering and all a big nothing.”

“They’ve been saying that for years. Back in the 2000s, they said we’d be burned up by now”

Fucking mind boggling how small people’s world view is. We are so fucked and it’s so depressing.

[skaredshtles]

You mean like the entire state of Florida?

That's *exactly* what I mean.

[SumJongGuy]

Or, maybe it's both the media jumping on the alarmist hype.. AND things are getting worse faster than most of us realistically expected and we're FUCKED. It could be both..

[altacoup]

It always blows my mind that people somehow think we can engineer our way out of this. Even if we discovered a magic tech now, it could not be scaled up in time to avoid the worst impacts. Climate change has momentum and feed back loops that cannot be reversed quickly (think permafrost carbon sequestration and likely release). Maybe if humans somehow decide climate change is a priority then maybe we could see some reversal in a few generations. By that time I would expect to see significant collapses of many of the earth's key ecosystems, a significant drop in bio-diversity as well as mass human migration to avoid famine, war, drought, and adverse heat impacts (just starting to happen now).

I believe that the only real way to have a significant impact within my life time, say 30 years, is for a huge sudden change in the 1 st world's standard of living, mobility, and diet as well as total governmental and corporate buy in. None of those is likely to happen until it is too late. Hell, 1/2 of America still thinks the orange, fascist, buffoon would be a good leader, we're fucking doomed. Enjoy it now (burgers, big trucks, exotic surf safaris, and European vacations) for we will be one of last generations to enjoy it for a while.

Well as you stated there’s zero chance of people regressing in their wants. And those not in the 1st world are also looking to improve their lot. So advancing tech is pretty much our only way out. Wind and solar are the cheapest form of electricity currently on the market, but utilities feel they need to continue to use their current generation methods to pay them off. We went from the wright brothers to super sonic flight in 50 years. How? Massive government investment. The climate change issue is largely political and has been since scientists started to alert the world,to the issue. Livermore just repeated it’s fusion test and the output was greater than before. Of course it was minimal energy output, but remember the Wright brothers flew a few hundred yards. There’s way to many people out there throwing up there hands because the solutions aren’t perfect. It’s going to take everything on the table to solve the issue (renewables, nuclear, lifestyle changes, and new technologies) but the key is we need to invest on a governmental scale. Private business is too short sighted to pull the load. And if we could just get the boomers out of the way of progress. A generation handed the golden ticket that has continuously voted to fuck everything up.


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[old goat]

Kinda begs the question why people would build in a place threatened by a "regular" disaster such as that?

You mean the planet Earth?

[old goat]

These people would sacrifice the future of their children for the pleasure of owning the libs.
https://wapo.st/3rZA1iW
Maybe they'd prefer oil rigs? In any case, opposition will soon wash away, along with the beach and the houses.

[bodywhomper]

That flood disaster in Juneau. Development was probably allowed because it was outside the boundaries of the FEMA-established floodplain. I don’t know if the borough has regs in-place for protecting those developed properties from erosion due to that kind of event.

[SumJongGuy]

I guess that's "The Situation" for renewables..

[Trackhead]

That flood disaster in Juneau. Development was probably allowed because it was outside the boundaries of the FEMA-established floodplain. I don’t know if the borough has regs in-place for protecting those developed properties from erosion due to that kind of event.

There's a sharp curve downriver of this incident that looks like trouble coming for homeowners. I think it's up to the homeowner, some have mitigation, others do not.

[bodywhomper]

There's a sharp curve downriver of this incident that looks like trouble coming for homeowners. I think it's up to the homeowner, some have mitigation, others do not.

Yeah. I’ve read/seen there’s a mild ox bow configuration to the river there. Good point about whether it’s homeowner responsibility or municipal code. Big riprap ain’t cheap. Sucks to lose part of your property or your home. It’d be interesting to understand what that river would do in absence of home and back protections in that area. The videos of the larger trees falling into the river is interesting. Curious of their age, 50-70 years?

[bodywhomper]

Dp

[Trackhead]

The lower river oxbow busted through about 2018…..

[bodywhomper]

As they do . Lots of damage?

[Trackhead]

None significant just a walking trail

[bodywhomper]

Ideally, that’s the type of land use you put in those sort of areas.

I recently read that the state of CA’s recent-ish catastrophic flood planning/modeling did not consider the modeled ARKStorm, which is basically the known large Central Valley flood that occurs every couple hundred years.

[k2skier112]

Here's an article from Canucistan

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/art...lear%20weapons.

Uranium mining has widespread effects, contaminating the environment with radioactive dust, radon gas, water-borne toxins, and increased levels of background radiation.

Uranium mining is the first step in the generation of both nuclear power and nuclear weapons. Nuclear power plants produce routine radioactive emissions in air and water, produce nuclear waste, and create conditions for disasters similar to Chernobyl and Fukushima.

[Bunion 2020]

There was a piece on CBS last night about the future of undersea mining, especially for minerals used in battery tech.

https://www.cbs.com/shows/video/eb69...BMFG68rw5DeKv/

While it sounds promising the oceans are a fragile place.

[BFD]

That flood disaster in Juneau. Development was probably allowed because it was outside the boundaries of the FEMA-established floodplain. I don’t know if the borough has regs in-place for protecting those developed properties from erosion due to that kind of event.

Crazy amount of politics involving the Mendenhall. People were dumping cars in the river to try and prevent flooding since they started building there. In 1971 the borough and state asked the army corps to study the river to address flooding. The army corps came up with a standard project flood of 47,000 CFS. I think this event hit 26,000. Not sure when the First FEMA maps were produced. They did see continual revisions. Each time the public and borough challenged the revisions as people did not like the idea of insurance going up. Lisa Murkowski sponsored the Homeowners Flood Insurance Affordability Act of 2014. This was response to Juneau claiming the new maps were not accurate and causing financial harm to homeowners. After the jökulhlaups started in 2011 the borough worked with the feds to bring in money for mitigation. The homeowners rejected the offer. They did not like the costs they were asked to share. would be interesting to know what FEMA revisions were objected to and if those homes were affected by this flood. Not living in Juneau and not having followed this issue I can only offer an opinion. Not much flat, easy buildable ground in the area. The Juneau borough was not going to let it go undeveloped.

[BCMtnHound]

Here's an article from Canucistan

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/art...lear%20weapons.

Uranium mining has widespread effects, contaminating the environment with radioactive dust, radon gas, water-borne toxins, and increased levels of background radiation.

Uranium mining is the first step in the generation of both nuclear power and nuclear weapons. Nuclear power plants produce routine radioactive emissions in air and water, produce nuclear waste, and create conditions for disasters similar to Chernobyl and Fukushima.

While not disputing the findings of that paper, these effects are true of most mining in Canada (and most of the rest of the world to some degree or other). We have a defunct uranium mine near to town here, and we were planning road and forestry development within the boundaries of the claim. Lots of funky coloured soil and leaching. Domestic water use in nearby creeks (for much of the last 100yrs). We brought in the mining and geology experts to assist in designing the mitigation for any earthworks as park of our development. We stayed away from a couple identified deposits/tailings areas, made consideration for surface drainage, and general health procedures for workers (from equipment operators to tree planters).
The one thing that the experts kind of chided us on is that we should be following these protocols where ever we are exposing the soil, anywhere in the country. There is so many micro deposits not identified for claim or extraction that one would never know if they are digging through the nasty. Acid rock and leaching is something we manage in our road building efforts all the time, and near impossible to detect prior to opening the rock. Big money to mitigate the impacts once it is exposed however.

So the takeaway is that the risks identified in the paper are much more widespread than just a uranium mine. Sure opening concentrated deposits will have impacts, but the risk remains in any significant earthworks. Radon especially is one of those devils that is amazingly widespread, and most homes and businesses have done little to mitigate, especially older structures. And wash your hands and veggies well whenever digging in the backyard even.

[k2skier112]

While not disputing the findings of that paper, these effects are true of most mining in Canada (and most of the rest of the world to some degree or other). We have a defunct uranium mine near to town here, and we were planning road and forestry development within the boundaries of the claim. Lots of funky coloured soil and leaching. Domestic water use in nearby creeks (for much of the last 100yrs). We brought in the mining and geology experts to assist in designing the mitigation for any earthworks as park of our development. We stayed away from a couple identified deposits/tailings areas, made consideration for surface drainage, and general health procedures for workers (from equipment operators to tree planters).
The one thing that the experts kind of chided us on is that we should be following these protocols where ever we are exposing the soil, anywhere in the country. There is so many micro deposits not identified for claim or extraction that one would never know if they are digging through the nasty. Acid rock and leaching is something we manage in our road building efforts all the time, and near impossible to detect prior to opening the rock. Big money to mitigate the impacts once it is exposed however.

So the takeaway is that the risks identified in the paper are much more widespread than just a uranium mine. Sure opening concentrated deposits will have impacts, but the risk remains in any significant earthworks. Radon especially is one of those devils that is amazingly widespread, and most homes and businesses have done little to mitigate, especially older structures. And wash your hands and veggies well whenever digging in the backyard even.

Yes, you are correct, except for the added radiation of mining uranium

My point was, a lot of pro nuclear folks can be right of center, and they can also be anti EV, because of the hazards of lithium mining

Everything we do on this planet leaves some type of impact. Net zero, living off the grid...it all has an impact of some type. All we can do is limit that impact