ON3P SKIS Discussion

[shroom]

i think im gonna mount my wren 108s with touring bindings for euroland next year. bit more vert friendly than the stiff K116s i brought this year, and the added versatility as well.

the ti intrigues me, but my whole play with the standard wren was to quit skiing moguls on a metal ski (cochise) all the time, acting like i can.

i could probably replace my 4 ON3P skis with the right size Woodsman and call it a day but that would be no fun.

[TripleT]

Apologies for not reading through gobbles if pages...

For 19/20
Wren (non Ti)- unchanged?
Jeffery - unchanged Kartel, rebranded?

What then exactly is the woodsman? I thought wren = directional yet with some pop, Jeffery = poppy/jibby with some backbone.
If woodsman is between not quite sure what that is....

[TomFromNS]

Will metal be a custom option going forward?


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

[kid-kapow]

Apologies for not reading through gobbles if pages...

For 19/20
Wren (non Ti)- unchanged?
Jeffery - unchanged Kartel, rebranded?

What then exactly is the woodsman? I thought wren = directional yet with some pop, Jeffery = poppy/jibby with some backbone.
If woodsman is between not quite sure what that is....

Just read the thread, going backwards or think who of the posters in this thread that is the most likely to have provided the information you are seeking and look in their profiles (hint: Iggyskier). All of these questions have been answered multiple times over lately as well as linked to additional info on other sites, and are increasingly answered on ON3P.com as the new range is posted in greater detail.

I simply do not get people who are so lazy that they cannot be bothered to even try to get something that they want - especially when it takes minimal effort, yet are cheeky enough ask other people to take the effort they can't be arsed to and just provide everything for them.

Will metal be a custom option going forward?

I know they are exploring it, but it will not be an option until 2021 at the earliest as far as I know. Iggy, please correct me if I misunderstood something.

Since the lay up (for instance core thinkness) basically have to be redesinged specific to the model when you add metal, I would expect it to become an option one model at the time (if it makes sense) as time ticks by, not across the board.

[nickbokhoven]

What testing ski is jonniemerril on in this instagram pic? Swallowtail design? More speculation for this thread.


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

[Sessiøn]

What testing ski is jonniemerril on in this instagram pic? Swallowtail design? More speculation for this thread.


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

I mean it's pretty evident...snowblades. I would bet he just cut down some of his skis for closing day at Alta.

[abraham]

I mean it's pretty evident...snowblades. I would bet he just cut down some of his skis for closing day at Alta.

Pffft he's just testing the front half of the upcoming 200+ cm BG

[grinch]

+4mm is nothing

He said +4 mm, not cm

Ah yes. My bad. I gapped on that. Thanks. 4"mm" should be typical BG impossible to tip dive

Sent from my SM-G950W using TGR Forums mobile app

[TAFKALVS]

Admit it... ON3P snowblades would sell.

[TripleT]

....and are increasingly answered on ON3P.com as the new range is posted in greater detail.

Alright alright, point taken.
FWIW, it’s reading the new info and marketing copy on on3p.com that brought me to the question in the first place. To me the differentiation between the skis isn’t super clear. Especially bc the description for the wren is still the ‘19 info.

[Tailwind]

An On3p Swallowtail would sell... But this looks like something strange and one-off... sidecut profile makes it look like it's a modified normal ski.

Admit it... ON3P snowblades would sell.

[alias_rice]

Admit it... ON3P snowblades would sell.

I’m pretty sure Moments snowblades sold out quickly, so yeah I bet they would.

[iggyskier]

So we've got updated product pages (line wide) plus landing pages for the Wren TI, Jeffrey, and Woodsman all in process or close to completion - so a lot more details on the way. We just literally had people emailing over and over to snag early Woodsman slots - and Magnus/Jeffrey are in stock and now shipping - so just couldn't wait anymore to get the skis in while we finish everything up.

Within the next week, there will be a lot more info out there.

Alright alright, point taken.
FWIW, it’s reading the new info and marketing copy on on3p.com that brought me to the question in the first place. To me the differentiation between the skis isn’t super clear. Especially bc the description for the wren is still the ‘19 info.

^

[iggyskier]

Will metal be a custom option going forward?

Eventually but gonna be awhile for any model outside the Wren. Just takes a long time to tweak and dial in these profiles.

[iggyskier]

We already have the Snowblade branding but no timeline to actually build some. Pretty busy on other things right now.

[TAFKALVS]

We already have the Snowblade branding but no timeline to actually build some. Pretty busy on other things right now.

I bet you guys would sell way more snowblades than Super Goats and Wren114s.

[Ted Striker]

What then exactly is the woodsman? I thought wren = directional yet with some pop, Jeffery = poppy/jibby with some backbone.
If woodsman is between not quite sure what that is....

ok, srsly...

I've owned a few Wrens, and would say that it's a directional ski that likes to be skied in the fall line. The differences between the versions/years really boils down to how far off the fall line they'll go before fighting you. IMO it's the perfect ski for open faces, lines that point to the valley, runs that don't get bumped up, etc. If you see gates in loose glades, it's the ski for you. And it's no coincidence that the guy the ski is named after is a WB local.

I've never skied the Jeffrey (or Kartel), but it's fairly easy to see that it's aimed at skiers who see the whole mountain as a terrain park. There's no limit on how far out of the fall line you can go.

So IMO, the Woodsman is a directional ski that is going to be more comfortable out of the fall line than the wren, hence more versatile, but not as spinny/jibby as the Jeffrey (in part due to the mount point). It's a serious contender for the elusive quiver of one ski.

[jvskinn]

I've owned a few Wrens, and would say that it's a directional ski that likes to be skied in the fall line. The differences between the versions/years really boils down to how far off the fall line they'll go before fighting you. IMO it's the perfect ski for open faces, lines that point to the valley, runs that don't get bumped up, etc. If you see gates in loose glades, it's the ski for you. And it's no coincidence that the guy the ski is named after is a WB local.

I've never skied the Jeffrey (or Kartel), but it's fairly easy to see that it's aimed at skiers who see the whole mountain as a terrain park. There's no limit on how far out of the fall line you can go.

So IMO, the Woodsman is a directional ski that is going to be more comfortable out of the fall line than the wren, hence more versatile, but not as spinny/jibby as the Jeffrey (in part due to the mount point). It's a serious contender for the elusive quiver of one ski.

As an aging Jeffrey owner, that sounds awesome.

[adrenalated]

ok, srsly...

I've owned a few Wrens, and would say that it's a directional ski that likes to be skied in the fall line. The differences between the versions/years really boils down to how far off the fall line they'll go before fighting you. IMO it's the perfect ski for open faces, lines that point to the valley, runs that don't get bumped up, etc. If you see gates in loose glades, it's the ski for you. And it's no coincidence that the guy the ski is named after is a WB local.

I've never skied the Jeffrey (or Kartel), but it's fairly easy to see that it's aimed at skiers who see the whole mountain as a terrain park. There's no limit on how far out of the fall line you can go.

So IMO, the Woodsman is a directional ski that is going to be more comfortable out of the fall line than the wren, hence more versatile, but not as spinny/jibby as the Jeffrey (in part due to the mount point). It's a serious contender for the elusive quiver of one ski.

I have skied the older Jeffrey and I think your general descriptions are pretty spot on.

One thing that I'll add that I think is an important distinction between the Wren and Kartel/Jeffrey lines is the sidecut type. Wrens have bi-radius sidecut and Kartel/Jeffrey has a hybrid sidecut (elliptical tip, constant radius tail). The older Jeffreys I skied had a full elliptical sidecut. Elliptical sidecut is an interesting thing, in that the more you pressure the ski, the tighter the turn radius gets and the harder it carves. So it's really good for a more playful style where you might want to load up a ski on the lip of a jump and have it help you initiate your spin. I haven't skied the hybrid sidecut but given that the tip is elliptical, it's going to have that feeling at least in the front half of the ski.

If you're skiing with a more directional, big mountain style, elliptical sidecut is NOT what you want. You want to be able to come fast out of a chute, load the ski hard, and make a big arcing turn. You don't want to load the ski hard and have it tighten up the radius and throw you across the fall line. That's why the Wrens have a bi-radius sidecut. It allows them to make big, fast turns, with the ski heavily loaded.

The Woodsman also has a bi-radius sidecut, but with a tighter turn radius and more centered mount point than the Wren. In other words, it's going to ski more like a Wren, but not require as much speed/effort to get it to turn. Before a skier that doesn't ski backwards and doesn't spin, but also doesn't want to have to go 30mph at all times and stay mostly committed directly down the fall line, would end up on a Kartel/Jeffrey. Now they have the Woodsman instead.

[comish]

Comish, what have you thought of your Wren 108s that are mounted on the line? I know the mount point is similar to the Billy Goats, but while the BGs are my favorite skis ever, I’m finding that I may prefer other everyday skis with boot centers more in the -5 to -6 range (I prefer the 187 Meridian 107 to the 184 Wren 108).


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

So I have been debating this for a while and the jury is still out for me. The Sumday after I bought them I scored Sugar Bowl country club style as I80 was closed in both directions. It was deeeep and untracked all day long. One of the best inbounds days of my life ripping around with Mini Comish. I loved them that day. No tip dive with all that tip rocker and the rear mount position.

I have enjoyed them on other deep days, but came to the conclusion that they weren't fat enough for true Sierra deep days and that something around the 115mm underfoot range would be better, hence my BG purchase. I think this was a result of my storm chase to JH in Feb when they closed the boundaries. We got 24" the first night and 16" the next. I wanted something bigger than the Wren for the mornings of those days and didn't like them in the afternoons once things got a bit bumpy.

I don't love Wren when things get bumped / tracked. All that tip rocker actually makes the ski hard to engage unless you have it up on edge quite a bit. I will admit to not having figured them out and also wishing they had metal at that point. They didn't feel as damp as I would like, but I will also admit to being tired by the end of the day from a bunch of touring prior to the JH storm cycle and not enought sleep so jury is still out. Keep in mind, I generally love the damp feeling of old Skool Legend Pro's, most recent Monster 98's, and older Stockli Stormriders. Once tracked, I would would rather be on my Qlabs w. metal and less tip rocker.

So I think my conclusion is the shape of the wren with all that tip rocker and no metal, should be for pow days, and then it might as well be fatter. So if anyone wants to trade a Wren 114 for my 108's, let me know. Jury is ultimately still out though. Sorry long winded answer to the question since I'm still trying to figure it out...

[Ted Striker]

As an aging Jeffrey owner, that sounds awesome.

As an aging billy goat and wren skier, I see a woodsman in my future as well.

@ adrenalated, good summation on how the tech works for the intended usage. I like to think of the people and locations that helped shape some the models as well, so as to gain a little insight on how they might work for me and my limited skill set

[galibier_numero_un]

I have skied the older Jeffrey and I think your general descriptions are pretty spot on.

One thing that I'll add that I think is an important distinction between the Wren and Kartel/Jeffrey lines is the sidecut type. Wrens have bi-radius sidecut and Kartel/Jeffrey has a hybrid sidecut (elliptical tip, constant radius tail). The older Jeffreys I skied had a full elliptical sidecut. Elliptical sidecut is an interesting thing, in that the more you pressure the ski, the tighter the turn radius gets and the harder it carves. So it's really good for a more playful style where you might want to load up a ski on the lip of a jump and have it help you initiate your spin. I haven't skied the hybrid sidecut but given that the tip is elliptical, it's going to have that feeling at least in the front half of the ski.

If you're skiing with a more directional, big mountain style, elliptical sidecut is NOT what you want. You want to be able to come fast out of a chute, load the ski hard, and make a big arcing turn. You don't want to load the ski hard and have it tighten up the radius and throw you across the fall line. That's why the Wrens have a bi-radius sidecut. It allows them to make big, fast turns, with the ski heavily loaded.

The Woodsman also has a bi-radius sidecut, but with a tighter turn radius and more centered mount point than the Wren. In other words, it's going to ski more like a Wren, but not require as much speed/effort to get it to turn. Before a skier that doesn't ski backwards and doesn't spin, but also doesn't want to have to go 30mph at all times and stay mostly committed directly down the fall line, would end up on a Kartel/Jeffrey. Now they have the Woodsman instead.

Scott owes you a sales commission (for Woodsmans sold) for this post

... Thom

[mfa81]

Length wise vs the BG I would size up (guys skiing a 184cm BG would likely want to be on a 187cm Woodsman, 189cm BG on the 192cm Woodsman).
.

would you still recommend sizing up if you want the woodsman for a now snow/day after storm skiing?

at 5’5” / 135 skiing the 179 bg I feel like 182 woodsman would be too much ski, I’m currently pretty happy with my 177 og cochise.

[Gnar_Shralp406]

would you still recommend sizing up if you want the woodsman for a now snow/day after storm skiing?

at 5’5” / 135 skiing the 179 bg I feel like 182 woodsman would be too much ski, I’m currently pretty happy with my 177 og cochise.

From what I've read on here, I would go 182. It sounds like the Woodsman has a tighter radius and healthy amount of rocker so I don't think it would feel like too much ski after a 179 BG and 177 Coach Cheese.
I'm 6' and about 30 lbs heavier than you, but ride the 193 Cochise and 189 BG and I know I'd go with the longest Woodsman.
Long skis truck and short skis suck.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

[mr_pretzel]

would you still recommend sizing up if you want the woodsman for a now snow/day after storm skiing?

at 5’5” / 135 skiing the 179 bg I feel like 182 woodsman would be too much ski, I’m currently pretty happy with my 177 og cochise.

Dont get the 182 if you’re happy with your cochise.
177 will be plenty.