time for a new car...

[avacadotoast]

Funny, I’m currently shopping for just about the same type of vehicle – except I’m going wagon cause I’m a gay retard. I’ve narrowed it down to the Subaru Legacy GT, Volvo V50 T5AWD (S40 wagon). If you care about reliability don’t buy the Pas-shat!! I have a 2000 and the thing has been a nightmare – replaced 1 EGR valve, 2 mass airflow sensors and 3 belly-pans (because they don’t put them back on correctly - $200 a pop) and paid them $400 to not fix a "chirping" suspension - not to mention my side mirrors and sunroof haven’t worked since about 50k miles and the key-less locks only lock the doors occasionally - plus the 40k & 80k services are astronomical $. You can’t even get an oil change anywhere but the dealer because no one knows how to deal with the belly-pans (a plastic cover under the engine). Unless you lease and will get rid of the car before the warranty is up, I would say stay away from VW – unless, of course, you get that ’02 for under $18k with the 40k service thrown in!! Do I sound bitter?!

Here are the specs on my 2 finalists….I hope it helps for at least a comparison….

Suby w/ all options I want – List: $29,247, Invoice: $26,544 – you should be able to get these puppies for close to invoice and if you go by the 31st they have $500 cash back and low interest rates (1.9% 24 mo, 2.9% 36-48 mo, 3.9% 63 mo )

Volvo w/ similar options – List: $31,905, Invoice: $29,921 – these should go close to invoice too and till the 31st they’re giving $1,850 cash back or 2.9% 60mo financing.

Just for a comparison I also scoped the Audi A4 Avant 2.0 w/ similar stuff (I added the 17" wheels and sport suspension to match the performance of the other two) – List: $32,370, Invoice: $30,057 – unfortunately these puppies will go closer to list price than invoice - and no incentives that I found.

Volvo’s reliability is supposed to be phenomenal but I don’t know for sure – we know Suby’s good. All of these cars rip performance wise and will get you up the hill in style!!

[cj001f]

Volvo’s reliability is supposed to be phenomenal but I don’t know for sure – we know Suby’s good. All of these cars rip performance wise and will get you up the hill in style!!

The volvo in question is sourced from the Ford/Mazda parts bin. Go with the Subaru.

R32 is overrated. 2 coworkers had them. Fun, but only for VW nuts.

Honda/Toyota is the way to go for reliabilty. Acura MDX, Toyota Highlander, the like.

[Elin]

[QUOTE=Superstar Punani]

Budget $15-20k
My choice/recommendations:
1) '99-00 4Runner (manual tranny)
2) '96 Subie Outback (<$9k)
3) Audi Avant A4 wagon
4) '99-00 Range Rover HSE

As much as the Range Rovers are nice cars... I had a friend who was both British and a formula one driver, had a range rover, and hated it. (and he of all people should have loved it)... It turned to shit at less than 100k. Plus the maintenance is MUCHO expensive.


Although lately every car in our driveway has turned to shit at 100k, they just don't cost what a range rover would to repair


good luck with the car search

[Steezus Christ]

Pasats do not hold their value very well.

[altagirl]

You guys rock.

We just searched the auto trader and found a couple more in the better price range - i.e. same thing I just test drove but for more like 19k instead of 22k. And an audi quattro that looks nice too and is 20k.

Anyway the passat handles really nicely, is super quiet, looks beautiful and has all the bells and whistles I had no idea I needed. But I still think I need a manual transmission. Auto just sucks all the fun out of driving. Tiptronic is better but still not the same.

[truth]

So uh... I'm at the vw dealer and they have a 2002 passat awd, leather, tiptronic, v6 for 22k. He's going to let me drive it home to show it to mr.ag. Drives sweet I all the bells and whistles... Is this a good deal? 37k miles on it.

Owning a VAG (VW / Audi) post warranty is a BAD idea. Regardless of the price. AG...buy what you can afford to get new. For the $$$ the Hyundai Santa Fe is my pick, we (the company I formerly worked for) have 3 of them now in our corporate fleet and have had 0 problems. The warranty on those things is killer as well.

[zion zig zag]

AG...buy what you can afford to get new.

Why? So you can lose a bunch of money?

[truth]

Why? So you can lose a bunch of money?

No, so you can live with a warranty and not lose a bunch of money fixing a car that someone else allready broke.

[cj001f]

Why? So you can lose a bunch of money?

With how desperate dealers are to sell new cars right now, it's not that much.

[zion zig zag]

No, so you can live with a warranty and not lose a bunch of money fixing a car that someone else allready broke.

If you buy a car a year or two old you're already ahead buy a few thousand. I haven't had a car payment in over 5 years, if I have to throw a couple hundred dollars towards a repair every once in a while, i'm still WAY ahead. Besides, how many problems are you going to have with a car with less than 75,000 miles on it?

[truth]

If you buy a car a year or two old you're already ahead buy a few thousand. I haven't had a car payment in over 5 years, if I have to throw a couple hundred dollars towards a repair every once in a while, i'm still WAY ahead. Besides, how many problems are you going to have with a car with less than 75,000 miles on it?

Heh...I guess it's all a matter of perspective. Just remmeber, AG is not looking for transportation, she's looking for something with a certain image and quality to more accurately present the aura she needs to sell $600,000 homes. While a used Passat may have nice gizmos and gadgets the cars are prone to costly repairs and I know from experience that i'd never own one out of warranty. Actually, I'll never own a daily driver out of warranty.

A Hyundai has a 10 year 100,000 mile powertrain warranty. That's something to ponder.

Not having a car payment with interest rates as low as they are is nothing to brag about. Is it really cheaper to pay cash for a used car than it is to float a new car? Hmmm...guess it depends on your math. AG is looking at 22k for a used Passat, I'm pretty sure she's gonna finance that one way or another (I could be wrong) but is it better to finance 22k worth of used VW or 22k worth of new Hyundai (or the like)? That's the real question here.

[avacadotoast]

A Hyundai has a 10 year 100,000 mile powertrain warranty. That's something to ponder.

Actually VWs have a 100k powertrain warranty too - I haven't figured out what's in the powertrain though...

My $0.02 - nicer used cars are more of a commodity nowadays and go for a higher % of new car price than they used to (especially from a dealer) - as evidenced by a $22k '02 that probably was what, $29k, 3 years ago (I know low miles....but those are the best miles!)!!

[altagirl]

Owning a VAG (VW / Audi) post warranty is a BAD idea. Regardless of the price. AG...buy what you can afford to get new. For the $$$ the Hyundai Santa Fe is my pick, we (the company I formerly worked for) have 3 of them now in our corporate fleet and have had 0 problems. The warranty on those things is killer as well.

It's not post warranty though. As a certified pre-owned, he said it would have another 50,000 miles of warranty on it under their plan.

But I know what you're saying. It would be damn nice to actually buy a NEW car. I've never had one. And esp. since I would prefer a manual transmission, it would be nice to have one that I'm the only one driving it, not taking something that's been abused. I had a Mitsubishi that I put 178,000 miles on the original clutch. And my Subaru's clutch went out at 48,000 miles after I bought it used with 14,000 miles on it. I have a hard time believing it was my driving that changed.

Still looking and I'll be doing some more test driving and research. But keep throwing ideas my way. I appreciate all the input!

[Spats]

The way to save the most money, and have the most peace of mind, is to buy a reliable car brand new, and keep it until it dies. If you look at the resale on most Hondas and Toyotas, you save hardly anything by buying a couple years used.

I've got over 90K on my Nissan, which I bought new. Sum of problems so far:
1) Taillight went out twice -- fixed under warranty.
2) Door switch left dome light on sometimes. Fixed itself after a few weeks.

Scheduled services were all under $400, including brake jobs. I have had zero unscheduled maintenance. It's still on the original belts, hoses, water pump, etc.

Try that with a VW, Audi, Volvo, Subaru, or even a BMW or Mercedes!

I still think a Honda Pilot is what you need.

[Jumper Bones]

Umm, I spent my high school years driving a Volvo 242GT, with over 350,000 miles on it. Original motor and transmission.

Current 245 is a 1990 with 175000 miles, I just replaced a fuel pump and a mass airflow sensor. Still not bad.

I know newer Volvos are Ford-owned/sourced...but Subies are GM owned/shared (Saab 9-2x Saabaru anyone?), you tell me which is the worse corporate parent.

[Dingo]

The way to save the most money, and have the most peace of mind, is to buy a reliable car brand new, and keep it until it dies. If you look at the resale on most Hondas and Toyotas, you save hardly anything by buying a couple years used.

I'm curious: what are the numbers to support that statement? Not saying it's wrong; it just seems to run counter to most advice I've heard, which is that a car's depreciation is steepest in the first year or two. It seems like the best choice would be to buy a two-year-old Honda or Toyota. The original owner has taken the depreciation hit, yet the car is still sound of mind and body.

No?

P.S. Altagirl: if reliability is a concern, I'd advise against a VW or Audi. I understand the appeal of the Passat, and the A4, but friends of mine who once owned 'em have sworn to never, ever own 'em again. Do some research online re: reliability...particularly in the sometimes-hard-to-diagnose electrical components. Ouch!

EDITED for Altagirl vs -chic. Sorry!

[Alioops]

Now I LOVE my Tacoma, but I just got done taking a cruise in a brand spankin new GMC Denali. It was sweet. Real sweet.

[truth]

It seems like the best choice would be to buy a two-year-old Honda or Toyota. The original owner has taken the depreciation hit, yet the car is still sound of mind and body.

No?

Sure, but you'll NEVER know what that "original" owner did to the car during the first 2 years. It's pretty easy to cover up some serious shit with very little effort. I know I'd hate to be the guy that ended up buying the 2000 Audi A4 I traded in.

AG, CPO is a great way to go used, I'm in a CPO BMW right now and have had 0 issues with the car or dealing with the CPO coverage. I'd buy CPO again without hesitation, but you do pay a premium for it and it's tough to say if you get past some of that depreciation hit or not. I guess it depends on the car. I know in my case I saved close to $14,000 buying a CPO car with 16,000 miles on it vs new.

[altagirl]

The way to save the most money, and have the most peace of mind, is to buy a reliable car brand new, and keep it until it dies. If you look at the resale on most Hondas and Toyotas, you save hardly anything by buying a couple years used.

Here's the thing - the two cars that I've owned for a long time were:

Eagle Talon - I bought it with maybe 40k miles for like $5000 and drove it HARD (in Germany - over 100mph probably 50% of the time) to 178000 miles and it required no maintenance, ever. I got in an accident and had to replace the taillight. Brake pads, a new battery, and tires and that was all I ever did to it. It died shortly thereafter, but I never had a problem with that car, and I've never heard a person on earth rave about the reliability of a Talon.

But everyone does go on and on about how reliable Subarus are. And I love the way mine drives, but I've had problems with the clutch (detailed earlier), an electrical wiring problem where the wiring going through the headliner/roof section was cut (how the hell does that happen?), no kidding like 15 replaced headlights and tailllights - like every time I get the oil changed. Power steering leak, multiple problems over the years with the ABS system (EXPENSIVE TO FIX). Rear windshield wiper doesn't work. Interior dome light hasn't worked in years. 3 or 4 sets of spark plug wires. I've been in to have them tell me what the "check engine" light is on for more times than I can remember. I got the timing belt replaced at the dealer and they didn't tighten things back up correctly so something fell apart, the belt started skipping and I had to bring it back in so they could fix all that shit. And in the past few weeks the return spring on the brake pedal was causing the brake light to come on after I parked it and making the battery go dead in the middle of the night. It was an easy (and free) fix once we figured out what it was - but 2 mornings of dead batteries and 87 people coming into the office telling me my taillights were on for a week or so was a PITA. I LOVE the way it drives, but damn, it nickel and dimes me to death.

I guess my point is that the cars people think of as reliable or unreliable don't all end up living up to their reputation. I think buying something with a good warranty is probably more important to me, considering my personal experience.

Anyway - while I used to be looking for cars I was going to drive for 200,000 miles, this is going to be a little different. Since it's for sales and stuff, I'm envisioning buying something that I'm pretty much going to drive until the warranty is up at most and then get something else. I think I'm still going to consider CPO vehicles as well as new - whatever still has a good warranty left and is in good shape.

And I just don't like the appearance of the Pilot. Too much like a forester crossed with a minivan. And I had to learn to drive in a minivan and I'm not ever planning on driving one again...

[sanjuanworm]

ag, have you checked out the NISSAN MURANO?
it sounds like what you want.

sounds like you got a Suby w/ issues.
not all are like that. i got a few.

you want a decent ride to show high dollar properties.
do not go w/ the audi. or the VW.

[altagirl]

ag, have you checked out the NISSAN MURANO?
it sounds like what you want.

sounds like you got a Suby w/ issues.
not all are like that. i got a few.

Actually - that looks pretty nice. I'll have to go and test drive one of those.

And I know my Suby situation is not the norm. I'm still considering another one - I just want to check out my other AWD options.

[shamrockpow]

Sounds like you just got unlucky with the Subaru. I'm pushing 80K on a 2000 Outback that my Dad bought new and we've put in approximately $0 for unscheduled (and non-accident related) work.

[cj001f]

I know newer Volvos are Ford-owned/sourced...but Subies are GM owned/shared (Saab 9-2x Saabaru anyone?), you tell me which is the worse corporate parent.

The difference is GM is rebadging Subarus as Saabs, ford is rebadging ford/mazda parts as Volvos. And the rebadged ford parts are coming from a car that costs 50% of the S40/V50 - the Focus. Then there's moves like this Ford tells Volvo to de-emphasize roof strength they may still be good cars, it's not a bet I'd place relative to the competition.

[sanjuanworm]

is your Suby a wagon?
whatcha want for it?
sunroof?

[altagirl]

is your Suby a wagon?
whatcha want for it?
sunroof?

1997 Impreza Outback Sport Wagon. Green w/gray cloth interior. No sunroof. $4,800 (which is the blue book value in fair condition - I'd say it's at the upper end of the "fair" description). It works fine - it's just the little piddly crap I mentioned, I just had the emissions and safety done yesterday when I did my annual registration. There's some paint chips, little rust spots (only on the roof for some reason) etc. It has snow tires on it that are still in good condition. No alloy wheels but I have the hubcaps that came on it in a cabinet in the garage that I can put back on - I just painted the steel rims black.