ON3P SKIS Discussion

[Cdubmpdx]

As usual TGR forgets that the vast majority of the ski buying public exists outside of TGR....

Frame bindings ain't going anywhere, for a very simple reason. The biggest market for frame bindings is people that currently have alpine gear, and want to try touring without dropping the coin on new boots in addition to all the other shit that they need to buy to go backcountry skiing. A Guardian saves them $100 on the binding and $700+ on a boot, that's not chump change.

For sure, people that actually go backcountry or sidecountry skiing regularly are going to be on tech bindings of some sort. But there will still be a market for frames for a budget conscious beginner.

I agree. For instance, I'm trying to get my wife into touring. She has an alpine setup and boots without pins so I'm looking at getting her frame bindings. It isn't worth the cash for me to fork out on a full tech setup until I know she will be into it and use it.

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[Tailwind]

I feel like this is a classic mistake... I bought my wife a frame binding setup and she didn't love touring. When we got her nice equipment she started really enjoying it. Especially for lighter women the extra weight of frame bindings matters even more. If going uphill is a struggle touring will not be fun. Buy a decent used setup and resell it after a season if it isn't being used. You would not loose much money.

My general philosophy at this point is that if I want my wife to enjoy an activity her gear is as nice as mine is.

I agree. For instance, I'm trying to get my wife into touring. She has an alpine setup and boots without pins so I'm looking at getting her frame bindings. It isn't worth the cash for me to fork out on a full tech setup until I know she will be into it and use it.

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[kid-kapow]

As usual TGR forgets that the vast majority of the ski buying public exists outside of TGR....

Thank you for repeating back points I already made in my pro/con post with the added twist that I and everybody else do/did not consider them...

Frame bindings should die an instant death imho as should the current iteration of Kingpins, but they won't due to the aforementioned reasons. The "best of both worlds"-argument for frame bindings is flawed, as mentioned below. I get that all of these considerations are pretty much worthless if one do not have the cash to pay the difference in cost, but other than that i think poor advice is the primary reason that will keep frame bindings around.

I agree.

i disagree.

While it potentially is a lot of money, going the route of frame bindings is an unnecessary middle step that i suppose will in the long run lessen the chance of her catching the touring bug, not increasing it, while potentially costing more (unless you buy the bindings second hand) due to depreciation of the frame bindings and a tech setup not getting any cheaper. I might be too happy to burn cash on gear, but i always prefer to fully commit to a project if i want to do something, and than take the loss if it doesn't pan out.

By getting her on proper and light(er) weight gear right away - that being gear that can also double up as resort slayers like Shifts, Tectons or Vipecs and some higher end boots - you'll give her all the benefits that makes for an awesome experience from the get go, instead of dragging around on heavy ass touring bindings and boots that may or may not be good to tour in.

Sure, there is a price difference, but if you shop carefully and find sale items that difference might not be as large as you assume - or if you frequent gear swap at all stuff can be had pretty cheaply (especially if you just go for a light weight touring set up instead of go down the Tecton/Shift route which will be more expensive).

I feel like this is a classic mistake... My general philosophy at this point is that if I want my wife to enjoy an activity her gear is as nice as mine is.

Agreed. Hauling heavy gear around is that much more of an issue the smaller you are, being no picnic for big strong skiers as well. If not Shifts would not have been invented, nor light weight tech bindings

Sorry that all this talk of tech binders somewhat derailed the ON3P thread, but then again it is kinda par for the course. I can add a photo of an ON3P pair with some tech binders to somewhat make it less of a derailment

Wren108s in profile with Tectons - my favorite pair in my quiver last year. You are not going to win any competitions to the top, while going down is a whole different ball game

[Cdubmpdx]

Thank you for repeating back points I already made in my pro/con post with the added twist that I and everybody else do/did not consider them...

Frame bindings should die an instant death imho as should the current iteration of Kingpins, but they won't due to the aforementioned reasons. The "best of both worlds"-argument for frame bindings is flawed, as mentioned below. I get that all of these considerations are pretty much worthless if one do not have the cash to pay the difference in cost, but other than that i think poor advice is the primary reason that will keep frame bindings around.



i disagree.

While it potentially is a lot of money, going the route of frame bindings is an unnecessary middle step that i suppose will in the long run lessen the chance of her catching the touring bug, not increasing it, while potentially costing more (unless you buy the bindings second hand) due to depreciation of the frame bindings and a tech setup not getting any cheaper. I might be too happy to burn cash on gear, but i always prefer to fully commit to a project if i want to do something, and than take the loss if it doesn't pan out.

By getting her on proper and light(er) weight gear right away - that being gear that can also double up as resort slayers like Shifts, Tectons or Vipecs and some higher end boots - you'll give her all the benefits that makes for an awesome experience from the get go, instead of dragging around on heavy ass touring bindings and boots that may or may not be good to tour in.

Sure, there is a price difference, but if you shop carefully and find sale items that difference might not be as large as you assume - or if you frequent gear swap at all stuff can be had pretty cheaply (especially if you just go for a light weight touring set up instead of go down the Tecton/Shift route which will be more expensive).



Agreed. Hauling heavy gear around is that much more of an issue the smaller you are, being no picnic for big strong skiers as well. If not Shifts would not have been invented, nor light weight tech bindings

Sorry that all this talk of tech binders somewhat derailed the ON3P thread, but then again it is kinda par for the course. I can add a photo of an ON3P pair with some tech binders to somewhat make it less of a derailment

Wren108s in profile with Tectons - my favorite pair in my quiver last year. You are not going to win any competitions to the top, while going down is a whole different ball game

Looks like TGR saved my marriage and may hurt my bank account. I guess I'll throw down on some real gear for her and save the step. Usually what I find in just about everything else, so it makes sense. Appreciate the pointers. BTW, I have a pair of those Wren 108s getting mounted with shifts tomorrow as a slack country short tour and inbound setup. Didn't think anyone else toured on those Wrens. Hows it working out for you? Downhill performance is my main goal in this setup.

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[kid-kapow]

Heavy on the up, party on the way down.

As stated before, I think w108s are awesome, and Tectons ski pretty well as well, so I was very happy with said setup. My new custom pair of w108s will get Shifts instead of Tectons for max inbounds chargability, yet good enough tourability. They will primarily be used as a resort-centric tourer. I am fortunate in that i can access a lot of killer terrain close to some of the resorts I ride where lifts help me gain alot of altitude, so do not mind the extra weight (even if less would be great ).

That is not to say that i will not go on longer tours with my w108s - I just prefer to ride new snow into oblivion in resorts prior to going out on long tours. Yes, I am a bit on the lazy/maximize the downhill enjoyment side of things.

[Cdubmpdx]

Heavy on the up, party on the way down.

As stated before, I think w108s are awesome, and Tectons ski pretty well as well, so I was very happy with said setup. My new custom pair of w108s will get Shifts instead of Tectons for max inbounds chargability, yet good enough tourability. They will primarily be used as a resort-centric tourer. I am fortunate in that i can access a lot of killer terrain close to some of the resorts I ride where lifts help me gain alot of altitude, so do not mind the extra weight (even if less would be great ).

That is not to say that i will not go on longer tours with my w108s - I just prefer to ride new snow into oblivion in resorts prior to going out on long tours. Yes, I am a bit on the lazy/maximize the downhill enjoyment side of things.

I'm the exact same way. I went back and forth on a tour layup or standard and finally just talked to the good folks at ON3P who helped decide standard is the way to go. I live in Portland, so lift accessed tours aren't the best but there are some. In general my tour days are shorter when exclusively touring and I know the mountains well enough to find resort pow for 3 or 4 days after a storm which is where I spend most or my days. Just like taking the dog for a tour lap sometimes before hitting the chairs and sometimes it's just nice to get away from the crowds.

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[kid-kapow]

To be honest - I kicked myself for not getting them in tour layup prior to my new pairs arriving, but once they did and with me realizing that the new ones weren't that much different than my current made me all the more happy that I went with everything stock besides the graphics. Their ability to just charge through bumps and stay composed, while also being great on edge and super easy to ski, is what i really like about them - super intuitive yet can charge. Can't wait to try them with Shifts. I think they will be everything i want and then some.

[cstefanic]

Nothing of value to add to the current conversation, but wanted to thank Bandit Man for helping push me over the edge to get some BGs back in the quiver for the first time in 5 years.

[kid-kapow]

nice! I was actually looking for a decently lit photo of the current BG with the standard top sheet (as opposed to clear nylon) earlier today on Instagram - and here you deliver the goods! Thanks - man those look sensational! This years BG graphic is an instant classic for sure.

[jackattack]

Nothing of value to add to the current conversation, but wanted to thank Bandit Man for helping push me over the edge to get some BGs back in the quiver for the first time in 5 years.

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Nice

Is that a wallpaper or did you paint it?

[cstefanic]

Nice

Is that a wallpaper or did you paint it?

It's a mural of Crystal Mountain and Rainier painted by Jonny Bobgan (Drawn to Sketching). Started as just a way to hide a boring wall and turned into a house centerpiece.

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[Cdubmpdx]

It's a mural of Crystal Mountain and Rainier painted by Jonny Bobgan (Drawn to Sketching). Started as just a way to hide a boring wall and turned into a house centerpiece.

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That's just beautiful. I might steal this idea

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[Rob D!]

It would make a killer topsheet, too!

[Bandit Man]

Nothing of value to add to the current conversation, but wanted to thank Bandit Man for helping push me over the edge to get some BGs back in the quiver for the first time in 5 years.

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Glad to see you pulled the trigger. Looking forward to your impressions of the latest iteration.

[Doremite]

It's a mural of Crystal Mountain and Rainier painted by Jonny Bobgan (Drawn to Sketching). Started as just a way to hide a boring wall and turned into a house centerpiece.

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Dig the barn door too

[SkiLyft]

Hoping this decal adds +5HP to these bad bois




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[Doremite]

Useless without a quote bubble

[SkiLyft]

Useless without a quote bubble

Fakkkkk time to dispose of the skis any takers


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[Reformed]

Useless without a quote bubble

LOL - 10 points!

[Reformed]

Fakkkkk time to dispose of the skis any takers


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Dibs

[paal]

Third and final quiver update for the coming season - a pair of custom stiffer kartel116s in 181cm length - with some BG-graphics to fit in with the BG crowd.

Attachment 252440

These are the ones that i am the most excited to use, of the three new pairs (which says a lot as i already love w108s and am super excited about w114s ). Will be mounted with shifts.

The stiffness/flex of the pair is quite nice - the extra backbone compared to stock k108s will probably make em more versatile, especially as the stiffness is still nowhere close to wren88s. I think they will be an awesome daily driver in one of my two quivers (2x 3(/4)-ski quivers) - the one for the more snow rich location. I am sure they will do a lot of things very well - properly excited!

Awesome looking skis!
Is the tip rocker similar, or perhaps a bit bigger on the BG?
Next time you're bored, could you please post a BG/K116 rocker comparison picture?

[kid-kapow]

will post photos at a later date - transfer issues right now sadly.

That being said, from examining my pics closely the rocker lines up front is quite similar. K116s might be a cm longer or some such, but both reach a very similar height. The shape of the tips is slightly different as you can tell from the photos - more vs less round. More camber and a bit longer rear rocker are the two biggest differences between the two skis rocker shape wise. If you cut 1-2cm off the k116's tails then the tails might be surprisingly similar as well. I guess Iggy or someone else can chime in as well. There's only 1.5cm difference in ee, if that helps.

the rest of the skis is obviously pretty different in terms of mount point, sidecut, RES vs bi-radius and so on.

i can't wait to try k116s. I think they will be super versatile soft snow slayers that are a tad more forgiving than w114s Should be absolutely awesome.

[paal]

"There's only 1.5cm difference in ee"

That sums it up nicely, thanks!
(won't get mad at any pictures though )

[kid-kapow]

will do wrt the photos - I just need to think of a way to transfer them locally from my drive so i can upload them, dunno why it is not working like it should.

Yeah, as we spoke about before, getting on some kartels - be they 108s (probably the more logical quiver addition) or 116s - should be a nice compliment to your Supergoats and BG184s. They would add some playfulness while also adding a bit of on-piste turnyness. Stock Kartels do not have the same out and out speed as Wrens or BGs imo, but are more playful and are super fun to arch turns with. The custom stiffer part of my k116s is just to give em a bit more umph for punching through variable, dense snow. And like all ON3Ps, unless it is blue ice, the sorted rocker profiles makes for really fun, easy to ski skis that punch above their width in fresh.

I will keep my k108s as the main daily driver for my lower snow location quiver, possibly to be replaced by next year by either stiffer k108s customs or the new 2020 ski Iggy has been hinting at previously that supposedly is a bit more chargy (a reply to Betel in the joy of a thread that is the Katana-debacle). Until then stock k108s will remain in place - I really like them and they are oh so pretty as well, and to be remounted with Shifts for maximum FOMO-mitigation



sorry to repost photos, but i never get tired of looking at nice looking skis

[kid-kapow]

Finally found a way to transfer said files.

The first three are of w108s (left) vs w114 (right), both 179s. The last three are K116 181s (left) and BG 179s (right).