Climate Change

[NWFlow]

Is Jong slaughter blurred?

[::: :::]

and china opens another coal mine to help replace demand that never went away. Good work!

how do you suggest we change China's policy?

[WMD]

Guess this has already been posted, but it's an interesting perspective to consider:

What if We Stopped Pretending the Climate Apocalypse Can Be Stopped? https://www.newyorker.com/culture/cu...ped-pretending

Climate scientists were furious when this article came out. They called bullshit big time and were frustrated that because he has a big name his opinions were published, even though they were not based in actual science. They were pissed that their actual fact-based opinions weren't published because America loves fame more than facts.

[WMD]

how do you suggest we change China's policy?

China is changing their policies, just not fast enough (ours aren't changing fast enough either).

But a recently proposed bill in the senate would tax imports from China and other countries not doing enough on climate to encourage them to cut emissions to avoid the tax: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/19/c...arbon-tax.html

"Democrats Propose a Border Tax Based on Countries’ Greenhouse Gas Emissions"

"Senators introduced a plan on Monday to tax iron, steel and other imports from countries without ambitious climate laws."

[ill-advised strategy]

Good luck with that idea. The youngsters like to breed.

[baron]

lmao/ its easy to blame big business...but they are selling their stuff to you!

Wanna stop their war on Earth ...stop buying iphones ,and gasoline ,and plastics n stuff. Don't spend your money where your mouth is.



I could give a fuck; humans are on their way to extinction -just like the dinosaurs ,they died from burning coal too.

[Core Shot]

IF YOU'RE NOT CONVINCED TGR IS A BUNCH OF FAGGY HIPPY DIPSHITS READ THIS THREAD AGAIN....AND DON'T EVER THINK OF THINGS AS OVERPOPULATION...JUST CLIMATE CHANGE. MORONS.

EARTH’S GONNA GET RAPED

Would be funnier

What happened to you man?

[WMD]

lmao/ its easy to blame big business...but they are selling their stuff to you!

Wanna stop their war on Earth ...stop buying iphones ,and gasoline ,and plastics n stuff. Don't spend your money where your mouth is.



I could give a fuck; humans are on their way to extinction -just like the dinosaurs ,they died from burning coal too.

This is total bullshit spread by industry to shift blame from them to us. It is a well-documented strategy.

Have you ever tried to buy an EV in Montana or Wyoming? Yeah, can't really do it. Your options are gas or diesel. Buy food not packaged in plastic? Not most places.

Consumers can only choose from options available to them and usually they are all bad for the planet.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.chi...outputType=amp

[grinch]

.....

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[old goat]

This is Malthusian nonsense. Globally, fertility has fallen substantially and it continues to fall. In large parts of the world, fertility is already at or below replacement level. All things being equal, population pressure isn't a big concern over the coming century, at least from a global perspective.

Furthermore, we do have the necessary wealth and technology to decarbonize our economy pretty quickly.

What we have is a total failure of political will and an abdication of leadership from the world's richest countries. The US could have easily steered the world towards a lower-carbon future starting 25 or so years ago. But we didn't and now Denver has worse air quality than Calcutta and it pisses rain at Alta in January.

Within our lifetimes, we are realistically now choosing how much worse it will get. So far, we are making shitty choices.

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Population growth has slowed or stopped in wealthier countries because of the advances in standard of living that make having children less desirable and less necessary. Meanwhile the poorer countries' populations continue to grow with people who want what we have. The US population continues to grow because of immigration (the census report is reportedly going to say that) as people with low carbon footprints become people with high carbon footprints. A big driver of migration is climate change and it's going to get worse.

Don't get me wrong--there is no question that carbon and methane production need to drastically decrease and essentially stop, but the problem is something we liberals don't understand but that the right does--that it's not just a matter of everybody putting solar panels on the roof. It's going to mean enormous changes in people's lives and that people aren't going to stand for it. If people won't wear a mask or get a simple shot, imagine what will happen when we tell them they can't fly across the country to see their families.

The great liberal lie--that we have the technology and all we need to do is pass some laws and we'll all be living in a carbon free world with no pain. And the idea that technology can solve the problem--that's how we got into this mess in the first place. I am not completely nihilistic. We have to try. And while population growth itself is not the root of the problem it sure will be easier if we could limit that as a variable and at least work with a stable, or at least decreasing population.

[45hill]

Population growth has slowed or stopped in wealthier countries because of the advances in standard of living that make having children less desirable and less necessary. Meanwhile the poorer countries' populations continue to grow with people who want what we have. The US population continues to grow because of immigration (the census report is reportedly going to say that) as people with low carbon footprints become people with high carbon footprints. A big driver of migration is climate change and it's going to get worse.

Don't get me wrong--there is no question that carbon and methane production need to drastically decrease and essentially stop, but the problem is something we liberals don't understand but that the right does--that it's not just a matter of everybody putting solar panels on the roof. It's going to mean enormous changes in people's lives and that people aren't going to stand for it. If people won't wear a mask or get a simple shot, imagine what will happen when we tell them they can't fly across the country to see their families.

The great liberal lie--that we have the technology and all we need to do is pass some laws and we'll all be living in a carbon free world with no pain. And the idea that technology can solve the problem--that's how we got into this mess in the first place. I am not completely nihilistic. We have to try. And while population growth itself is not the root of the problem it sure will be easier if we could limit that as a variable and at least work with a stable, or at least decreasing population.

That worked out well for the Chinese. You may want to think about changing our consumer based economy while you’re at it. People having babies spend money on houses, cars, and soft goods. Aging populations hoard capital. Look at Japan, Germany, and South Korea. Russia has like five more years of military aged men then they drop to half what they have now.

[bearcub69]

Anyone have any tips on not being depressed about this shit? Especially those 30 or younger?
I’m having a hard time with this lately.. what are we to do? I truly feel like mass global strikes or a pandemic that takes out 25% of the world population is the only answer.. I don’t want to be negative, but how can we change the infrastructure for everyone in the next 10 years without pumping out a shit more carbon?

What gives me hope is seeing what happened to Kathmandu during “global quarantine”.. shit cleared up. I went to Nepal when I was in high school and that valley can get fucked with nasty air, but in a just a few weeks when the world was shut down things were clearing up.


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[NWFlow]

Climate scientists were furious when this article came out. They called bullshit big time and were frustrated that because he has a big name his opinions were published, even though they were not based in actual science. They were pissed that their actual fact-based opinions weren't published because America loves fame more than facts.

And i think their anger and frustration was justified. I'm not saying Franzen is 100% correct -- and i dont get the the vibe he's presenting his opinions as facts -- but i do think it's an interesting perspective. I work academically in a field closely related to "climate science" so it's easy to get depressed about the situation, and i find myself returning to the article for.a small amount of hope for a future even if we end up in a worst case scenario.

[NWFlow]

Anyone have any tips on not being depressed about this shit? Especially those 30 or younger?
I’m having a hard time with this lately.. what are we to do? I truly feel like mass global strikes or a pandemic that takes out 25% of the world population is the only answer.. I don’t want to be negative, but how can we change the infrastructure for everyone in the next 10 years without pumping out a shit more carbon?

What gives me hope is seeing what happened to Kathmandu during “global quarantine”.. shit cleared up. I went to Nepal when I was in high school and that valley can get fucked with nasty air, but in a just a few weeks when the world was shut down things were clearing up.


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You can always hope for a volcanic event or some previously unresolved negative feedback mechanism to kick in, reverse warming, and stabilize the climate back to the late-Holocene conditions under which civilization flourished. Or hope a populous that spent the last year "debating" whether masks are effective against an airborne virus will accept rapid lifestyle alterations for the greater good of humanity.

I would normally say focus especially on behavioral modifications to reduce your personal footprint, but I just got super bummed out after calculating that the international flight to see my family for which i just bought tickets will erase most of the footprint decreases I attempted to realize in the last year. So I don't really know. It's a tough situation.

[east or bust]

The problem with major societal behavior change (which I’ve been saying is the only real solution for years) is there will never come a day when everyone jumps aboard on that plan. When your sacrifices are offset by those not bought into the plan it becomes somewhat of a worthless endeavor.

Trying to come to terms with the possibility that there might not be skiing in the lower 48 when I’m in my sixties.


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[The SnowShow]

Trying to come to terms with the possibility that there might not be skiing in the lower 48 when I’m in my sixties.


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That makes me nauseous.

[Core Shot]

Anyone have any tips on not being depressed about this shit? Especially those 30 or younger?
I’m having a hard time with this lately.. what are we to do? I truly feel like mass global strikes or a pandemic that takes out 25% of the world population is the only answer.. I don’t want to be negative, but how can we change the infrastructure for everyone in the next 10 years without pumping out a shit more carbon?

What gives me hope is seeing what happened to Kathmandu during “global quarantine”.. shit cleared up. I went to Nepal when I was in high school and that valley can get fucked with nasty air, but in a just a few weeks when the world was shut down things were clearing up.


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

Earth day started in the seventies

Lots of news about rainforest destruction and the end of the earth. I had a similar depression.

At some point you say fuck it, here I am, I might as well live. Or you decrease the population by one.

We are parasites. And our self interest results in resource consumption and depletion
Not sure it will ever change.

Try to enjoy the ride.

[nickwm21]

I would normally say focus especially on behavioral modifications to reduce your personal footprint, but I just got super bummed out after calculating that the international flight to see my family for which i just bought tickets will erase most of the footprint decreases I attempted to realize in the last year. So I don't really know. It's a tough situation.

This….

Current front page on this forum has threads on Costa Rica, Switzerland, Morzine, and Chile.

We are all hypocrites.




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[Sirshredalot]

Population growth has slowed or stopped in wealthier countries because of the advances in standard of living that make having children less desirable and less necessary. Meanwhile the poorer countries' populations continue to grow with people who want what we have. The US population continues to grow because of immigration (the census report is reportedly going to say that) as people with low carbon footprints become people with high carbon footprints. A big driver of migration is climate change and it's going to get worse.

Don't get me wrong--there is no question that carbon and methane production need to drastically decrease and essentially stop, but the problem is something we liberals don't understand but that the right does--that it's not just a matter of everybody putting solar panels on the roof. It's going to mean enormous changes in people's lives and that people aren't going to stand for it. If people won't wear a mask or get a simple shot, imagine what will happen when we tell them they can't fly across the country to see their families.

The great liberal lie--that we have the technology and all we need to do is pass some laws and we'll all be living in a carbon free world with no pain. And the idea that technology can solve the problem--that's how we got into this mess in the first place. I am not completely nihilistic. We have to try. And while population growth itself is not the root of the problem it sure will be easier if we could limit that as a variable and at least work with a stable, or at least decreasing population.

There has also been a massive decline in fertility in the developing world that has accompanied a huge reduction in poverty. We don't have the high YoY population growth that we saw in the middle of the 20th century any more, and I don't think there is a reason to believe that it will return.

We are 100 percent in agreement that as people get richer, they consume more crap. Most of this pressure isn't from immigration to rich countries (which isn't a big number in terms of the world). It's from poor, populous countries rapidly becoming richer. Poverty sucks! That's a good thing!

We have the technology to go full zero-emissions in power generation and cars right now. That's already where all the growth is in those sectors. BEV cars are blindingly fast and utility scale renewable power is clean and cheap. And there are commercially-viable battery electric plane startups already running and going into production - they're targeting small plane short haul routes initially. My understanding is that cement and steel manufacturing technology needs a lot of help, and I also think we need breakthroughs in carbon sequestration. But I do not see any theoretical reason why these technical problems can't be solved. We have the greatest engineering capacity in human history, we already have power generation solved, etc.

I agree with you that it is necessary to gore someone's ox, though. We need to heavily tax carbon emissions broadly and use that money to do two things. 1. Refund it to American consumers to compensate them. 2. You can heavily subsidize basic r&d at research universities, NREL, etc. I don't think the average American consumer would be worse off if we did this.

The real problem - in my view - is that the American oil and gas sector has outsized political influence. They've been subsidized heavily for many decades. To the extent that we have been failing the challenge in front of our country - and the world - it has been a classic political economy question. The oil and gas industry has concentrated benefits that they use to buy off the politicians. The costs are diffuse - every American and every person on Earth is made worse off by the pollution.

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[altasnob]

What about habitat destruction? Even if we are all driving and flying around in EVs, every year there is less and less habitat available for non-humans on earth. I don't see how humans can symbiotically live on this planet while mowing down forests and wetlands for homes, driveways, roads, chairlifts, trails, ect. Even if population is shrinking, that just means we will all have longer driveways in the future.

[Percy Rideout]

Earth day started in the seventies

Lots of news about rainforest destruction and the end of the earth. I had a similar depression.

At some point you say fuck it, here I am, I might as well live. Or you decrease the population by one.

We are parasites. And our self interest results in resource consumption and depletion
Not sure it will ever change.

Try to enjoy the ride.

This is how you stay sane.

Humans will survive and flourish in a warmer climate, so will more plants which love CO2.

Not worried about us parasites as much as a geologic cataclysm. Miss one growing season due to ash in the sky, and it will get Mad Max out there...quickly.

[Joey Joe Joe Junior Shabadoo]

We need to heavily tax carbon emissions broadly

I remember watching an executive from Anadarko on C-SPAN back in college (2001) and he said "if you ignore the long term environmental impacts fossil fuels are still the cheapest, most efficient fuels we have in the short term, and 99% of consumers think in the short term. Until you make fossil fuels economically unviable or undesirable people will keep burning them until we run out." There's talk every summer of high gas prices changing some peoples travel habits. If we had $8-$9-a-gallon gas I bet lots of habits would be changing very quickly.

[skifishbum]

Anyone have any tips on not being depressed about this shit? Especially those 30 or younger?
I’m having a hard time with this lately.. what are we to do? I truly feel like mass global strikes or a pandemic that takes out 25% of the world population is the only answer.. I don’t want to be negative, but how can we change the infrastructure for everyone in the next 10 years without pumping out a shit more carbon?

What gives me hope is seeing what happened to Kathmandu during “global quarantine”.. shit cleared up. I went to Nepal when I was in high school and that valley can get fucked with nasty air, but in a just a few weeks when the world was shut down things were clearing up.


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dont procreate
keep hustlin for nickles and dimes
and turn it up to 11

[Sirshredalot]

What about habitat destruction? Even if we are all driving and flying around in EVs, every year there is less and less habitat available for non-humans on earth. I don't see how humans can symbiotically live on this planet while mowing down forests and wetlands for homes, driveways, roads, chairlifts, trails, ect. Even if population is shrinking, that just means we will all have longer driveways in the future.

Habitat destruction is a related problem, but it's not the same problem.

But we can fit many more people in less space if we build cities like Copenhagen instead of Phoenix. A bonus is that people in Copenhagen enjoy a better quality of life and use less energy for housing and transportation.

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[old goat]

The real problem - in my view - is that the American oil and gas sector has outsized political influence. They've been subsidized heavily for many decades. To the extent that we have been failing the challenge in front of our country - and the world - it has been a classic political economy question. The oil and gas industry has concentrated benefits that they use to buy off the politicians. The costs are diffuse - every American and every person on Earth is made worse off by the pollution.

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It's always easier to blame some bogeyman.
The fact remains that what you promise--technological solutions that will let people in the wealthy countries go on living their lives like before--is a pipe dream. Even if all the technology can be scaled up enough to replace carbon fuels without causing even more environmental damage in the process, which I think unlikely, doing so will consume all of people's disposable income and time; lives will have to revolve around coping with and stabilizing global warming to the exclusion of all else. Think of the scene in Black Mirror where most people spend their days pedaling stationary bikes to generate electricity.

Things were going along swimmingly for a few hundred thousand years (maybe not so swimmingly if the eruption of a supervolcano reduced the population of Homo sapiens to 1000 couples or so about 70,000 years ago) until someone got the bright idea to start planting seeds and it's been downhill ever since. Population exploded but instead of the natural mechanism that keep populations in check working, ever increasing technology has staved off disaster--temporarily. The technology has allowed the elites of the planet to live increasingly rich and comfortable lives while the great majority of people have lived in ever increasing misery. And all of that has happened in a blink of an eye in the time-span of life on the planet.