ON3P SKIS Discussion

[123ski]

I had my first day on on3p skis yesterday - wren 108s/184. This got me thinking, perhaps I need 184 1.5 BGs to replace my white room 186 renegades. Any fellow cult member care to comment on how they compare (BGs vs white room rens)?

My BGs arrive tomorrow. Currently in process of selling white room rens. My rens were 186. My BGs are 189. Once it snows I’ll have a good comparison for you.


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[Viva]

Thanks for input everyone.





And how do you have yours tuned?



Not complaining, seeking understanding. If these skis aren’t able to handle variable snow (which wind scoured hard park and refrozen bumps are a part of), then what is the goal? Not expecting that to be their forte but I hoped that managing an array of variable conditions would be well within their comfort zone




Bingo. Thought it could be too much ski and then they came alive today so now I’m wondering about the tune.

Factory tune on both.

The 184s ski wonderfully in bumps, very maneuverable and slarvy. Although I haven't taken them into re-frozen death cupcakes, yet.

I'm at Taos, currently and will have nine (9) inches of fresh to play in. Gonna ride the 189s today. Been spending a lot of time on the 184s the past few weeks, so curious to feel the difference.

[motopsycha]

[QUOTE=TripleT;5902326]Thanks for input everyone.





And how do you have yours tuned?


My W98’s benefited from some sharpening underfoot with a 2 degree edge guide. I stayed away from the tips and tail.

[PeachesNCream]

Anyone know what bindings are on demos, specifically the demos they'll have at Schweitzer this weekend? And if they'll have a 189 BG? I sent them an email but haven't heard back yet

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[steveski]

Anyone know what bindings are on demos, specifically the demos they'll have at Schweitzer this weekend? And if they'll have a 189 BG? I sent them an email but haven't heard back yet

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Tyrolia attack bindings. I demoed a 189 BG recently at an event this year and it should be the same fleet.

[PeachesNCream]

Tyrolia attack bindings. I demoed a 189 BG recently at an event this year and it should be the same fleet.

Awesome. Old or new attack? (do they fit touring soles?)

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[iggyskier]

@iggy - i was thinking your post gave a safe range that some people may move their mount and mtskibum thought it was the mount point variance in the different sizes of each model. That would mean evefy length of the wren has a different mount point. Looks like might be the case/not sure

Oh my apologies. I get it. That is the range of the actual design as it varies by size. Outside of the Magnus 90/102 - because park kids don't listen to what we say anyway - mounts scale by size so the skis are proportional to length (ie. a 181cm Jeffrey 108 has a mount that is -4.00cm along the skis flat length, but the 186cm Jeffrey 108 increases to -4.25cm).

If we are talking in terms of movement from recommended, my fully-comfortable-if-it-fits-your-style would be:

Magnus 90 = +0 /- 2cm
Magnus 102 = +/- 2cm
Jeffrey/Jessie = +/- 2cm (a ton of people are skiing Jeffreys +4cm which pains me)
Woodsman = +1cm / -2cm
BG/CD/Wren= +/- 1cm (yes, we always say RES on the line, but obviously being slightly off the line isn't going to kill you if you have to due to boot change or remount)

Edit to add - if you have to ask where to mount, answer most likely on the line.

Was something wrong with that ski?

Just a question based upon this post from December. The snow was so heavy that day that even BGs weren't really working, so wouldn't surprise me that someone would find a less maneuverable ski to be even more locked in given the conditions.

I skied the Wood116 at BBI Alpy last year back to back with my goats. The conditions were great for a wider platform with >3 feet falling earlier in the week. What shocked me was how much more locked in I felt with the wood in soft snow, the tails took quite a bit more effort to cut loose! They weren’t scary in tight trees by any means but they just required more work. I would say they did shine a bit more on piste and wanted to be driven the way a wren would - but that’s not really why you have a ski that’s 116 UF.

Nah, if I recall that was a pre-production W116, since then I’ve stepped in the 108 and 116 on two different occasions.

I definitely appreciate the feedback, as it lets me better direct people to skis in the line.

One thing to stress for people considering this ski - is that it is not a traditionally mounted ski - on purpose. This is coming from someone who basically started a company to give myself traditionally mounted skis that I liked - but over the years the influence of certain elements of the Freestyle line have definitely seeped into my thinking. I think that is why we like the phrase we've been using around it - modern all mountain - because it fits a lot of the guys like me that either gravitated more towards the freestyle skis over time - or who learned skiing on them - but need more power in skis than you get on the Jeffreys. That extra ~3cm of tail vs a traditional amount isn't trivial (I struggle on skis like the Jeffrey 116 in 3d snow for the same reason), so if you aren't used to a bit of extra tail on your skis, especially a stouter ski, then it definitely might make your struggle to figure out the balance - especially early on. We see the same people have the same issues with the Jeffrey - only that ski is softer so easier for people to push around.

See below.

I thought my 187 108 Woodsmen had a lot of tail my first day. It took me a couple days to get really comfortable with them, but now I wouldn't think about mounting them anywhere but recommended.

Totally agree! I bought Powtron’s old Caylors last year. They’re the most fun skis I have. Mood usually dictates C&D or Caylor on a fresh snow day (bouncy/air-time = Caylor, or charge/destroy trees = C&D). They Caylors tho, happy, fun, bouncy, playful skis!

Out of curiosity have you skied the Jeffrey 116? Mostly just curious because I find it fascinating that people see certainly models differently - even though models like the Jeffrey 116 is really just a long chain of ebbs and flows in the same model platform (Caylor, Jeffrey 114/116/122).

I’m looking at the Wrenegade 96 ti. Be honest: for groomer skiing (or any type, for that matter), is its construction as sound as a Euro OEM ski?

Like, Euro OEMs have manufactured skis for many decades and kind of know what do do. Just wondering if ON3P compares.

Also, can someone speak to the quality of the raw materials? I’m not insinuating anything, but I know USA-based companies (of any type ) try to get the ass-cheapest stuff. (Really not trying to single any one company out, but perhaps you know what I’m trying to communicate).

Even if we wanted to, there is basically no one to buy bad materials from. All ski companies are buying materials from the same like 5 companies.

Our Titanal is....Titanal. It's literally a brand name product from AMAG. Edges from CDW - one of two edge suppliers in the world. Topsheets from Iso - who supplies most of the world. Base/Sidewall from one of two notable plastic suppliers in the world doing ski materials (one being Crown - who we use - other being Iso). So in terms of materials, as everyone above noted - we're not skimping on anything.

ON3P’s e-store pate for Wrenegade 96 ti speaks of metal laminates, but the infographic doesn’t show any.

Does the ski have metal laminates in it, or not?

Attachment 317123

That layup cross-section hasn't been updated to ti construction

Honestly, not sure we'll have an update to that image anytime soon. Haven't had a pair of metal lam skis break yet. That image is shared across all the ski collection (right now anyway) so that is why it is auto-featured on that page. Will update when we have a ski that we can cut in half without caring though.

Ok collective - need input.
Just finished my third day on my wren96.
After the first two days (both without new snow) I was thinking that I may need to sell them. We just weren’t getting along. Felt like I could never really get the ski under control. Things improved when I tightened up my core and put more input into them, but still just felt like they didn’t wanna corporate. Figured I may be getting soft and losing my edge.
Today, storm skiing with wind distributed 1-4”. They killed it - anything with any softness and they just lock in and ride out and underlying bumps. However, whenever I’d hit a completely wind scoured pitch, back to that out of control feeing. Opposite of locked it.
Is it the tune?! The factory tune came unlike anything I’ve seen - incredibly detuned front and back and underfoot the edge is so rounded I struggle to call it an edge. I emailed the factory about it when I first got them cuz I thought they seriously came untuned. Apparently this is the correct stock tune?
So if I get some actual edges tuned in around my underfoot (keeping tips and tails heavily detuned) can I get some hard snow performance?!?

Ski tune is personal - so if you want sharper edges I say do it. One additional comment - be mindful of how you pressure your skis too. If you are someone trying to engage way up in the tips like a far less rockered ski, the rocker will make it impossible to do so.

Even with this tune - we hear more from people who continue to detune their skis further than what we send them out with (I'd say 3 to 1). See the post below.

That applies to all our employees who gummi a lot more - and Alex might be able to hop in and confirm this regarding his MT demo fleet - but he has been detuning further even for their continental snowpack.

We do the best we can for a best fit tune for our customer base - which as most people here know isn't the same as the larger brands. But even a best fit tune is still going to fail to fit a lot of people.

So, if you want to go sharper, do it. I know some people like to go 1/2 on the Wrens too. My comments are to leave anything beyond the effective edge fully rounded - it has no function sharp - and to make sure you have some blending between the end of the effective edge and the end of the running length. Most shops send our skis out way too sharp and we end up having to help people get their skis back to where they were, so just be mindful most shops - even if you tell them to keep it in mind - will oversharpen (ie - tuning beyond the effective edge) and under-detune how our skis like to ski.

My 116’s were night and day after a detune.

Could you guys have ended up with the "park detune"?

You will know if you have a park detune. It is beyond just a round over - we physically remove the corner of the edge.

Anyone know what bindings are on demos, specifically the demos they'll have at Schweitzer this weekend? And if they'll have a 189 BG? I sent them an email but haven't heard back yet

Everything is mounted with Attack 13 demos (some last years, some this years).

BTW - if you name starts with an L - looks like we emailed you 3 days ago. If so, check your spam or promo folders.

Just a PSA - I've posted it here before, by gmail is putting a lot of our emails in either spam or promo folders. Even emails for threads that are established. So far haven't had any meaingful help when it comes to solving it - so I'm just constantly reiterating to people to make sure they are checking out those folders if you are waiting for a reply.

[steveski]

Awesome. Old or new attack? (do they fit touring soles?)

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Most have new attack, they do fit touring soles.

[mall walker]

figure I’ll post it here first: if anyone has a 179 steeple of the narrower variety (idk what they ever came in but ~100 or narrower) that they are selling or might sell, I’m very interested.

[SkiLyft]

I definitely appreciate the feedback, as it lets me better direct people to skis in the line.

Out of curiosity have you skied the Jeffrey 116? Mostly just curious because I find it fascinating that people see certainly models differently - even though models like the Jeffrey 116 is really just a long chain of ebbs and flows in the same model platform (Caylor, Jeffrey 114/116/122).

Sure thing — again this is why I own 3 pairs of your skis!! Your responses are so detailed and really do help shed light/advise for future purchases.

Of the Jeffrey line I’ve skied
108 standard layup in a 186 and 191
116 extra stiff 186 (powtron->shroom’s bright blue pair)

Honestly, the tail on the Jeffrey really didn’t seem to stick the way the Wood 116 did, they were noticeably more loose.

Of all the skis above skiing the 191 at -2cm back was my favorite as it still charged when I needed it to but was pretty loose overall. Speaking of weird feelings — the tails on the 191 when skiing bumps at recommended were very noticeable. But I suppose that’s why it’s not a bump ski [emoji854][emoji4]

[optics]

Skied Jackson today in a little 5ish inch refresh over lots of sun affected mank. Halfway down everything turned into grabby hot pow and I’ve never wished for billy goats more. Just here to say that.

[shroom]

^^ believe that was my/ formerly powtrons purple k116 (‘16) if my BBI’s are not blending together too much

[litespeed]

Anybody have experience using billy goats as an all mountain/1 ski quiver? Seen a lot of raving about them, but not sure if I should get something more all mountain oriented...

[SkiLyft]

^^ believe that was my/ formerly powtrons purple k116 (‘16) if my BBI’s are not blending together too much

Shit** you are correct as soon as I typed it I questioned it. So your stiff 116’s.

Anybody have experience using billy goats as an all mountain/1 ski quiver? Seen a lot of raving about them, but not sure if I should get something more all mountain oriented...

Have skied em as a daily driver for the past 2 seasons. In the PNW it works — but I have found their limitations. Chalky days and dry spells skiing them is not as fun. So if you live in the NW and your budget only allows for one ski they will work but I’m now adding something ~100 underfoot to make skiing more funner when the snow guns turn off.



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[CascadeLuke]

Anybody have experience using billy goats as an all mountain/1 ski quiver? Seen a lot of raving about them, but not sure if I should get something more all mountain oriented...

Where are you skiing at- west coast?
There are a lot of guys who ride BGs most everyday, myself included. At the same time most of us do not subscribe to a one-ski quiver philosophy. It’s a compromising proposition. I’d suggest getting yourself a used bargain 95-100 waist ski to compliment a BG (if your question is budget related)

[Kopi_Red]

LOL at all you dudes expecting your ON3P’s to rail hard pack. It’s not the tune. Get them in the air over the hard stuff.

You need a heavy stiff metal laminate euro ski for that.

QFT. I love my Super Goats but when it hasn't snowed for a while I grab my heavy full metal euro skis.

[Norseman]

Never been on true icecoast firm. Why bother?

Tychoons rip the normal (edgeable) west coast firm. I'm sure the more modern narrow Wrens do, too.

Kopi, jack: have you guys tried a metal Wren? Bet they grip like crazy. And can also venture off the groomer, unlike some wannabe race-dweeb euro pistebanger ice shaver emo wrist slicer slalom whatevers.

[Kopi_Red]

I haven't skied on a metal wren yet. I'd love to get on a pair and take them for a spin. It's been a few years but I have ridden on wren 98s and 108s. They were alright but they didn't make me want to make space for them in my quiver.

I talked to another mag who loved the wren 108. He was super stoked to get his hands on a TI pair but afterwards he was bumbed because he found the TI's to be kinda dead feeling compared to the regular layup.

[klauss]

Anybody have experience using billy goats as an all mountain/1 ski quiver? Seen a lot of raving about them, but not sure if I should get something more all mountain oriented...

I’m sure there’s some specimens out there doing just that. If you aren’t into carving turns on firm or only ski soft snow it might work. Otherwise get one of their 108 offerings as a “compromise” as all of them have soft snow chops too.

[aanev]

@iggyskier

Iggy,

you have probably answered these questions countless times, but here we go again:

Having skied in shark infested waters I’ll have to do base repair + stone grind on my Wren108s in near future and I want them as close to factory tune as possible (I’ve never owned a ski that clicked better for me).

1. Stone grind: linear pattern?

2. Edge tune: 1 side/ 1 base
I plan to use chromium WC file, then 200/400/600/800 diamond files

3. Edge detune:
20 passes with gummy stone on the running length (blue on the picture)
Full detune (rounded edge) on tips and tails (red on the picture)
Gradual transition from running length to effective edge (green on the picture)
In my understanding:
Running length is the length between the contact points when the ski lays flat on the ground.
Effective edge is the length between the widest areas on the ski.

[litespeed]

Where are you skiing at- west coast?
There are a lot of guys who ride BGs most everyday, myself included. At the same time most of us do not subscribe to a one-ski quiver philosophy. It’s a compromising proposition. I’d suggest getting yourself a used bargain 95-100 waist ski to compliment a BG (if your question is budget related)

I ski at tline on mount hood rn. On the icier days I usually stay in the park, hit some jumps, maybe throw in a spin or something. Would I be better off with something more like the Jeffrey/Kartel?

[CascadeLuke]

I ski at tline on mount hood rn. On the icier days I usually stay in the park, hit some jumps, maybe throw in a spin or something. Would I be better off with something more like the Jeffrey/Kartel?

I haven’t skied those. Well, 3 laps on Kartels. My suspicion is yes - that’s more your jam. Plenty of riders make those work as a DD that handles 3D snow. Hopefully others in the Jeffrey crowd chime in for you.

[adrenalated]

Anybody have experience using billy goats as an all mountain/1 ski quiver? Seen a lot of raving about them, but not sure if I should get something more all mountain oriented...

It depends on where you ski and what days you go out. Personally, I would not use a BG as a one ski quiver. They are tolerable but don't shine on firmer snow. They are magical in 3D snow. If most of your ski days involve fresh snow or otherwise 3D snow, then you could get away with it. But for most people, most places, something with a more traditional sidecut profile (Wren, Woodsman, Jeffrey) is just going to be more versatile. For a wider, soft snow oriented ski with all mountain chops, I'd think the Woodsman 116 would be a solid choice.

Edit - just saw your followup post. I would definitely say Jeffrey or Woodsman for you, depending how stiff you like your skis and if you want a more centered mount or slightly more traditional mount.

[goolick]

Does a 2 ski quiver of Kartel 108/116 make any sense at all? Because I just traded my PB&Js for a Kartel 108 and that what I'm running with now. I feel like I'm going to end up having too much overlap and wanting to change out the 116. Someone talk me out of it.

For what it is worth, that is the quiver of most of the factory guys and team guys (outside of park skis) run.

Update on this, I rode the 108s over the weekend in 4ish inches of fresh snow. The 108s did awesome most of the day except for when we found untouched powder lines, when I would have preferred to be on the 116s. I felt more difference between the 2019 108s and the 2016 116s than I expected - kinda thought the 108 would just be a slimmed down 116. There's differences in tip taper that I definitely noticed that will make the 108 more suitable for daily driving and when there's fresh snow, the 116s will come out.

Not questioning the quiver now!

[123ski]

I ski at tline on mount hood rn. On the icier days I usually stay in the park, hit some jumps, maybe throw in a spin or something. Would I be better off with something more like the Jeffrey/Kartel?

Jeffrey 108 was my daily driver at snowbird for years


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