ON3P SKIS Discussion

[Eastside]

My J110's were the absolute worst ski I haver ever tried to ski on firm groomers. Fukn scary. They got better on soft, choppy groomers and a blast in pow/chunder/leftovers. Assuming there is even a bit of 3Dness, you can stand on them and get after it. I got them re-tuned the other day but have not taken them out for a test drive because Countachs are pretty OK in the current conditions. Expecting great things, though.

[Dhiler17]

Thanks for that update, that's really good to hear. Have you had it on refrozen garbage snow (the kind with uninviting firm chickenheads) yet?

FWIW, it can't hurt to let ON3P know about your issues and let them know your serial number. Best case they comp your tune and do a root cause countermeasure process. Worst case they ignore the report.

Alos, I don't consider myself an ON3P apologist ... unreliable tunes would affect how much I'm willing to pay for a ski but not whether to write off the manufacturer completely, as a day in the shop can fix a tune - but it can't rework a core/rocker profile/geometry issue to make a mediocre ski into a great ski.

Does dust on chick heads count? Had maybe a half inch of fluff on top of frozen jank. Wasn’t the exact same conditions as the first day out, but the tails didn’t wash and the edges actually dug in.

I’ve also skied them a couple more times in deeper 3d snow. Really fun and maneuverable in those conditions, but I have other skis I’d rather be riding on those days that are more damp and floaty (Countach 104 is a dream and my new all around favorite). I bought these in the hopes of having something fun to ski off piste when we haven’t seen a storm for a bit. I will say they don’t carve as well as my commander, but are way more nimble, so the woodsman will still stay in the rack on groomer only days.

[tuco]

If it is so simple to remedy, why does it keep happening? Why does ON3P keep getting a pass for this stuff?


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That's a good question.

But, the product is not defective. It's a simple bevel issue. One that can be taken care of, with basic tuning tools, in 20-30min. It's not like the skis are actually edge high(which can be a dangerous condition).
Yeah, it's not ideal, but bad factory tunes are fairly ubiquitous.

[Bandit Man]

That's a good question.

But, the product is not defective. It's a simple bevel issue. One that can be taken care of, with basic tuning tools, in 20-30min. It's not like the skis are actually edge high(which can be a dangerous condition).
Yeah, it's not ideal, but bad factory tunes are fairly ubiquitous.

I call bullshit. You shouldn’t have to know the ins and outs of base bevels, what it means to be “edge high”, etc. to make a pair of $800 skis work.

If you bought new tires and they weren’t balanced properly by the shop and your car drove like shit as a result, whose fault would it be?

Yesterday, I skied my new HL FR’s “fresh out of the wrapper” and they skied perfectly. I’m pretty sure they skied well because of proper quality control before they shipped. That’s my point.

[tuco]

I get it dude! The point I'm trying to make is, that in the big picture, a tune is not a huge deal. Since I got my Caylors skiing to my preference, it has become my main ski in a huge quiver. They have notched a shitload of days from early season to late season and held up better than my other skis with similar days on them. They still have great life w/ lots of retune material left ala stone grinding. Not sure what was the last yr of the Caylors, but they're getting old! Over hundreds of days, the original retune has become a non issue to me. Love those fukn skis man!

Yuk's tune was explained to me by someone that knows ski finishing and it doesn't sound like a bevel issue though so...

[Bandit Man]

I done debating this tune/quality control garbage. Still have two factory direct new ON[emoji639]P skis to try this year. Hope to report back with good news.

Let the apology tour continue…

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[tuco]

Yeah, angling for a new pair myself!

[kid-kapow]

What does "the move from hand tuned to winterstieger" mean?

didn't they invest in a wintersteiger tuning machine / robot a few years back? Meaning going from several processes using different machinery where the ski is handled by a human to an approach where several processes are done by the machine? Aka on of these (not this specific model):


I could be dead wrong - it would not be the first time,

I am kinda on one side thinking it is a not a huge issue - if an unforced error for what is quality product with empeccable build quality, but on the other hand find it completely unacceptable that days on the hill needs to be written off due to skis being wonky / unskiable regardless of what brand produces said product (the worst tune of the year goes to a pair of goguen SF110s - their build quality is not on par with ON3P imho). We only get so many days of skiing in a life time.

I skied three skis today: HL AM100, ON3P J100 rr, and BO98. All tuned by me. The latter's tune is superb, the other two - not so much. I managed to make the J100s worse by on hill detuning too - so I am not saying that tuning skis is dead easy. We have a week of rain coming though - so I'll have plenty of time to redo the tunes... Yay. I will retune my J108s too and give them another spin on hardpack. They were hilariously fun when the snow was soft.

[SupreChicken]

J118 question.

Can I mash the tips of the 191 while mounted on the line and call them unsinkable?

Or do they demand a neutral stance in deep snow?

[snOwen]

Does anyone out there have Woodsman108 50/50 layup? I've been trying to find any thread comments but no luck. I'm hungry for any feedback on and off-piste. Mostly, I'm wondering how they'd do on day-old leftovers. I've got stock layup 100s, but would like to go a little wider with something I can go for modest tours.

I have WD110 in the 50/50. I find them to still charge pretty hard in day/ 2 day old resort chop. I am a fairly large dude so that definitely helps. Have them mounted up with CAST so probably the same type of setup you’re going for. Now, the WD110 tour are a different story. I have them mounted tele, so they work well for that but they definitely get a little bit thrown around in chop. Great for tours though.


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[Muggydude]

When I had 186cm Kartel 116's, mounted -1.5cm (pretty big sweet spot IMO), I didn't think the tips were unsinkable. Not like BG's or C&D's. Neutral to moderately forward and they're good.

If you mounted back 1.5cm on the 191's I'd think they could handle driving them pretty well, but even then probably not unsiankable.

Re ski tunes - tbh I (and others) have had bad tunes from just about every ski manufacturer. Praxis, Moment, J Skis included. Bummer if ON3P used to always have killer tunes and now are not do to mass production, but it's not uncommon. I don't think it should be though. Sometimes $40 new ski light base grind is worth it, in my experience most skis err to the side of being railed when new

[BeHuWe]

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Can I mash the tips of the [emoji637][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]]][emoji637] while mounted on the line and call them unsinkable?

Or do they demand a neutral stance in deep snow?

I wouldn’t call them unsinkable, but they do pop to the surface the moment you release a little pressure of the front of the cuff.

Best description of how to ski them is just think about where you want to go, point them and stand on them and they will carry you there or through whatever.


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[Dhiler17]

Hi All, heard back from ON3P after submitting my findings with the tune on my skinny Woodsman. If you have had tune issues, I suggest reaching out with specific feedback so they can get an idea of what their customers are experiencing. They were very receptive to my concerns, and said they will use the info to improve the manufacturing process.


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[Gate11]

Perfect, thanks. Yep Cast free tour is exactly my plan for these. No big missions, rather set them as Day 2 leftover skis and I can opportunistically use them for 20-30 minute quick hits on skins. They’ll be spending a decent chunk of time inbounds so I don’t want to go too lightweight. Cheers for the confirmation.

[SkiJitsu]

Blister posted their first review of an ON3P ski in several years. https://blisterreview.com/flash-revi...p-woodsman-100

Sounds like the first day on them, they are having the a lot of the same issues talked about here. :s

[kid-kapow]

well, that sucks - at least they'll get a lot of questions on tunes going forward then...

I wouldn’t call them unsinkable, but they do pop to the surface the moment you release a little pressure of the front of the cuff.

Best description of how to ski them is just think about where you want to go, point them and stand on them and they will carry you there or through whatever.

yup, I agree - C&Ds float better due to more surface/longer tips up front and less area in the back / taper, yet J118s are pretty magical at speed as well.

BGs or C&Ds are better if you want to drive through the shovels - J118s (and j124s I imagine) are better for a more neutral stance. The faster you go the more the differences blur imho, and probably the same wrt denser snow. I've only skied J118s in dry snow - they were great.

I've never skied Bent Chetler 120s, but I imagine that J118s should outperform that ski on all but hard snow prowess.

[telemarek]

Anyone have a comparison between the Woodsman 102 and the Deathwish 104?
Looking for a shit condition / grom ski.

Homie has a DW104 I tele'd on and was really digging it. Hoping the Woodsman 102 will be similar but damper, and allow me to charge my tips a bit more.

Any info is super appreciated.

[Eastside]

My J110's were the absolute worst ski I haver ever tried to ski on firm groomers. Fukn scary. They got better on soft, choppy groomers and a blast in pow/chunder/leftovers. Assuming there is even a bit of 3Dness, you can stand on them and get after it. I got them re-tuned the other day but have not taken them out for a test drive because Countachs are pretty OK in the current conditions. Expecting great things, though.

Quoting myself for an update.

I took the re-tuned Jeffrey 110s out today. Conditions are low tide, mid winter Sierra, firm. I have to say, the skis performed exactly as I would expect given the ski and the conditions. It went from a terrifying ride (on firm groomers) to a ski I can make whatever kind of turn I want. I can stand on it and go really fast and trust it.

[Yukonrider]

Got my Woods 108s tuned 2/1 and a day on them. I can say with 100% certainty that whatever tune was on those skis was awful, sharp tips, dull underfoot, sharp tails. A buddy who would know said "someone put a lot of effort into making them that way" so I have a hard time blaming an out of tune Wintersteiger.

Anyways.

Has anyone had success moving the mount point back? I'm at recommended and disliking the short shovel long tail feel. The overall flex seems fine, just when I get into them they seem very short, also a little squirrely at speed.

[K1mJ0ngTr1ll]

Got my Woods 108s tuned 2/1 and a day on them. I can say with 100% certainty that whatever tune was on those skis was awful, sharp tips, dull underfoot, sharp tails. A buddy who would know said "someone put a lot of effort into making them that way" so I have a hard time blaming an out of tune Wintersteiger.

Anyways.

Has anyone had success moving the mount point back? I'm at recommended and disliking the short shovel long tail feel. The overall flex seems fine, just when I get into them they seem very short, also a little squirrely at speed.

1 base 2 edge?

[Yukonrider]

1 base 2 edge?

Correct.

[K1mJ0ngTr1ll]

Correct.

Ah ok the my guys always says the base bevel first so I was intrigued if you set that at 2. 1/2 is the way with On3p’s IMO then you can dull from there.

[BeHuWe]

Got my Woods 108s tuned 2/1 and a day on them. I can say with 100% certainty that whatever tune was on those skis was awful, sharp tips, dull underfoot, sharp tails. A buddy who would know said "someone put a lot of effort into making them that way" so I have a hard time blaming an out of tune Wintersteiger.

Anyways.

Has anyone had success moving the mount point back? I'm at recommended and disliking the short shovel long tail feel. The overall flex seems fine, just when I get into them they seem very short, also a little squirrely at speed.

I remember asking ON3P directly for my woods 110 and they said you can go +\- 2 and still be fine.

What size ski are you on?


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[tschoppe9@gmail.com]

1/2 is the way with On3p’s IMO then you can dull from there.

Been thinking about doing this on my 2020 woods, glad to hear others have found success with it!

[_Jahffrey_]

Long time lurker. Some good discussion in here. Just wanted to say the Wren 96ti has been great during this pnw dry spell.