Buying a 10+ year old car what could go wrong?

[Mazderati]

Wait. You're saying a late model, low mileage example less engine costs $7,000?

[liv2ski]

^^^ Right And for this jong the wide body 964 would work $$$$$, but barring that, I would go 997 all day long. I love that car.

[Cono Este]

I would not buy a used porsche without talking to an old school Porsche mechanic. There are some very bad yrs, and some good yrs. My 993 leaked when it rained. Spent thousands trying to find the source then punted. Early. 996 had bad engine seals too, not aligned and required top end rebuilds. My guy Gunther told me kate 80's were bullet proof.

[Bromontana]

Engine alignment on a 996 can be brutal. Some engines with poor internal alignment are 'refreshed' with new bearings, etc. and resold by less than reputable shops for $7-$13k, only to blow up a few thousand miles later.

GT3/Mezger engines are another breed though (the whole purpose of my other post). They are 8,500 rpm beasts with light internals, track ready & not prone to failure. Nothing close to the fragility in the 3.6/3.4 996 motors. Same goes for 996TT motors, GT3s, GT2s.

Any water cooled porsche flat 6 that isn't a turbo or GT-spec between I think 97 and 08 experiences similar failure modes. The air cooled engines have their own set of issues, not something I'm up to speed on.

[stfu&gbtw]

Now I'm trying to talk myself into a used WRX or STI hatchback... can't imagine I won't kick myself if I do, but considering nonetheless... I've never driven an STI, so I'm on the lookout for one to test... Anyone care to comment on owning one? I know they're fun cars... my question is more about whether they felt special. From a distance, they just look like matchbox cars. But they're undeniably fast, AWD, and cheaper to buy and maintain than a p-car.

[delco714]

Now I'm trying to talk myself into a used WRX or STI hatchback... can't imagine I won't kick myself if I do, but considering nonetheless... I've never driven an STI, so I'm on the lookout for one to test... Anyone care to comment on owning one? I know they're fun cars... my question is more about whether they felt special. From a distance, they just look like matchbox cars. But they're undeniably fast, AWD, and cheaper to buy and maintain than a p-car.

What about a Mitsubishi Evo?

[stfu&gbtw]

What about a Mitsubishi Evo?

Would certainly consider it based on its performance, but it looks like a mitsubishi... I kind of like the way the WRX hatchback looks, although I do think it looks like a toy. The evo I don't like at all. I'll give one a go though. I know it'll be fun to drive. Are they reliable and reasonable to maintain in your experience? That's where I'm looking to make up ground on the 964. Still not sure it'd be worth it. A part of me would rather have a 964 in the shop than a WRX in the driveway... But that's not the same part of me that writes the checks... lol...

[Skidog]

Would certainly consider it based on its performance, but it looks like a mitsubishi... I kind of like the way the WRX hatchback looks, although I do think it looks like a toy. The evo I don't like at all. I'll give one a go though. I know it'll be fun to drive. Are they reliable and reasonable to maintain in your experience? That's where I'm looking to make up ground on the 964. Still not sure it'd be worth it. A part of me would rather have a 964 in the shop than a WRX in the driveway... But that's not the same part of me that writes the checks... lol...

I had an 04 WRX non sti back in the day. Was in an Audi a4 1.8t prior to that. The Audi was well appointed interior wise, bit the WRX blew it's doors off. So fun to drive. I say go for it.

[Bobby Stainless]

Sorry for the delayed response. I have been moving.

964s are going to hold steady for awhile. 85s with 100k+ miles are still 50k. They definitely aren't going to get cheaper. Unless there is a Yudge recession.

While the 964 is super cool, and all. The 997 is a far superior car, that you would enjoy more. 964 is a put in the garage car now. Ill have a 997 Turbo S, for a daily eventually. Insane performance. I'd like for this car to drop another 15k. https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/d...5454/overview/

I'd get a 996 Turbo or a 997 Turbo with a manual, if I was looking for the next hot 911. If I wanted an awesome car in the 50s, it would probably be a 13 Boxster S. https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/d...9785/overview/

STIs feel like a commuter car IMO, that has some pep. Not a huge fan of the boyracer look either. They also cost way more than they are worth, kind of like a Supra or something.

[Timberridge]

Just save and wait for this...hopefully...

http://www.caranddriver.com/news/201...py-photos-news

[Bromontana]

Wait. You're saying a late model, low mileage example less engine costs $7,000?

Pretty much, though on mileage it'll vary. Point being the engine is the car, without the engine running 996s and some 997s are under $10k as replacement itself is $20k+ through Porsche.

[stfu&gbtw]

Thanks guys...

I think the WRX is out. I was trying to picture it in my mind this morning, and it's just not going to be the right thing. Between the plastic blah interior, being almost certain that any used one will have spent half it's life bouncing off the rev limiter, and the performance just not being "sports car-y" enough, it's just not going to be the right thing.

BD - I know everything you say about the 997 is true. I'm just stuck for not wanting one... But I'm going to go drive a few 964's and 997's back to back and see if I can talk myself into that idea.

Are there any other good AWD options I'm missing? Ferrari FF? lol...

Just noticed that the Golf R and Ford Focus now come with AWD... I'll have to give those a try... I think new ones can be had in my price range... (<$50k)

Getting warmer...

[Bobby Stainless]

Are there any other good AWD options I'm missing? Ferrari FF? lol...

[stfu&gbtw]

Duh....

Thanks! Looking into it.

Edit - didn't realize they'd dropped the manual at some point. Price point seems to be pretty similar to the 964. A 2009 with 93k is going for $43,5-. Newer ones are DCA and ~$75k.

[Bobby Stainless]

R35 GTRs always had a Dual Clutch. The R34 was manual, but not road legal in the US yet.

50k can get you a good GTR.

[stfu&gbtw]

R35 GTRs always had a Dual Clutch. The R34 was manual, but not road legal in the US yet.

50k can get you a good GTR.

The dual clutch is a deal breaker... I know they're faster, but that's not the point.

[Bromontana]

If I were you I'd buy a 997.2, MY09-12, so you get past the IMS nonsense, get a larger and new 3.8L DFI engine. S model puts out 385hp and is imo a sweet spot that will be in high demand for some time to come. If you go 997.1 you still have fundamental problems with cylinders scoring and IMS. The main difference between 996 & 997 is the return of VW bug headlights; they put the same engine in the initial 997s. Know what you're buying meng.

http://rennlist.com/forums/997-forum...-2-engine.html

http://rennlist.com/forums/997-forum...lure-mode.html

[stfu&gbtw]

If I were you I'd buy a 997.2, MY09-12, so you get past the IMS nonsense, get a larger and new 3.8L DFI engine. S model puts out 385hp and is imo a sweet spot that will be in high demand for some time to come. If you go 997.1 you still have fundamental problems with cylinders scoring and IMS. The main difference between 996 & 997 is the return of VW bug headlights; they put the same engine in the initial 997s. Know what you're buying meng.

http://rennlist.com/forums/997-forum...-2-engine.html

http://rennlist.com/forums/997-forum...lure-mode.html

I'm gradually warming up to the 997... not quite warm yet, but warmer... obviously the new engine, the facelift, and not paying for a 991 would be the main points there.

[Art Shirk]

Now I'm trying to talk myself into a used WRX or STI hatchback... can't imagine I won't kick myself if I do, but considering nonetheless... I've never driven an STI, so I'm on the lookout for one to test... Anyone care to comment on owning one? I know they're fun cars... my question is more about whether they felt special. From a distance, they just look like matchbox cars. But they're undeniably fast, AWD, and cheaper to buy and maintain than a p-car.

I used to own an STi. I think what you need to ask yourself is what sort of feedback do you like from a car. The STi was very very nimble and stiff (with that weight, 300 horses + Turbo), but it was a bit like driving a rocket ship. The best way I can describe it is being yanked in a one direction very fast instead of being pushed. I much prefer the feel of a naturally aspirated big engine. Don't get me wrong - they can be a blast. Very little turbo lag, cornered like it was on rails, and you could play with the power bias (front/back) which led to some fun. And it was actually practical. Hell, 4 doors, AWD, Japanese made. I'm 6'2'' and it wasnt cramped in the least. Great trunk space. Just comes down to what you want to feel when you turn the key.


Hmmm, maybe I should get another....

[Bobby Stainless]

Or a 996 Turbo, which is free of IMS issues.



This is nice too.

[stfu&gbtw]

Or a 996 Turbo, which is free of IMS issues.



This is nice too.

Odd question... is it possible to disconnect the turbo on a 996 and still drive the car for any period of time? Would prefer an NA car... Just wondering...

[gravitylover]

Just noticed that the Golf R and Ford Focus now come with AWD... I'll have to give those a try... I think new ones can be had in my price range... (<$50k)

Getting warmer...

That Focus RS is some piece of work, I want one. It's one of the few cars out there right now that I would trade my BRZ for but I'm diggin' the NA motor and rwd for now. Something about the Golf just doesn't do it for me, I know people love them but there's something so plain and vanilla that I just don't think I could do it.

[Bromontana]

That wouldn't end well. The turbo flat six is low compression designed to handle higher pressure from forced induction, n/a motors are higher compression designed to handle lower pressure from intake gases but higher RPMs.

You could do what I did and drop ~20k on a clean 996 then remove the shit IMS and replace it for 3.5k with an oil fed bearing (same methodology used in the 996TT, GT3 engines*). My IMS will never break because there's nothing to break. I just need to closely manage a few things that certified p-car mechanics have defined.



On the track it has modest body roll despite a stock suspension with H&R sway bars front & rear:



It doesn't matter if you get a WRX, 911, Cayman, Boxster or a Miata. All that matters is that the car delivers what you expect and you can comfortably enjoy it.

*

Further technical information

The [Mezger intermediate shaft] design has been retained with the watercooled 996 Turbo, GT2, and GT3 models as their engines are based off the same 964 engine case with the same internals as the earlier aircooled engines. This intermediate shaft features plain bearings (no ball bearings) that are pressure fed engine oil for lubrication and never fail. If these bearings wear out, the engine may develop a slight knocking noise due to increased running clearance, but this condition will never result in a catastrophic engine failure.

https://www.oregonpca.org/resources/...he-full-story/

[stfu&gbtw]

I think I've managed to talk myself into looking at a Golf R. Looks like one can be bought new for about $40k, with a lifetime warranty. Gonna go drive one this week... I like the interior...

[Bobby Stainless]

I got to see a RWB 911 get built by Akira.

They look fucking sick.

I could rock this. Unfortunately, I don't have the balls to convert my 930.



I saw the car that was built in this video too.