Anyone have anything they'd like to rant about?

[jackstraw]

Sounds like bicycles in general shouldn’t be on those trails…


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Naw, going Up a relatively low pitch that has blind corners definitely changes the game on a class 1 ebike. Way faster than any normal person would pedal, so it can create an issue.

And Xer, I tell ebikers to pass me all the time on single track ups. Just don't expect me to stop and let you go, they have plenty of power to zip by and if they don't have the skills then oh well. Acoustic I will pull to the side. I don't care if anyone disagrees with me. It's mtn biking, not mopeding.

[XXX-er]

" The only time I was slightly pissy at a group of class 1 ebikers was on a dbl track climb (which I avoid whenever possible!) went blowing by me and created a huge dust storm as I'm sucking wind climbing. That actually really pissed me off. Acoustic bikes would never do that on a climb to that degree. "

According to your last ^^ post it looks like you got really pissy

[singlesline]

Sounds like bicycles in general shouldn’t be on those trails…


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Seems really dependent on the trail system. If the problem is just "more ebikes=more bikes" then it isn't really an ebike problem, it is a congestion problem. Maybe the increased traffic can help push through the need to expand trails.

But speeds can be pretty different. Downhill is downhill and your typical ebike is probably going slower than the fastest trail riders...no real speed conflicts on downhill sections. Sure the bike is heavier, but not by that much compared to the weight of the person riding it.

Uphill it *can* be an issue because suddenly the bikes are able to move a lot faster (especially on crappier hub drive e-bikes where the pedal assist is more of an on/off switch than an actual assist). This is somewhat mitigated by most mid-drive e-bikes still requiring some effort to go uphill and not having the motor power to make you go crazy fast unless you are strong enough to put in a decent amount of pedal energy (and hopefully those are the experienced cyclists who will be a little safer).

What about trail systems that are mostly flat and rolling?
There you can actually get the bike going 20 without a ton of effort...in areas where nobody except the rare lycra-clad XC racer is going anywhere near that fast. This seems to be a big issue in some larger midwest trail systems I am familiar with. These trails are smooth and pretty flat which makes them popular with non-cyclist users. It's not really a problem when the average speed is like 10mph or less except for brief downhills, but suddenly you have people going twice as fast and that's just going to cause problems.

And of course those are often the trails where access is most sensitive. There's no space to expand, few alternative trail systems nearby, and many of the hikers (and horse people) would happily be rid of the 2-wheeled menace.

[rideit]

Around here almost all of the e-bikers are the same guys and gals that have been riding (and building) these trails for decades. It’s the same people. (On the more difficult trails). In the Big Holes I have yet to see another ebiker that I didn’t already know.

(Kind of a small group to begin with!)

[rideit]

" The only time I was slightly pissy at a group of class 1 ebikers was on a dbl track climb (which I avoid whenever possible!) went blowing by me and created a huge dust storm as I'm sucking wind climbing. That actually really pissed me off. Acoustic bikes would never do that on a climb to that degree. "

According to your last ^^ post it looks like you got really pissy

I agree with him, though, that would be super fucking annoying. Have a little courtesy. In fact, slowing down and just riding by slowly is even easier on the e’s, just speed up when you are far enough up the trail.

[Dantheman]

Depends on the trail. For most trails, I agree. But I can think of a few local trails that get a ton of use - bikes, hikers, trail runners, dog walkers, etc. And the trail networks are poorly designed, so everyone is going in both directions on the same trails, and there's plenty of semi-blind corners. Regular bikes are already bordering on being a problem because they move faster. Ebikes (including Class 1) just increase the speed a bit more, and they also invite a whole new user group that's entirely capable of going pretty fast on an ebike but aren't particularly proficient riders.

For trails that aren't so crowded or are in better laid out networks, then sure. Class 1 is fine.

And of course there's the trail systems that are wholly or partially on private property and the landowner has provided access under the explicit provision that there won't be any motorized use. If they don't agree that a Class 1 ebike isn't a motorized vehicle, poof, gone.

[climberevan]

As someone who has been warning about the falling sky for some time now, I'm glad to hear that more people are becoming alarmed. If you'd all listened to the early moped complainers we could have nipped this thing in the bud.

[beaterdit]

Rant: There's no such thing as an "acoustic" bike. There's BIKES, then theres E-bikes ie: mopeds.

[rideit]

My e-bike has ‘foot-throttles’.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

Love the moving goalposts. “There’s too many ebikes “, “No there’s too many bikes, congestion is the real problem”. I know everyone wants to think that the only ebikers on their local system are the “core riders that were there anyway” but that’s bullshit and cognitive dissonance. The reason there’s more “bikes” is because people that would have never wanted to or had the ability to are riding trails now, because of ebikes. It’s fucking easier. There used to be a bar for entry. You could suck it up, gain fitness and skill and keep trail riding. Most people give up and their MTB sits in the garage collecting dust. This is the truth, deal with it.


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[beaterdit]

Truth

[rideit]

Love the moving goalposts. “There’s too many ebikes “, “No there’s too many bikes, congestion is the real problem”. I know everyone wants to think that the only ebikers on their local system are the “core riders that were there anyway” but that’s bullshit and cognitive dissonance. The reason there’s more “bikes” is because people that would have never wanted to or had the ability to are riding trails now, because of ebikes. It’s fucking easier. There used to be a bar for entry. You could suck it up, gain fitness and skill and keep trail riding. Most people give up and their MTB sits in the garage collecting dust. This is the truth, deal with it.


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I think you have to take my comment in context. There are only a handful of e-bikes that go in the big holes, period. And they are, indeed, the same handful that ride there on our regular bikes as well. In general, this group is also very, very fit. Other places are certainly different.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

Others have voiced that opinion, it wasn’t directed at you. I’ve heard it many times since people have started talking about this.




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[Dantheman]

I think you have to take my comment in context. There are only a handful of e-bikes that go in the big holes, period. And they are, indeed, the same handful that ride there on our regular bikes as well. In general, this group is also very, very fit. Other places are certainly different.

The Big Holes are moto legal so really not even relevant to this discussion.

[rideit]

I just stopped in to clarify that point. I have to say, though, they recently I rode Bobsled with another mag, I was only in an e-bike due to recovering from two surgeries. It would not have been possible to ride on the meat bike, I likely have had the upper body strength for the climb, and would have had to walk a ton of it. It wasn’t a problem in any way in any other regard.
I have another friend that only has one lung. I haven’t been able to ride with him since about ‘99.
I still prefer my regular bike, but there is a place and time for all of this.

[east or bust]

Must say, the lack of e-bikes I’ve seen in the wild around here (greater Jackson area) is pretty surprising. You see way more on the south side of the big holes and in Pocatello. The people I saw on e-bikes when I lived in IF all sucked, for lack of a better term. Speaking from experience, Rideit and anyone he vouches for are certainly in the upper echelon of ability level.


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[XXX-er]

I agree with him, though, that would be super fucking annoying. Have a little courtesy. In fact, slowing down and just riding by slowly is even easier on the e’s, just speed up when you are far enough up the trail.

show us on the doll where the E-bikers got dust on you

[rideit]

Speaking from experience, Rideit and anyone he vouches for are certainly in the upper echelon of ability level.

Aww, that just filled my bucket.

[jackstraw]

" The only time I was slightly pissy at a group of class 1 ebikers was on a dbl track climb (which I avoid whenever possible!) went blowing by me and created a huge dust storm as I'm sucking wind climbing. That actually really pissed me off. Acoustic bikes would never do that on a climb to that degree. "

According to your last ^^ post it looks like you got really pissy

I'm impressed with your reading comprehension.

Do you ever pedal without a motor or did you throw in the towel?

[rideit]

show us on the doll where the E-bikers got dust on you

Proof you are not truly Canadian.

[XXX-er]

what yer really ranting about is that you don't like getting dropped

[skaredshtles]

<snip> Rideit and anyone he vouches for are certainly in the upper echelon of ability level.

Except when he crashes and breaks shit. He's too old for that crap.

[jackstraw]

I'm not a roadie, so I've never been "dropped", but if I was I'd drop off on purpose. I like space. So is that why you threw in the towel? Getting dropped on MTN bike rides? That's kinda sad if so. You need nicer Canadian friends man

[sfotex]

When I see some 70yo person on an e-bike cruising around the mellow trails my reaction is 'cool, hope I'm still riding at that age'
Then, when I get passed by a bunch of 20yo with full faces and armor on destroyer class e-bikes headed up to a long climb to ride the gnar and they're not even pedaling my reaction is 'fuck e-bikes'

It's like service animals - for some people it's the real difference between being able to go to the grocery store, etc. or not go, and for others its a way to bring their shitty POS dog with them because they're special too...

[rideit]

what yer really ranting about is that you don't like getting dropped

When I’m on my Powerplay? Fat fucking chance!