ON3P SKIS Discussion

[FlimFlamvanHam]

thanks for the feedback guys, sounds like even directional skiers are going recommended mount point which i guess doesn't surprise me too much - i was just a little taken back by the difference in recommended point between the Wrens and the Kartels. yep different skis, different flex, geometry, etc...different mount points, i totally get that

i do recall reading more than one post about only mounting on the recommended for the BG, what with the RES and unique geometry of that ski it's no surprise folks have issues deviating from it.

fwiw ON3P did tell me to not deviate more than -2cm or +2cm because you then run the risk of mounting outside the intended area of the ski - maybe additional reinforcement there? also because of the shape/flex pattern of the ski and the bi radial sidecut it seems there could be issues

thanks again for the input guys, looks like its 3 for on the line, 2 for -2cm? i'm gonna let this one sit for a while and whatever i do end up choosing i'll post up results...

I'd mount -2 without a 2nd thought. Here's why:

I'm as directional as fuck.

I've owned a similar ski to the Kartel which is the Bibby in both 184 and 190, both times mounted on the line (-6 is rec) and both times if I did it over again I'd go back -1 easy, just to be able to lean on the tips more in deep snow. The 184's, I found, left a lot to be desired in pow.

The K108 in 189 are actually more than 189 where the Moments are not 188 in 190 so I'd imagine the Kartel is even more balanced and easy to move around on since the mount is further forward.

I mounted my W108 184's -1cm since I went with the same for/aft ratio as the 189 (which is more rearward biased than the 184). I honestly do not think someone is going to notice 1 or 2 cms too much to the point where they cannot easily adjust to it (Body may disagree), but I do think it makes a big difference in actual deep snow where the added tip is more to what I prefer.

If you're switchy spinny then all this is moot.

[galibier_numero_un]

... also these are asymmetrical.

Which means that the long effective edge should be under her big toes and the short edges under her little toes.

... Thom

[cstefanic]

Dumb question, but is the only way to get green sidewalls to do a full custom build?

[Norseman]

Dumb question, but is the only way to get green sidewalls to do a full custom build?

spray paint? nail polllllish?

[MHSP1497]

Dumb question, but is the only way to get green sidewalls to do a full custom build?

Yep. My 15/16 Goats are bone-stock except for the green sidewalls.

Or, as stated above, spray paint or nail polish.

[JaytaeMoney]

FWIW. Directional skier. Enjoy the recommended mount on the Kartel line. In face. I do t think I have ever deviated from the recommended mount on any ON3P ski.

Late to the party but another data point for posterity since I asked this exact same question back in March: I'm a directional skier as well for the most part and love my K108s on the line. Ridiculously fun ski.

[Reformed]

Has anyone here been out on the current Cease and Desist? I'm a believer in RES and know that this ski will slay in its natural environment. A certain ski by that "other" company *cough* Protest *cough* is a known entity and certainly slays pow. C&D in the same league as Protest? Better? Worse? Different?

[auvgeek]

Like Adrenalated said you can move the mount point and no doubt it will ski fine, but to me you are trying to make the something it is not. The Kartel is so fun and easy going. Makes the mountain fun and you can just relax on it.

As someone who loves a progressive mount, I also recognize that a progressive mount has drawbacks, namely in soft chop/tracked pow, where it requires better fore-aft balance than a more traditional mount. I don't see why mounting -1 or -2 wouldn't alleviate some of the drawbacks while retaining most of the positives for a very directional skier.

PS. typed this reply over a week ago but guess I forgot to hit submit.

[RudyGarmisch]

Has anyone here been out on the current Cease and Desist? I'm a believer in RES and know that this ski will slay in its natural environment. A certain ski by that "other" company *cough* Protest *cough* is a known entity and certainly slays pow. C&D in the same league as Protest? Better? Worse? Different?

Current owner but haven’t skied the current Protest. I switch to wrens for the afternoon on resort pow days. But in untracked anything - holy F. It’s not light to tour with compared to dynafits, but the ride down is so much better.

[SupreChicken]

Has anyone here been out on the current Cease and Desist? I'm a believer in RES and know that this ski will slay in its natural environment. A certain ski by that "other" company *cough* Protest *cough* is a known entity and certainly slays pow. C&D in the same league as Protest? Better? Worse? Different?

I will write this comparison after a couple of deep days.

Previously owned and still like the 196 protest. Sold it because I wasn’t ever reaching for it once I owned 191 Billy goats. Sprang for C&D this summer. I prefer the res tip to just about anything else in deep snow

[Reformed]

I will write this comparison after a couple of deep days.

Fuck yeah! My current data points are a 187 Protest (would go 192 if I purchased) and my 184 Steeple 108s. Not a fair comparison obviously, but I've been really impressed with the Steeple's pow performance for a ski that is 108 underfoot. Steeples make me think that the C&Ds will be right there with the Protest in pow and probably better in mixed crud/firmer conditions. Looking forward to your thoughts.

[Bruce Springskiin]

Mag? Some Yakima/NSP VIP has a nice ON3P Quiver



- I am here for the stoke

[Drazzamatazz]

So I bought some Billy Goats somewhat on a whim!!! Was looking for a new powder ski, and most importantly something that I could take to Japan with me this winter. Turns out a buddy of mine who guides out there has an excess pair of Protests, so there's Japow covered. After debating a few skis (Wildcat, Meridian 117, Bent Chetler, Kartel 116, etc.) I randomly felt the draw towards some Goats. Well, not totally randomly, lots of helpful back-and-forth through email.
They are destined to be here Friday, I thought I had a plan for everything, but looking for advice. Do I mount them with my new Shifts (plan was to put inserts on my powder ski & 50/50 Praxis Backcountry) or rip the STH2's off my older Faty-pus D-Senders that potentially have moved into a "rock ski" slot now?
Stoked for these skis to show up. Went 179 standard lay-up after much deliberating or 184 tour lay-up. I'm on the smaller side and will use these for a lot of tree skiing on the East Coast, hence the smaller length.

[auvgeek]

Personally, I think they're too heavy to tour on. Throw your STH on them. If you want a pow touring ski with Shifts, Moment's new lineup looks dope (you already knew that).

[Gman]

So I bought some Billy Goats somewhat on a whim!!! Was looking for a new powder ski, and most importantly something that I could take to Japan with me this winter. Turns out a buddy of mine who guides out there has an excess pair of Protests, so there's Japow covered. After debating a few skis (Wildcat, Meridian 117, Bent Chetler, Kartel 116, etc.) I randomly felt the draw towards some Goats. Well, not totally randomly, lots of helpful back-and-forth through email.
They are destined to be here Friday, I thought I had a plan for everything, but looking for advice. Do I mount them with my new Shifts (plan was to put inserts on my powder ski & 50/50 Praxis Backcountry) or rip the STH2's off my older Faty-pus D-Senders that potentially have moved into a "rock ski" slot now?
Stoked for these skis to show up. Went 179 standard lay-up after much deliberating or 184 tour lay-up. I'm on the smaller side and will use these for a lot of tree skiing on the East Coast, hence the smaller length.

I'm in the exact same dilemma as you. My 184 BG's arrive Tuesday and I ski primarily up in Northern VT. I'm not sure how often you're storm chasing but the likelihood that you're going to tour on a ski that is 116 underfoot on the east coast is probably slim. Unless you're getting some deep days on mount washington, the BG is probably going to be a heavier ski than you'll want to tour in.

[kid-kapow]

i would go for Shifts on them because #FOMO.

A BG+Shift will never be that lightweight tourer for extended tours, but with Shifts you have the option at least. That is, if you ski in the kind of terrain where doing impromptu shorter lift assisted tours are an option, or if you are just excited to go out touring and have as strong legs as you are stoked.

Having the opportunity to do whatever whenever is THE biggest reasons i gravitate toward Shifts - in fact, I placed my order today for a few pairs for similar setups (wren114 + k116, both with shifts) That freedom is worth a bit to me at least.

[Drazzamatazz]

Yeah, I guess ultimately I need to see what skates down with the Protests. If I end up bringing the Billy Goats to Japan I'm going to need Shifts on them for sure.
Otherwise, STH on Billy Goats, Shifts on BC, old 816 demo on D-Sender will probably do well.

[Kopi_Red]

Billy Goats + Shifts = awesome side country Japan ski

[TahoeJ]

I'm mounting up a new pair of skis for Japan this January and going with Shifts as well. Seems ideal, since you'll likely be riding a lot of lifts and likely doing short skins back from slack country descents.

[Drazzamatazz]

Well there we have it. Shifts it is.

[californiagrown]

i would go for Shifts on them because #FOMO.

A BG+Shift will never be that lightweight tourer for extended tours, but with Shifts you have the option at least. That is, if you ski in the kind of terrain where doing impromptu shorter lift assisted tours are an option, or if you are just excited to go out touring and have as strong legs as you are stoked.

Having the opportunity to do whatever whenever is THE biggest reasons i gravitate toward Shifts - in fact, I placed my order today for a few pairs for similar setups (wren114 + k116, both with shifts) That freedom is worth a bit to me at least.

Seems like a frame AT binding would accomplish the same thing, no? Short tours and an emphasis on inbounds performance?

[galibier_numero_un]

It's funny, how the Tecton gets overlooked in this discussion. Having said that, I get the Shifts for 80/20 (lift/slackcountry).

Seems like a frame AT binding would accomplish the same thing, no? Short tours and an emphasis on inbounds performance?

I think a lot of folks don't get on with the stack height. I know I don't.

I ski better with even a Dynafit Comfort than with (for example) a Marker Duke

... Thom

[TahoeJ]

It's funny, how the Tecton gets overlooked in this discussion. Having said that, I get the Shifts for 80/20 (lift/slackcountry).

I have two setups with Tectons and love them. But I'm taking Shifts to Japan since I'm going to be inbounds quite a bit and not planning to do a huge amount of touring, just some slack country and maybe a random couple of laps here or there. Tectons are great but you can definitely still tell you're skiing a tech binding.

As for frame bindings... the weight is a pain not just when touring but also inbounds - they just make your skis heavy as shit.

[Doremite]

Agree BGs won’t be a great ec touring rig although tours aren’t that long or grueling so weight less of a factor than in some place bigger. All depends where you’ll be using them and how often.

Out of curiosity how big are you to go 179cm?

[kid-kapow]

Seems like a frame AT binding would accomplish the same thing, no? Short tours and an emphasis on inbounds performance?

The time of frame bindings ( and Kingpins) has come and gone, and especially frame bindings should be relegated to the past tense over next few seasons.

With both Tectons and Shifts now being easily available - both vastly superior products for slack country use imo and with there being no comparison for touring - there is simply no reason other than limited resources to go with frame bindings imho. Like none, zero, zip. And if your resources are stretched, ride what you have a bit longer and save up some more funds - it is well worth it in the long run.

If you buy a set of new, expensive skis and mount frame bindings on them for the use we are debating, then i would urge you to reconsider. The only full on at bindings you should consider for touring are cast modified p18s.

yes, all these products - bindings + potentially new boots - are expensive, but for slack country and touring use they are so worth the extra cost that it is not even funny. They will make your skiing experience that much more enjoyable.

And yes, i agree - tectons are a fine option as well, especially for a powder ski or more dedicated touring skis. They ski and tour great. I ran my 179cm BGs with Tectons last year. Had i not replaced them with k116s and w114s (the joy of two quivers) i would probably have remounted them with Shifts for a full on alpine front for what is primarily resort use.