ON3P SKIS Discussion

[PowTron]

^ beat me to it. I have had almost every iteration of the Wren, and they just keep making them better. I skied the 108 last year, and really enjoyed the new tip shape (thanks powtron) slices through the Loveland wind blown great, and I couldn't tell any difference in the stability. The K116 skied nice also, however; you needed a more central stance then the BG. Like Adrenalated stated, the 108/BG would be a great 2 ski quiver for LL.

Another vote for Wren 98/108 and BG as a two ski quiver at the LUV. All three of the new Wrens have the updated tip shape and taper that is quite a bit better in crud.

[widluk]

Just got my first few laps of the season in at A-basin this afternoon on my new 189 Wren 108's and could not be more pleased. I'm 6' 4" 220 lbs, coming from the old Belafonte in a 192. I made the switch because I wanted something with more versatility in turn shape, more playfulness, and better powder performance without giving up much chargeability. While I can't speak for the powder performance yet, so far these hit the nail on the head. That Bi-Radius Sidecut is legit. So easy to make any turn shape you want. Holds an edge but tail releases whenever you want it to. Plenty of pop, yet still plows through crud piles. Doesn't lay down trenches in long radius turns quite like the Belafonte, but sometimes I felt like that's all the Belafonte could do. The Wren feels every bit as damp. I'll easily take the trade off. I have no concerns that it won't be enough ski when charging big steep open faces, even at my size. If it performs in powder like I'm expecting this just might be perfection for a travel ski. Combined with my 191 BG I think I'm finally done tinkering with the quiver for years to come unless I decide to add something in the 88 waist realm at some point.

[PowTron]

^^^^ Hell yeah, nailed it. Glad you dig!

[Norseman]

Good thumbs up

[nyskirat]

So, if my understanding is correct, the Steeple 98 is the touring version of a Wren 98. Is that right?

[Drunken Shytbird]

Well, I guess I could've found out what my DD was going to be today except I just came off a trip and had 2 hours jet lagged sleep...sigh. Btw, the day I skied the '15 W112, I also skied the W102 and hated it. The tails were too soft for me and pretty much the whole ski was too soft. I then got on the 112 and it was one of the most fun skis that I've ever been on. Didn't get in the moguls or anything just lapped some hero snow spring groomers at high speed, so I didn't get a feel of how it would hold on firm groomers, variable or wind scoured type scenarios. Mute point now because of the complete redesign.
Are most of you Wren Dudes mostly breaking out the 98, or is it the 108 you're grabbing most days for LL most of the time? That pretty much tells: which one comes out the most. I'm going buy a BG for anything over 6" or so anyway. I really need a 3 ski quiver with a pure frontside all mtn too (W88?), but I just can't fund it right now. So, pretty much just going to have to ski that 98 & 108 is what it's going to boil down to. And thanks again for all the help here.

[uglymoney]

^They had a demo day at Loveland today. Maybe someone will chime in on how they liked the 98 and 108 on the WROD. I've already got a Brahma in the 88 slot.

[adrenalated]

Yeah, so I was able to get on a few skis yesterday.

Short version: anyone who liked the Wren 112 will want the Wren 108. Anyone that liked the Wren 102 will want the Wren 98.

Long version: for reference, I own the 186cm Wren 112 and ski it anytime the snow is firm at Loveland. I also own older 182cm Belafontes (back when they had normal camber) that I mostly ski at Crested Butte, where things are just too damn tight for my 140lbs of pure chiseled muscle to turn the 186 Wren. So that's my reference to the new Wrens. Also keep in mind I'm skiing the new stuff on one green run of manmade snow with a little bit of real snow on top.

184cm Wren 108: as far as I can tell the flex is damn near identical to my Wren 112s. Turn radius is also basically identical in this length. Overall the 186 Wren 112 and 184 Wren 108 are really, really similar skis, and that's a good thing. The changes are primarily in the tip taper shape, and tail rocker profile and taper shape.

In the tip, the ski tapers just a little bit more. It's a really good change. One of my only minor complaints about the 112 was that I always felt like the tip wanted to engage just a tiny bit earlier in the turn than I wanted it to. It didn't really hook exactly, just wanted to turn a little earlier than I ideally wanted. This was most noticeable making long, fast turns in crud. The new tip shape solves this feeling entirely.

In the tail, the ski tapers just a little bit more and the rocker profile is longer and higher than the 112. This is good and bad. On one hand, the tail of the 108 definitely releases with much less effort than the 112. It's also way more tolerant and forgiving if you get in the backseat. I'd have to ski the 108 in steeper, more varied conditions to be certain, but my initial impression is that stability does not suffer with this change. However, the old profile in the 112 did provide a bit more energy and rebound from the tail of the ski, if you loaded it up. Although I personally like the rocker profile of the 112 slightly more than the 108, I wouldn't really call it a bad change... it's just a little different. It's definitely a bit more forgiving, but I don't think it really changes the stability or charging ability of the ski significantly.

Of note, the 189cm Wren 108 will definitely be more ski than the 186cm Wren 112.

184cm Wren 98: this a really good ski for it's purpose. It's definitely softer than the 108, but as a result it's much easier to ski. It's easy to turn, yet still very stable. The new tail rocker profile is perfect for this ski. It will really just do anything you want it to with very little fuss.

When I worked in a shop, we sold both Icelantic and ON3P, as well as a few other brands. The Icelantic Nomad RKR was a ski that I could sell to just about any advanced to expert skier that walked in the door and I knew they'd have a good time on it. The Wren 98 is like that, but better in every way. It's more stable, yet just as easy to ski; more damp, yet just as poppy; less hooky in long turns, yet just as easy to make shorter radius turns. Pow performance I have to extrapolate based on the shapes but I can see the Wren 98 holding it's own with wider skis just because of the taper and rocker shapes. It's just a really, really good all around ski.

I also got on a couple other things....

184cm Billy Goat: I own and love 186cm BGs - the latest iteration before the length changed to 184cm. I was pretty convinced that the ultimate ski soft snow had been built and I did not think it was possible to make it better. I may have been wrong. The straight sections in the tip on the new ski make it drastically better on hard snow. I would not have thought such a small change would be so dramatic. The ski still requires you to keep a little bit of tip pressure at all times or the RES makes the ski turn the wrong way, but if you stay on the tip the ski locks into a turn WAY better on hard snow than the old ski. I'm looking forward to comparing the two in 3D snow, but I'm definitely sold on the improvements the the BG on firm snow.

186cm Kartel 108: can't say a ton about this because it's just not my type of ski (too jibby and center mounted for my tastes). It's stable and playful, certainly more stable than most skis of this genre. Can't say much else. If you like jibby skis it's worth a look.

Overall, nice job Scott and co. Impressive how the line is always improving.

[Drunken Shytbird]

What's the difference in mount points on the Wrens vs Kartels? Also, anybody want to chime in on the Line SN 108 vs the new Wren 108 & how about the Nordica Enforcer vs the Wren 98, yeah, I know the Sidecut is 18m on the Enforcer, but they say you can still open up your turns a bit. With the longer Radius of the W98 how easy is it, conversely, to get a smaller radius turn out of it? Does the Bi Radius Sidecut design on the Wrens maybe do something for you for shorter turns that the Paper Sidecut Radius of 24'ish wouldn't otherwise suggest.
Also, in every review that I can find, the major Kudos have gone to the 108 and not the 98- just saying. I wonder why that is??? Hey The Powtron himself seems to prefer the 108 as his DD @ LL. I'll probably end up like I said with a W88 later on on sale (hopefully) and a BG, but my personal delimma is whether I want to go 96/100, or a 105/108 waist for a DD. I guess really that's the biggest question. Fuck me, but this Gearhead shit can drive you nuts.
Thanks for your review adrenalated.

[adrenalated]

Don't worry about the waist width. Worry about how you want the ski to feel.

You state you hated the W102 and loved the W112. I suspect you'd feel the same way about the W98 vs W108. The edge to edge quickness is minimal. I noticed zero difference in edgehold.

You can get a smaller radius turn out of either ski. It's easier to get a smaller radius out of the W98 because a) the radius is smaller and b) it's softer. You can get a smaller radius turn out of either ski by either bending it into a tighter turn or skidding the tail out. Both skis are easier to get into a tighter turn than the W112 because of the new tail shape.

If you really can't get over 108 waist on a DD, buy the W108 and cross out the 108 and write 98 on it in sharpie. Seriously, the 10mm is just not a big deal.

Why the kudos on the W108 vs the W98? My guess is because the people that review skis are usually people that ski a lot, ski fast, and like stiffer skis. The W98 is a very good ski, but it's not as stiff as the W108.

I did not get a chance to ski the W88 unfortunately, although apparently it's closer in flex to the W108. Also have not skied the Supernatural or Enforcer.

Mount point - someone at ON3P will have to confirm but I think it's something like -4cm from true center on the Kartel and -9cm on the Wren. Or thereabouts.

[Drunken Shytbird]

[QUOTE=adrenalated;4860207]Don't worry about the waist width. Worry about how you want the ski to feel.

If you really can't get over 108 waist on a DD, buy the W108 and cross out the 108 and write 98 on it in sharpie. Seriously, the 10mm is just not a big deal.

That's pretty damn funny!

[The SnowShow]

I'm loving the feel of the Wren 102s I picked up to be my daily driver. Granted I've only had then out on man made hardback, but they've felt excellent - like how Adrenalated described the new 98s. Thanks to you all for the input a month or so back. I'm very pleased with my ON3Ps - wish I had made the demo. Will there be another one this winter at Loveland?

[teledad]

adrenalated - how would you compare the Wren 108s to the Belafontes? I have the older 182 Belas as my DD - they're starting to show their age though. Looking at the 184 W108 as a possible replacement.

[adrenalated]

Damn similar. W108 is a little more damp. It also skis a little longer than the 182 Bela. So it's a touch more stable. The tail is a little more powerful on the Bela (less rocker), but the W108's tail releases a little easier.

I haven't skied the new Bela, but the W108 would be a great replacement for the old Bela for sure.

[ScrewYou]

I'm loving the feel of the Wren 102s I picked up to be my daily driver. Granted I've only had then out on man made hardback, but they've felt excellent - like how Adrenalated described the new 98s. Thanks to you all for the input a month or so back. I'm very pleased with my ON3Ps - wish I had made the demo. Will there be another one this winter at Loveland?

I knew youd like them. Just wait till you get them on better conditions!

[ScrewYou]

Damn similar. W108 is a little more damp. It also skis a little longer than the 182 Bela. So it's a touch more stable. The tail is a little more powerful on the Bela (less rocker), but the W108's tail releases a little easier.

I haven't skied the new Bela, but the W108 would be a great replacement for the old Bela for sure.

Have you skied a 2013 or 2014 Vicik??

If so, is the new wren 108 significantly burlier?

[adrenalated]

Yep, I've skied the 186 Vicik (I forget which exact year it was) and yep the W108 is stiffer and more stable. Although the W108 might be a little bit easier to pivot thanks to the tail rocker and the Vicik tail might be a little more powerful when you load it up. I'd have to ski them back to back to be sure. But overall the W108 is stiffer, more stable, and more comfortable in longer turns than the Vicik.

And keep in mind that's comparing the 184 W108 to the 186 Vicik. A 189 W108 is going to add the stability advantages of longer length (actual length, effective edge, and running length).

[ScrewYou]

Thats what I want to hear! Thanks

[eskido]

Of note, the 189cm Wren 108 will definitely be more ski than the 186cm Wren 112.

Having a hard time with this per your description, stiffer shovel and mid??? Since tail is obviously not??? For some reason in my mind it doesn't jive

[adrenalated]

Having a hard time with this per your description, stiffer shovel and mid??? Since tail is obviously not??? For some reason in my mind it doesn't jive

Sorry, let me try to clarify.

The flex between the 186cm Wren 112 and 184cm Wren 108 feels the same to me. Tip, tail, and mid. The rocker is longer on the 108 so there's less length to push on/provide rebound back there despite the flex being the same.

The 189cm Wren 108 will be "more" ski because it's longer. Longer length, longer effective edge, longer radius. I am assuming the flex of the 189 and 184 are the same.

So I'm saying the 184 W108 and 186 W112 are comparable. Which means the 189 W108 is going to be more ski.

Does that help?

[The SnowShow]

I knew youd like them. Just wait till you get them on better conditions!

Cannot freaking wait!

[eskido]

Sorry, let me try to clarify.

The flex between the 186cm Wren 112 and 184cm Wren 108 feels the same to me. Tip, tail, and mid. The rocker is longer on the 108 so there's less length to push on/provide rebound back there despite the flex being the same.

The 189cm Wren 108 will be "more" ski because it's longer. Longer length, longer effective edge, longer radius. I am assuming the flex of the 189 and 184 are the same.

So I'm saying the 184 W108 and 186 W112 are comparable. Which means the 189 W108 is going to be more ski.

Does that help?

It does, just having a hard time with the tail difference vs the length vs the tip engagement. Definitely clarified, just hard to imagine same flex throughout with less tail strength being "more" of a ski? But, yes thanks for the great reviews and clarification!

[uglymoney]

Thanks for taking the time to write those mini reviews adrenalated. It helps to shed some light.

On another note a guy I ski with on the regular just ordered some 151 Charlie Murphys for his seventh grader. Can't wait to fondle them!

[adrenalated]

just hard to imagine same flex throughout with less tail strength being "more" of a ski?

When I say "more ski: I mean more stable, more capable at speed.

The tail has little to do with that. The tail does not, as far as I can tell, affect stability, ability to charge, ability to plow through crud, etc. That all comes from the front 2/3 of the ski. What the tail does affect is the ability to pivot and shut down speed quickly (it's better here). It also affects the ability to load the tail and provide rebound out of a turn. This is a really, really specific attribute that only a certain type of skier will appreciate. I'm talking when you ski on the front half of the ski most of the way through the turn, and right before transitioning edges, shift back just slightly to load the tail, then back forward and unweight and use the potential energy stored in the ski when it's flexed to spring you forward into the next turn.

You can still do that with the new tail. It's still a cambered ski. It will just give you slightly less rebound than the old tail.

It's a really specific attribute that I appreciate out of a ski. I doubt most will feel it. It does not affect stability or how hard the ski charges overall.

So as I say, the 189cm W108 is still a longer ski than the 186 W112 in terms of actual length, effective edge, and radius - those are the things that affect stability and capability to charge at speed. So it's "more" ski in that way.

[ScrewYou]

I have some great condition 2014 186cm Viciks, with bindings, for sale if anyones interested. PM me.