Anyone have anything they'd like to rant about?

[rideit]

The amazing thing is that if you hit them/they ran into you, you would probably lose in court.

[VTskibum]

Haven't seen the guy yet, but apparently teen has been riding around one of our suburban town trail systems on a Surron. Seemingly hasn't pissed off the right/wrong people yet, but that's inevitable with turn of the weather. I only hope the hikers realize that's not an actual MTB, but I'm not optimistic. Across the main road there's a ton of rogue trails that have mostly peacefully existed for 20 years, would be far better if he's riding over there, but then same problem may arise.

[toast2266]

I only hope the hikers realize that's not an actual MTB, but I'm not optimistic.

I think the crusty old hiker crowd is fully aware of the difference, and is also fully aware that they can ignore that difference and use e-motos as an excuse to try to ban all things 2 wheeled.

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[rideit]

^^^BINGO^^^

An inconvenient Truth, if you will.

[XXX-er]

Locally the crusty old hiker club are all in their 70's now mostly women cuz of course the men are dying off but a retired senior govy planner came out and flat told me that area they don't want developed will eventualy be absorbed by the mtn bike club on one side and the xc ski club on the other side and developed so we will have one big glorious rec area for the provincial gov to develop

pretty dumb really cuz these old fucks are too old to do anything and if they got in bed so to speak with the other tenure holders they would have more better trails and everybody else would do their maintenance,

they use the mtn bike area's trails and p-lot now and of course nobody sez anything

[mtnjam]

My fucking town has bike paths all over the place, but 90% of them dead end into nothingness at random places where the town couldn't be bothered to get an easement. The one I rode this evening dead ends at a property line, and then restarts a couple hundred feet later at the other side of the property line, with a shitty little cow path that's been worn in connecting the two ends. Another one just dead ends into a river embankment, so you either have to hike up the embankment to get onto a street, or backtrack a quarter mile to the last street the path crossed. And all of these are the main, highly used bike paths. i.e. from downtown to the grocery store, the hardware store, etc.

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So you live in the Boise area then?

[SchralphMacchio]

Orbea turn and pull derailleur hanger removal system [emoji1750]

A toolless install and removal system that’s so poorly designed that you need a tool, but there isn’t one other than round jaw pliers. Sigh.

[chicken feathers]

Tonights ride was great other than seeing e-bikes on trails that are closed to e-bikes and followed by a guy riding a surron on said mtb trails.

[homemadesalsa]

Orbea turn and pull derailleur hanger removal system [emoji1750]

A toolless install and removal system that’s so poorly designed that you need a tool, but there isn’t one other than round jaw pliers. Sigh.

Not sure which Orbea you have, but the North Shore version for the Occam is SO much better than the original.

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[joetron]

Tonights ride was great other than seeing e-bikes on trails that are closed to e-bikes and followed by a guy riding a surron on said mtb trails.

Details please.
Mostly just for the Surron, but what non e-bike trails were ya on, and were they old fucks?


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[rideit]

Tonights ride was great other than seeing e-bikes on trails that are closed to e-bikes and followed by a guy riding a surron on said mtb trails.

As to the e-bikes, (serious question here), was it just their mere presence on the trail, or were they actively riding in a way that was different than a meat-bike?

(I know that it is legally irrelevant, but I am curious anyway).

[chicken feathers]

Details please.
Mostly just for the Surron, but what non e-bike trails were ya on, and were they old fucks?


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The e-bike was an old-f riding on Chucillo, kind of a buzzkill. He was struggling.

The Surron was at the trail sign where the old road runs between the ridge and the meadow, where the meadow loop starts. From there they rode into the Mesa dh trails where he passed me on a climb. Later I saw he was part of a group in a tricked out transit van w/ Ohio plates...D-bags.

[chicken feathers]

As to the e-bikes, (serious question here), was it just their mere presence on the trail, or were they actively riding in a way that was different than a meat-bike?

(I know that it is legally irrelevant, but I am curious anyway).

A little of both. The e-biker was with a group that dropped in ahead of me when I met them at an intersection. Like the second they saw me coming they decided to go. I had no intention of stopping, but had to because they were now in the way. He was last and was struggling. So he was easy target for his groups trail etiquette.

So again seeing a e-bike behind signs that say no e-bikes, and e-bikers being oblivious (intentionally or not) to other users.

[Shredhead]

The e-bike was an old-f riding on Chucillo, kind of a buzzkill. He was struggling.

Clearly entitled millennials.
Boomer old fucks everywhere, apologize for releasing their demon seed.

[joetron]

The e-bike was an old-f riding on Chucillo, kind of a buzzkill. He was struggling.

The Surron was at the trail sign where the old road runs between the ridge and the meadow, where the meadow loop starts. From there they rode into the Mesa dh trails where he passed me on a climb. Later I saw he was part of a group in a tricked out transit van w/ Ohio plates...D-bags.

Oh damn. Clown wasn’t wearing a helmet either? Surrons must be handled with extreme prejudice. Fuck those things. Hopefully someone gave him an earful in the Mesa park.


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[skinipenem]

Oh damn. Clown wasn’t wearing a helmet either? Surrons must be handled with extreme prejudice. Fuck those things. Hopefully someone gave him an earful in the Mesa park.


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Fact. Class ii and iii ebikes have zero business in any mountain bike trails. If you wanna ride full Moto, then go where the motos go.

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[SchralphMacchio]

Fact. Class ii and iii ebikes have zero business in any mountain bike trails. If you wanna ride full Moto, then go where the motos go.

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I wonder if there might be Class 2 compatibility on certain bike specific directional trails that are rugged enough to stand up to abuse and tight enough on descents that electric throttle really doesn’t make any difference vs gravity?

Class 3 are a pretty unfortunate product for road and mountain, it’s a product without a home. Too small and incapable enough to share roads and OHV trails with larger vehicles, too powerful and fast to be used on city bike paths or any kind of trails with low speed users.

[chicken feathers]

They were taking turns on the surron. First guy I saw riding is the 2nd dude w/ the full face.

People suck, more and more it seems.

[XXX-er]

I don't see anything but class 1 on the local bike area trails which are allowed

I don't think the people buying the 2 & 3 have the skills to handle them on the tight trails

[jackstraw]

I don't see anything but class 1 on the local bike area trails which are allowed

I don't think the people buying the 2 & 3 have the skills to handle them on the tight trails

That's a batahit crazy comment xer! Anybody going to a Surron from motox will rip around on those things. I've only seen a couple on mtb trails, but never close enough to say anything...or wheelie the f over them [emoji16]
Seriously, as a trail builder and former motox idiot I will have no problem speaking and educating anyone as to why they shouldn't be on the trail. It may fall on deaf ears for many, but I do think some are ignorant and would understand if brought to their attention.

[singlesline]

What about how stupid and nonsensical the ebike classes are?

Class 1 is pedal assist with a max speed of 20mph (or 15.5 in europe)

Class 2 ebikes have a throttle...which IMHO makes them not bikes. They are scooters with pedals.

Class 3 ditches the throttle and goes back to being a "bike" but bumps the max speed to 28mph (maybe class 3 CAN have a throttle depending where you are, but most don't). These are fine on the actual road, but they are obviously going to create a lot of user conflicts on bike paths/bike lanes.

Why is the throttle bike stuffed in the middle? Just makes it confusing to the general public who are already confused by the presence of extra categories. For example, a Class 3 ebike is allowed in Glacier National Park, but not a Class 2 even though 3>2 and the max speed of a 3 is 40% faster than a 2...

Doesn't help that some of the nearby rental outfits will happily rent you a class 2 bike and tell you to go ride the Going To The Sun Road...

Not many actual MTBs in the 2 or 3 group though...probably because manufacturers know that the throttle is a no-go for a lot of land managers and that nobody needs a 28mph max speed on a singletrack climb trail...

edit: personally I guess it doesn't effect me if you are going up the GTSR at 20mph with pedal assist or 20mph with a throttle...but I will laugh at you when you run out of battery before the summit because you weren't doing any pedaling

[XXX-er]

I never see any bikes with throttles cuz too big and heavy no mtb skills, they ride them around in town

I'm sure surons are coming but I haven't seen one yet

I'm pretty sure you have never been to the local bike area

[jackstraw]

Seems like most of not all class 3 can have a throttle added? Idk. Imv 2 and 3 are motorcycles. And somewhat on xxx thought, I'd say 1/3 of the class 1 ebikers around here don't have the skills to be riding them, but the 2/3 rip and they're all former mtb and/or motox guys. I see that 1/3 growing though because it's "easy" and what's especially annoying is they're going Up the Downs. Those guys are gonna get creamed.

[XXX-er]

the only person I've ever had to speak to was an American during covid, he tried to spew some BS so i pointed out everybody in town had already made him so he should get his truck and keep driving it to the border

the area has an updated sign that states class 1 allowed but not 2 or 3, all the trails are either signed "yield to up hill traffic" or "no up hill" and I think these get followed people, up hill traffic will often stop cuz they want a reason to stop in any case its not very busy and its not a problem

I think the 2&3 do ok on a road wide trail or on mainstreet but what stops a 2 or 3 is throing in a bunch of tight off camber 180's with some roots and trees and then its more fun riding down main st

any body on a class 1 pretty much knows what they are doing, its just a bike with some extra weight and most of the acoustic bikers know what they are doing

[Dantheman]

Class 3 ditches the throttle and goes back to being a "bike" but bumps the max speed to 28mph (maybe class 3 CAN have a throttle depending where you are, but most don't). These are fine on the actual road, but they are obviously going to create a lot of user conflicts on bike paths/bike lanes.

There's a huge subset of Class 3 that have throttles, 1000w motors, and weigh 80-100 lbs that are nothing but electric motorcycles with pedals. Those Scramblers I was ranting about (and their innumerable knockoffs) being the prime example.