time for a new car...

[maddog]

Sorry, I meant to say piece of poo poo.

[altagirl]

Here's something nobody's suggested. The Toyota Matrix. Good gas milage, Toyota reliability, 4 wheel drive, comfortable front and back, and you can buy two of them for what you would pay for for a piece of shit, trouble waiting to happen, bmw or Volvo (Ford). Plus they look cool too! My last Toyota went 305,000 miles in 20 years... never stranded me, never in the shop. Not once!

Hey, I get where you're coming from. 6 months ago I fully intended on keeping my subaru for... forever, basically. And that used to be my criteria for buying a car - spend very little money for something preferably used but reliable, reasonably fun to drive and useful for carrying bikes and skis; pay it off fast and drive it until it's dead, because that seemed like the cost effective way of doing things. This is a totally new purchasing decision process for me - involving business considerations, tax deductions, and plans to not keep whatever I buy for more than about 3 years, before the warranty runs out. I've never even owned a car that had a factory warranty on it before, if that says anything.

I will head over to a Toyota dealer though to check out what they have though, seeing as how much I dig the comparison shopping anyway. There are still a few things I still want to look at, but so far I really dig the Volvo.

[Monique]

If you're thinking about the X3 don't test drive the X5 because there's no turning back once you do...BTW the X5 weighs 6005 lbs which means it qualifies for George Effing W Bush's commercial vehicle tax deduction. Basically I'm deducting about a $10k per year depreciation and so driving it for the net cost of a car 1/2 to 2/3 the price. I did hear a rumor that particular deduction's going away, though. Good luck--

[Superstar Punani]

If you're thinking about the X3 don't test drive the X5 because there's no turning back once you do...BTW the X5 weighs 6005 lbs which means it qualifies for George Effing W Bush's commercial vehicle tax deduction. Basically I'm deducting about a $10k per year depreciation and so driving it for the net cost of a car 1/2 to 2/3 the price. I did hear a rumor that particular deduction's going away, though. Good luck--

That's a sweet deduction! Do you need to use it for work-related stuff, or can you just buy that, and add it to your itemized deductions?

I thought about getting one but not sure how it would hold up to 35k miles / year driving, with Bring My Wallet maintenance costs.

[FollowMe]

If I had to take a shot in the dark, I'd guess that the "commercial" vehicle tax deduction (if there is such a thing), is probably limited to "work related stuff".

[ulty_guy]

sorry to throw a monkey wrench in here, but you're kind of comparing apples to oranges w/ the v50 and the x3. you should give the 325xi (sedan or wagon) a ride as well and compare that to the v50, probably around the same price and besides the clearance issues, a better ride than the x3. that said i'm a volvo traditionalist and do really like the look of the v50. the design is 100% volvo's and it is ford infact that's lifted the design and is now using a dumbed down version of the platform for the new focus that is supposed to be just about the best small car ever.

for volvo lovers, check out their concept car site. i really can't wait till the ACC2 comes out, sweetness.

http://www.volvocars.com/AboutVolvo/conceptlab/

[ulty_guy]

also another major consideration, the X5 had the highest crash rating ever from the insurance institue for highway safety, that counts huge in my book. the V50 also got a stellar rating (or course, it's a volvo), but sometimes, unfortunately w/ so many large trucks around, it's as much a matter of mass as anything.

A 2001 BMW X5 3.0 with 30,000 miles might squeak in around your price range, and most have 100,000 mile warranties. I bought mine used two years ago, after a nasty accident that totaled another rig. The biggest selling point for me at that time was the X5's stellar safety ratings. .

[altagirl]

If I had to take a shot in the dark, I'd guess that the "commercial" vehicle tax deduction (if there is such a thing), is probably limited to "work related stuff".

Someone posted a link earlier in the thread to the details of what you need to do to make this work, but yes, I believe it was a minimum of 50% work related, etc.

From what people were telling me at work (still need to check w/my accountant), you can deduct the full cost of lease payments plus mileage anyway for what I'm doing, so the way I'm understanding it at the moment it would work out regardless.

And I agree - I went from apples to oranges. I didn't really mean to, but I went to the Volvo dealer and they don't have an equivalent to the Murano/X3, they just have an equivalent to the X5. Which I think I'm going to call out of the price range and not test drive so I'm not tempted... I can go back and check out the BMW wagon though. I don't think Nissan has an equivalent to that style.

[The AD]

I can go back and check out the BMW wagon though.

Do it. BMW is coming out with their new 3 series for '06, so you can probably get some great deals on the '05 sedans and wagons.

[cj001f]

sorry to throw a monkey wrench in here, but you're kind of comparing apples to oranges w/ the v50 and the x3. you should give the 325xi (sedan or wagon) a ride as well and compare that to the v50, probably around the same price and besides the clearance issues, a better ride than the x3. that said i'm a volvo traditionalist and do really like the look of the v50. the design is 100% volvo's and it is ford infact that's lifted the design and is now using a dumbed down version of the platform for the new focus that is supposed to be just about the best small car ever.

The c1/p1 platform (S40/V50/Mazda3) was a Ford/Volvo/Mazda collaboration. It ain't 100% Volvo. The BMW xDrive system (525xi, 530xi, x3, X5) allows full range of power/torque change front to rear. Good for snow. 325xi is less trick, less nice for snow.

Definitely look at the Inifiniti/Lexus AWD sedans

[avacadotoast]

Nice vehicles...and the right one is in the lead!!

Just be careful with their lease talk - don't take any crap. A lease is merely a loan with a defined purchase price, end value of the car (buy out) and interest rate - and you pay the interest and enough principle each month to get the loan from the purchase price to the end value at the end of the lease. So make sure you know all the lease terms and negotiate a low purchase price, a high end value (this may be set based on the annual milage - not sure) and a low interest rate. To give you a frame of reference if the car is $32k - $4k trade in (so $27k) with an end of lease buy out of $18k, 30 month lease at 5% your monthly payment would be $430.29....this goes up roughly $30 a month for each $1000 higher purchase or lower end of lease value - and visa versa. Also, you can get a lease from other sources besides the dealer - they're not as common as they were in the 90's though.

Hopefully I didn't confuse - I have that effect on people! Good luck...

[mcsquared]

I agree with Corky. Watch out for the leasing deal. That is an easy way for them to get you to pay full retail for the vehicle. I mean whats the difference between 360/month and 390/month? If I were you I would get preapproval from a bank or credit union with a low interest rate to buy a car and go in there prepared to write a check for the vehicle. Don't discuss monthly payments. Discuss purchase price. Go armed with print outs from edmunds.com etc. Then once you nail down the purchase price, then say "ok, what if I wanted to lease this vehicle at this price?"

Also the tax benefits exist if you buy the vehicle too. You get to depreciate the vehicle (which would be substantial in the first years and less so in the future) and get to write off a good portion of you payments (I think the interest component) Also, if you itemize deductions don't forget to write off the sales tax that you paid for the vehicle.

[mr_gyptian]

If you're thinking about the X3 don't test drive the X5 because there's no turning back once you do...BTW the X5 weighs 6005 lbs which means it qualifies for George Effing W Bush's commercial vehicle tax deduction. Basically I'm deducting about a $10k per year depreciation and so driving it for the net cost of a car 1/2 to 2/3 the price. I did hear a rumor that particular deduction's going away, though. Good luck--

it is gone(on SUV's). and it was a clinton deduction too (up to $25K). Bush's plan upped it to $100K for two years.

[Foggy_Goggles]

Nice vehicles...and the right one is in the lead!!

Just be careful with their lease talk - don't take any crap. A lease is merely a loan with a defined purchase price, end value of the car (buy out) and interest rate - and you pay the interest and enough principle each month to get the loan from the purchase price to the end value at the end of the lease. So make sure you know all the lease terms and negotiate a low purchase price, a high end value (this may be set based on the annual milage - not sure) and a low interest rate. To give you a frame of reference if the car is $32k - $4k trade in (so $27k) with an end of lease buy out of $18k, 30 month lease at 5% your monthly payment would be $430.29....this goes up roughly $30 a month for each $1000 higher purchase or lower end of lease value - and visa versa. Also, you can get a lease from other sources besides the dealer - they're not as common as they were in the 90's though.

Hopefully I didn't confuse - I have that effect on people! Good luck...

Car dealer hater people like you and me. When you want to talk price the proper words are, "I need to talk to your finance manager". The car dealers' business model is honestly built around the fact that people have no idea about personal finance. Don't sign anything without reading it fully, refuse to sign what you don't understand, ask to take the paperwork home to review etc. Also, the auto broker suggestion is dead on. Unless you think who have significantly better than average negotianting skills, the $500-$1000 is well spent.

[Monique]

That's a sweet deduction! Do you need to use it for work-related stuff, or can you just buy that, and add it to your itemized deductions?

I thought about getting one but not sure how it would hold up to 35k miles / year driving, with Bring My Wallet maintenance costs.

I'm self employed so that's why it works. If the deduction has disappeared I hope it's effective '05 not '04 or I'm screwed! In terms of maintenance costs, yeah an oil change costs about $100 but it's synthetic oil so you only do it every 12,000 to 15,000 miles (instead of $30-50 every 3,000 miles). So far it hasn't been bad at all (edit for jinx). I pile the miles on as well so my one concern is ending up in three years with a car whose theoretical resale value is $15,000 but has 150,000 miles on it so no one will touch it. But for my situation the tax implications make it all work out in the end regardless.

[The AD]

In terms of maintenance costs, yeah an oil change costs about $100 but it's synthetic oil so you only do it every 12,000 to 15,000 miles (instead of $30-50 every 3,000 miles).

BMW also has free scheduled maintenance for 4 years or 50,000 miles.

[Snow Dog]

I agree with Corky. Watch out for the leasing deal. That is an easy way for them to get you to pay full retail for the vehicle.

Leasing is all over the map. When I was leasing, FYI, my favorite dealer starts at the dealer cost, not the retail, determines the residual, and works out the payment from there (based on some effective interest rate). At the end of the term there's only the residual -- no milage or other extra charges. If the actual value is lower then I pay the difference. If it's higher then I get a cheque. The vehicle is usually presold since there's a good list of buyers looking for off lease vehicles.

[Jumper Bones]

for volvo lovers, check out their concept car site. i really can't wait till the ACC2 comes out, sweetness.

http://www.volvocars.com/AboutVolvo/conceptlab/

So, I take it it's a V50-based XC? I really like it myself. Can't say I care for the styling of the current V-70XC, I liked the 97-00 models better.

[mr_gyptian]

Someone posted a link earlier in the thread to the details of what you need to do to make this work, but yes, I believe it was a minimum of 50% work related, etc.

From what people were telling me at work (still need to check w/my accountant), you can deduct the full cost of lease payments plus mileage anyway for what I'm doing, so the way I'm understanding it at the moment it would work out regardless.

And I agree - I went from apples to oranges. I didn't really mean to, but I went to the Volvo dealer and they don't have an equivalent to the Murano/X3, they just have an equivalent to the X5. Which I think I'm going to call out of the price range and not test drive so I'm not tempted... I can go back and check out the BMW wagon though. I don't think Nissan has an equivalent to that style.

make sure you stick to a two year or three year lease. four and five year leases make it extremely easy to get to your payment.

one of my friends just leased a Murano. $1500 due at signing. 3yr/36000 lease. he bought the wearcare option(don't know what Nissan calls it). his payment is @ $375. I gave him an X-Plan pin and he couldn't do better with Volvo XC70.

[ulty_guy]

The c1/p1 platform (S40/V50/Mazda3) was a Ford/Volvo/Mazda collaboration. It ain't 100% Volvo.

right you are, whoops.

[EPSkis]

The "advantage" of a lease is simple: You only pay for what you use in the car. If you like it - keep it. If you don't - hand the keys back at the end. (You're not married to the car as you are on a traditional "buy".)


Personally, I drive WAAAY too many miles a year to make a lease sensible. Of course, if a *payment* is your biggest concern, then a lease is certainly an option worth exploring. If you drive the "typical" 12000-18000 miles a year, then you can do quite well with a lease.

If you prefer to BUY the car, then remember you can usually stretch your payments out to 72mos. Sometimes it can make the difference in what you're comfortable with in terms of a monthly payment.

FWIW, AG - If you need info on Toyotas, shoot me a PM. I'd be happy to get you whatever info you need as far as pricing, programs, etc.

[Foggy_Goggles]

If you prefer to BUY the car, then remember you can usually stretch your payments out to 72mos. Sometimes it can make the difference in what you're comfortable with in terms of a monthly payment.

or the salesman selling the car. Come on EP, your smart enough to know that this is a sucker bet. Why would you intentially go upside down on a asset? You can never sell a vehicle financed for 6yrs for more that you owe. The financing costs are rediculous. Also, your insurance pays blue book not what you owe in the event of a wreck.

Foggy's top 3 personal finance errors:

1. Not having a budget/financial plan/goals, no matter how simple. How do you know if you are winning or losing with out keeping score.
2. Not understanding the difference between savings and investments. Know your risk/reward paradigm.
3. Poor financing decisions. Long term auto loans and credit card debt are the two biggest culprits.

[Below Zero]

or the salesman selling the car. Come on EP, your smart enough to know that this is a sucker bet. Why would you intentially go upside down on a asset? You can never sell a vehicle financed for 6yrs for more that you owe. The financing costs are rediculous. Also, your insurance pays blue book not what you owe in the event of a wreck.

Word! Never finance for longer than 5 years!

[EPSkis]

As I said - it's an option for those people that are concerned about a monthly payment. I'm not sure where "salesman" fits into that conversation, but just so I understand you two:

You're against making 12 more payments, regardless of interest rate or the difference it makes in your payments?

[The AD]

Word! Never finance for longer than 5 years!

So how come no one balks at mortgaging a house for 30 years? Yes, obviously a house involves a much higher monthly payment in general, but it's the same thing. Yes, you'll pay a lot less interest with a 15 year loan, but if you can't afford to make the higher monthly payment it's a moot point.