Anyone have anything they'd like to rant about?

[joetron]

I’m just here to say Please don’t tape and try to convert non-tubeless road rims to tubeless. I know we’re all dentists, but it’s hard to work on your own mouth .


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[J. Barron DeJong]

I’m just here to say Please don’t tape and try to convert non-tubeless road rims to tubeless. I know we’re all dentists, but it’s hard to work on your own mouth .


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Hadn’t crossed my mind, but now that you mention it…

Seriously though, I had enough issues the one time I converted mountain rims to tubeless. Would never think of trying it for road.

I was actually wondering if I’d go the other way and not actually run tubeless if I do get a new bike. Haven’t had a flat in ages - well, except when I crashed and broke my collarbone, but I wasn’t going to be up and riding there anyway.

[Lvovsky]

Direct to consumer for the win! Vitus, Polygon, Canyon etc

Anyone who needs (wants?) better than 105 groupset should expect to pay more. I got Vitus Zenium CR (105) in July 2020 for about $1800 plus &69 delivery. It’s $2100 now:

https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/...ganic-shopping

[XXX-er]

I’m just here to say Please don’t tape and try to convert non-tubeless road rims to tubeless. I know we’re all dentists, but it’s hard to work on your own mouth .


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yeah i recently tried this ^^ on some 15 yr old shimano rims and it SO did not work, i couldn't even get the UST tires on 15 yr old shimano rims cuz I was breaking plastic tire levers let alone have them anywhere near working

if you rims are made to work tubeless maybe

but DO NOT try to convert your 15 yr old road rims to tubeless

[J. Barron DeJong]

I think the following scenario has about an even chance of occurring:

This bike goes on sale in ‘my size’, even though I know it’s too aggressive a position:

https://www.canyon.com/en-us/road-bi...farbe=R100_P02

I ride the bike and get tremendous neck/shoulder/lower back/hand pain, and hang the bike up in the garage while I scour the internet for a deal on a SuperSix Hi Mod frame for the next two years while riding my 20 year old bike.

[J. Barron DeJong]

Anyone who needs (wants?) better than 105 groupset should expect to pay more.

As a reminder, my specific rant here is not that you need to pay more for Ultegra or Dura-Ace, or that those group sets are too expensive.

It’s that the manufacturer is swapping out - in simplified terms - $1500 worth of parts for $2500 worth of parts and charging $2k for the upgrade instead of $1k.

Like, I haven’t run the numbers, but I think there’s a very good chance I could buy a Lab 71 frame and all the parts individually for less than the price of the complete bike. That‘s not how things are supposed to work. And again, especially because the retail mark up on complete bikes is less than parts.

[climberevan]

You're forgetting that the main value add on top end road bikes is the signaling that they provide. When you roll up to the coffee shop to start the group ride in your full Assos kit and take the bicycle off of your Porsche, people can clearly see that you bought the most expensive one.

Bike companies have figured out that people will pay a $3000 premium for the distinctive paint job that only comes with that extra spend. That's why the frame only versions aren't available with that paint.

[simple]

It makes me happy that a few years ago I bought a Trek Madone with full 10 speed Dura-Ace and Project One custom paint for $500

[J. Barron DeJong]

You're forgetting that the main value add on top end road bikes is the signaling that they provide. When you roll up to the coffee shop to start the group ride in your full Assos kit and take the bicycle off of your Porsche, people can clearly see that you bought the most expensive one.

Bike companies have figured out that people will pay a $3000 premium for the distinctive paint job that only comes with that extra spend. That's why the frame only versions aren't available with that paint.

Those kinds of halo bikes have always been available. Maybe it was a team replica, or one that had all the lightest weight chi-chi parts, but there was usually also an offering that was basically the Ultegra bike but with Dura-Ace, and maybe a couple other small upgrades. And the price adder for that model was commensurate to the value of the upgrades.

Like, back in the day Cannondale would have a team replica with Campy Record, Spinergy wheels, Cinelli integrated bar and stem, etc. and it was pretty expensive.

But they also had an R5000 with Dura-Ace, which was basically the same bike as an Ultegra R3000 (2000?, 4000?), and the price adder was commensurate to the value of the parts upgrade.

What I don’t understand is why that non-signaling model seems to have dropped from everyones product line (except Canyon). A shortage of Dura-Ace groupsets could explain it, but I don’t know if that’s the case.

[J. Barron DeJong]

It makes me happy that a few years ago I bought a Trek Madone with full 10 speed Dura-Ace and Project One custom paint for $500

That’s pretty similar to what I’m on right now. And my bike works great. I have no need to get anything new, but I’d like to!

And I’d like to have the opportunity to give companies even more of my money than they’d get from me purchasing an Ultegra bike, but I don’t want to be ripped off.

[singlesline]

I’m just here to say Please don’t tape and try to convert non-tubeless road rims to tubeless. I know we’re all dentists, but it’s hard to work on your own mouth .


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Yes, don't try to do it on your skinny 15+ year old rims.

But ~10 years ago they were selling a lot of tubeless-compatible rims even though people weren't widely embracing it on the road yet. Especially on the wider profile rims that work well with the tires you'd actually want to run tubeless (will sealant even work on a skinny super high PSI tire?)

Zipp waited until 2016 to go tubeless, but Shimano, Bontrager and others were putting out OEM rims that were tubeless ready to go with a bit of tape.

[singlesline]

That’s pretty similar to what I’m on right now. And my bike works great. I have no need to get anything new, but I’d like to!

And I’d like to have the opportunity to give companies even more of my money than they’d get from me purchasing an Ultegra bike, but I don’t want to be ripped off.

I'd mostly say just buy the Ultegra bike then--it is really good right now and the weight penalty is fairly small. Dura Ace is just bling for bling's sake with identical shifting performance.

It didn't sound like you gained much else on the Cannondale example besides the 40g lighter frame, paint, and group. All the other improvements except the silly BB were cockpit things that might not fit you anyways (who cares if the saddle is better if it doesn't fit your taint).

And maybe that's your answer--Ultegra is so good that there's no reason to spec DA on anything except the Halo model as you just won't get a lot of sales. A DTC like Canyon can still do it as the bike may not actually exist when you order it, but it is harder for a company that needs to push inventory out into bike shops.


For the record, in order to answer my own rant about today's bikes vs 10 year old bikes, I watched some shitty youtube videos last night. There were a couple other pieces I didn't pick up on for new bikes like improved/internal cable routing and much more attention paid to aero considerations on "normal" bikes.

But the biggest seemed to be significantly improved overall ride quality. The 10 year old bike may have identical geometry and be equally stiff in the pedaling dimension, but the new bike just rode smoother. I suspect a lot of that is due to running larger tubeless tires (nobody I watched was willing to run the same tires on both bikes even if the old bike had room/rim width to handle a 30c tubeless)...but there's also an element of the bike manufacturers getting better at carbon layups and designing frames that ride more comfortably while still being stiff where it counts.

So I see some value in the new breed of road machines. If I were in the market, I still think I'd be temped to go with a good deal on an older frame that still had disc brakes/clearance for 30c and a budget for parts upgrades...but comfort is valuable if you're planning to spend a lot of time in the saddle.

[simple]

If I were in the market for a road bike i would buy a custom steel frame bike and be satisfied with the components for the next 20 years.

[toast2266]

If I were in the market for a road bike, I'd re-read this thread about 5 pages back and re-affirm the notion that those things are a deathwish.

[J. Barron DeJong]

I'd mostly say just buy the Ultegra bike then--it is really good right now and the weight penalty is fairly small. Dura Ace is just bling for bling's sake with identical shifting performance.

It didn't sound like you gained much else on the Cannondale example besides the 40g lighter frame, paint, and group. All the other improvements except the silly BB were cockpit things that might not fit you anyways (who cares if the saddle is better if it doesn't fit your taint).

And maybe that's your answer--Ultegra is so good that there's no reason to spec DA on anything except the Halo model as you just won't get a lot of sales. A DTC like Canyon can still do it as the bike may not actually exist when you order it, but it is harder for a company that needs to push inventory out into bike shops.


For the record, in order to answer my own rant about today's bikes vs 10 year old bikes, I watched some shitty youtube videos last night. There were a couple other pieces I didn't pick up on for new bikes like improved/internal cable routing and much more attention paid to aero considerations on "normal" bikes.

But the biggest seemed to be significantly improved overall ride quality. The 10 year old bike may have identical geometry and be equally stiff in the pedaling dimension, but the new bike just rode smoother. I suspect a lot of that is due to running larger tubeless tires (nobody I watched was willing to run the same tires on both bikes even if the old bike had room/rim width to handle a 30c tubeless)...but there's also an element of the bike manufacturers getting better at carbon layups and designing frames that ride more comfortably while still being stiff where it counts.

So I see some value in the new breed of road machines. If I were in the market, I still think I'd be temped to go with a good deal on an older frame that still had disc brakes/clearance for 30c and a budget for parts upgrades...but comfort is valuable if you're planning to spend a lot of time in the saddle.

Buying an Ultegra bike instead of Dura-Ace is obviously the rational choice for pretty much every rider.

Regarding ‘identical’ shifting performance between the two groups, I’ve heard that, but I also heard the same thing 20 years ago, and while Ultegra worked great, Dura-Ace did work even better. So I guess I’m skeptical of the claim, but it could be true now.

[J. Barron DeJong]

If I were in the market for a road bike, I'd re-read this thread about 5 pages back and re-affirm the notion that those things are a deathwish.

There are so many places where I wouldn’t road ride - back in Maryland, for one - but I feel pretty comfortable on the roads I have access to.

If riding head-on into traffic seemed like the safer option, I don’t think I’d ride on those roads.

[beaterdit]

Used to road bike a fair amount when I lived in Durango, not as much here in Salt Lake. Nice options but the drivers make it just plain scary and it's only getting worse. Bike spends most of its life on the trainer.

I'd definitely never spring for Dura Ace or equivalent. Never tried it so I don't know but my Ultegra hydro stuff is money. Also never sprung for XTR or XX, being more of an XT/XO guy so maybe it's just me. Ultegra/XT/XO is still bling IMO and works great. All that said, not in the market for myself, or prolly at all but this caught my eye for the Lady. Screamin deal for for a very nice, practical roady without a bunch of weird proprietary BS. Pretty too, haha.

As far as riding against traffic, seems worse for a variety of reasons but most of all- You're kidding yourself if you think you could avoid a car that swerves toward you at 30-40+ mph. Several years ago a friend was riding uphill and got hit head on by a distracted driver going the other way who swerved across the other lane and onto the shoulder. Six months in hospital then rehab. Tracheostomy, feeding tube, and a new look with a titanium face. He's good now but it took a couple years and he's still just plain lucky his brain is mostly OK, now. That same week, a local Judge I had recently met for Jury selection was hit in the next canyon over in the same exact scenario. Dead. If that car swerves at you you're ticket's up.

[brutah]

Took the dog for bike ride today. Near the trailhead, I put him on the lease and cross a road. Dog runs behind my bike and I drop the leash, it gets sucked into my rear wheel and bends my chain before I can stop. Glad it was just my chain but still annoyed at the $50ish dollar dog walk. Only had around 300ish miles on it too, may try to salvage it.....

I can tell differences in chain price levels. XT/XO and above do last longer. Shimano chains seem to be stronger/last longer than SRAM chains, at least ime. (Not talking about the new SRAM transmission stuff btw)

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[XXX-er]

try bending it back and btw at 240$ an hr/ 2hr min we didnt bend anything

its a forming adjustment

[J. Barron DeJong]

I'd definitely never spring for Dura Ace or equivalent. Never tried it so I don't know but my Ultegra hydro stuff is money. Also never sprung for XTR or XX, being more of an XT/XO guy so maybe it's just me. Ultegra/XT/XO is still bling IMO and works great.

No doubt XT/Ultegra work fantastic. The only way I justify the upgrade to Dura-Ace is that unlike mountain bikes, the parts are never going to be replaced due to crashes, and the wear rate on them is drastically lower than on MTB, so the price is basically a one time hit, and then I’m also going to be keeping the bike for well over a decade, so that hit is spread out.

Canyon’s non-halo Dura-Ace bike is ‘only’ $1500 more than the Ultegra bike, and that includes a wheel upgrade from DT Swiss 1400 to the top end 1100. Seems reasonable, or at least not obscene, to me, even if totally unnecessary.

I’ve never considered buying a new XTR bike before since I end up replacing too many parts. (However, my current bike is actually XTR, because I had pre-ordered an XT build that got cancelled due to Covid shortages, and ended up buying a used two month old XTR version from a shop employee on the other side of the country for the same price I was originally going to pay.)

[XXX-er]

after 2 yrs of running NX on the E-bike I'm scoping out a replacement drive train, it sure is a whole bunch cheaper buying NX than the higher priced stuff and it really worked fine IME

so I'm just gona replace it with the exact same thing, just order the same shit from CRC same chain/ tires/ brake pads/ drivetrain no fucking around hoping that it will work

[Falcon3]

after 2 yrs of running NX on the E-bike I'm scoping out a replacement drive train, it sure is a whole bunch cheaper buying NX than the higher priced stuff and it really worked fine IME

so I'm just gona replace it with the exact same thing, just order the same shit from CRC same chain/ tires/ brake pads/ drivetrain no fucking around hoping that it will work

The best NX upgrade is to throw the whole group away and buy Shimano Deore. Shimano absolutely has the trickle-down figured out. SRAM just makes NX and SX so people will think of GX as a "premium" option equivalent of XT.

[XXX-er]

YMMV but I had XT before the NX and IME it wasnt any better

fox 36 wasn't really any better than ZEB

Obviously this is all bullshit or i am not much of a dentist

[evdog]

Does anyone know anyone who got a ticket for texting/using phone while driving? I have not heard of such tickets ever.

My boss at a past company got pulled over multiple times for talking on his phone while driving. After riding with him in the car a couple times it was easy to see why. He wouldn't use hands free and was weaving all over the lane. It was both scary and mind blowing that he seemed so oblivious to how bad he was driving.

[Canada1]

Stung on the cheek bone twice yesterday by something. I look like I got the shit kicked out of me.