Jobs--how will this work?

[Dexter Rutecki]

Heard a bit of a story on the radio yesterday about some new machine that will pick one apple per second, taking the place of around 30 pickers. Obviously this kind of thing has been going on forever, but in the past the innovations displaced workers from one thing and ended up creating other jobs down the line (automobile assembly lines created a huge market for cheaper cars, thus creating even more jobs making them and everything they required). It doesn't seem like current innovations do that--they just eliminate jobs.

When this apple thing is adopted, what's going to happen to those sets of 30 guys who would have previously had jobs? It's not like they'll be hired as software engineers at Google, and everyone can't just trade off part time Uber jobs with each other. I'm sure people will have to help build and maintain the new machines, but it won't do anything for the original pickers. And the new jobs will be higher paying, but there will be fewer of them which will continue the trend of concentrating wealth in less people's hands. This kind of thing is happening with many white collar jobs these days as well (banks have figured out that software can do a lot of what their employees used to do, for example).

Time for a guaranteed minimum 'wage' everyone should receive? Fewer people working? Not sure I see how this all works out.

[Cruiser]

When this apple thing is adopted, what's going to happen to those sets of 30 guys who would have previously had jobs?

They'll find something else to pick, I guess. I know fuckall about apple picking but I assume they're harvest by the same migrant (Mexican?) pickers who pick other crops throughout the US on a rotating schedule. Further, the transition to mechanized apple picking is unlikely to happen overnight, or even in 10 years of harvests, so it's not like several thousand crews of 30 apple pikers are gonna be working on Friday afternoon and then told not to show up on Monday cuz the new fangled tech just arrived. Surely there's some more worthy injustice to get wound up about?

[Toadman]

They will pick their noses!

[Dexter Rutecki]

Yeah, not getting wound up about this injustice (strange way to understand that post), and just using the apple thing as one example of a broad trend. Not sure new fruits will be invented to pick and this will take several years at least, but it still seems to present a problem when you multiply the issue out over thousands of businesses and all sorts of industries.

[Timberridge]

The pool of race coach candidates will get bigger.

[Not Neil_Armstrong]

I'm not a bleeding heart, but sometimes I think Big business should back off a little. I hate the idea of people loosing jobs regardless of race or legality of citizenship. However I often dream of being Omish < says this from behind his powerful Gaming computer > IDK

[MagnificentUnicorn]

Living in the heart of tree fruit country here in WA, this is happening because there is a of lack of pickers. This is a political and economic issue. It's becoming too expensive for growers to recruit and hire workers from Mexico because of stricter immigration and migrant employment regulations. This isn't only about picking machines, the whole industry is becoming more automated because of the lack of wiling workers.

[ate'em]

the whole industry is becoming more automated because of the piss-poor unlivable wages on offer.

There you go.
I'd pick apples for $30/hour. Not for $7.

God knows the agribusiness corporation is happy to keep the change.

[Dexter Rutecki]

The pool of race coach candidates will get bigger.

Unless the pool can be made up of a negative number of coaches it couldn't get smaller, based on (lack of) response here.

And again, the specifics on apples are interesting, but I really only saw that as an example of what seems to be happening in many industries.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

There you go.
I'd pick apples for $30/hour. Not for $7.

God knows the agribusiness corporation is happy to keep the change.

You don't pick apples for an hourly rate, you pick by the bin usually. The pickers can actually do quite well but it's really hard work. The cost is so high because the growers are responsible for the cost of getting the workers here and back home if they do it legally with the migrant worker program. You'd be hard pressed to find many illegal orchard workers, it's a pretty highly regulated industry now and that's driven the cost up. There are resident workers but not enough and the poor white folks think the work is too hard or beneath them even if they would make more money. One of the housekeepers at the hospital told me she made like $30k for three months of apple and pear picking.

[Sirshredalot]

Heard a bit of a story on the radio yesterday about some new machine that will pick one apple per second, taking the place of around 30 pickers. Obviously this kind of thing has been going on forever, but in the past the innovations displaced workers from one thing and ended up creating other jobs down the line (automobile assembly lines created a huge market for cheaper cars, thus creating even more jobs making them and everything they required). It doesn't seem like current innovations do that--they just eliminate jobs.

When this apple thing is adopted, what's going to happen to those sets of 30 guys who would have previously had jobs? It's not like they'll be hired as software engineers at Google, and everyone can't just trade off part time Uber jobs with each other. I'm sure people will have to help build and maintain the new machines, but it won't do anything for the original pickers. And the new jobs will be higher paying, but there will be fewer of them which will continue the trend of concentrating wealth in less people's hands. This kind of thing is happening with many white collar jobs these days as well (banks have figured out that software can do a lot of what their employees used to do, for example).

Time for a guaranteed minimum 'wage' everyone should receive? Fewer people working? Not sure I see how this all works out.

Technological innovation has led to the substitution of capital for labor in the ag sector for literally thousands of years.

[pepperdawg]

How does the picking machine work?

Are almonds picked by hand?

[Vt-Freeheel]

Jamaicans have been picking apples in VT as long as I can remember.


jamaicans-ensure-vermont-apple-crops-success

[Timberridge]

Even fry jobs are being automated today. Used to be you had to stand at the fryer basket and watch the food, removing it when it was the perfect golden brown color. Today you can a buy a machine that cooks it to perfection with the push of a button.

[Dexter Rutecki]

Technological innovation has led to the substitution of capital for labor in the ag sector for literally thousands of years.

Subsistence farmers are a far cry from agribusiness employing 10's of thousands of people.

I have actually worked on a farm picking fruit (peaches and pears) when I was 16 or 17 and it wasn't great, but I could imagine worse jobs. Still not seeing what happens to people who depend on those jobs if all the picking ever gets automated.

[barkcity]

Heard a bit of a story on the radio yesterday about some new machine that will pick one apple per second, taking the place of around 30 pickers. Obviously this kind of thing has been going on forever, but in the past the innovations displaced workers from one thing and ended up creating other jobs down the line (automobile assembly lines created a huge market for cheaper cars, thus creating even more jobs making them and everything they required). It doesn't seem like current innovations do that--they just eliminate jobs.

When this apple thing is adopted, what's going to happen to those sets of 30 guys who would have previously had jobs? It's not like they'll be hired as software engineers at Google, and everyone can't just trade off part time Uber jobs with each other. I'm sure people will have to help build and maintain the new machines, but it won't do anything for the original pickers. And the new jobs will be higher paying, but there will be fewer of them which will continue the trend of concentrating wealth in less people's hands. This kind of thing is happening with many white collar jobs these days as well (banks have figured out that software can do a lot of what their employees used to do, for example).

Time for a guaranteed minimum 'wage' everyone should receive? Fewer people working? Not sure I see how this all works out.

I heard the same news story on NPR, and a couple of farmers who was interviewed said he cannot find enough workers to pick all the crops. One was an apple farmer, and another farmer who grows zucchini is also in the same situation. He throws away 20-30% of his zucchini, because he can't find workers to pick fast enough (in peak season, zucchini grows about 1/4" per hour!... and the market won't buy xtra large zucchini, who knew).

They both said that the govt needs to change migrant worker programs or they'll end up going out of business, because he can't find enough workers. They pay just a little over the minimum wage to the pickers, but no American citizens want to do work that hard.

So maybe an automated apple picker could save their business, not take jobs from workers?

[Dexter Rutecki]

Even fry jobs are being automated today. Used to be you had to stand at the fryer basket and watch the food, removing it when it was the perfect golden brown color. Today you can a buy a machine that cooks it to perfection with the push of a button.

This insight has me looking at your signature in a different light.

[splat]

The apple pickers aren't the only jobs getting benched and it will continue to cross wide swaths of positions.
Uber just completed the first semi truck delivery of goods with no driver in the cab.
AI programs are expected to take the place of traders on Wall Street.
Amazon will have robotics fill your shopping basket and delivery your groceries by drone.
Is this your first exposure to the fact that robotics are taking over the work force, if not the world?
I suggest you not complain too loudly....Killer drones are also now running autonomous AI programs.

[Timberridge]

This insight has me looking at your signature in a different light.

The Autofry MTI-40C...

[DBdude]

Heard a bit of a story on the radio yesterday about some new machine that will pick one apple per second, taking the place of around 30 pickers. Obviously this kind of thing has been going on forever, but in the past the innovations displaced workers from one thing and ended up creating other jobs down the line (automobile assembly lines created a huge market for cheaper cars, thus creating even more jobs making them and everything they required). It doesn't seem like current innovations do that--they just eliminate jobs.

When this apple thing is adopted, what's going to happen to those sets of 30 guys who would have previously had jobs? It's not like they'll be hired as software engineers at Google, and everyone can't just trade off part time Uber jobs with each other. I'm sure people will have to help build and maintain the new machines, but it won't do anything for the original pickers. And the new jobs will be higher paying, but there will be fewer of them which will continue the trend of concentrating wealth in less people's hands. This kind of thing is happening with many white collar jobs these days as well (banks have figured out that software can do a lot of what their employees used to do, for example).

Time for a guaranteed minimum 'wage' everyone should receive? Fewer people working? Not sure I see how this all works out.

the jamaicains will stop apple picking - no vermonter picks apples for money

[nutmegchoi]

Last time I went apple picking, I was picking two apples at once!
I wouldn't work for minimum wedge though...

The way I see it is natural course.
Old jobs disappear and new jobs appear.
Making application (user interface, which what I'm doing) wasn't existing job 30 years ago?

Some go and some will come.
Future will be career driven rather than labor.

[Shredhead]

Time for a guaranteed minimum 'wage' everyone should receive?

That will just hasten the automation, you are ranting against.

[Jeffreaux]

Wait until 3.5 million truckers are put out of work by driverless trucks. Jamaicans we can send home but we're going to be stuck with a lot of angry truck drivers.

[uglymoney]

On the plus side we won't have as many trucks tailgating on the highway. I think the technology exists now to put automatic braking on trucks and making it mandatory. It would save a ton of accidents.

[XXX-er]

In Japan lower end cafeterias have eliminated the cashiers, you pick what you wana eat from a bunch of pictures press a button and feed money into a vending machine which spits out a ticket you give to the kitchen staff ... nobody had to learn japanese