ON3P SKIS Discussion

[MHSP1497]

So far, the 4 pair I have bought in the last 3-years have been tuned perfectly out of the plastic from the factory. Best factory tune I’ve seen yet.

I did further detune the tips/tails on my K98’s as they initially felt a little grabby in fresh/loose snow. I just used some gummi stones for that and it’s really more of a personal preference thing.

My wife’s Wren 88’s and my BG’s went from plastic to slopes within days without any further detune needed.

[blackalps]

good to know, thanks

[waxoff]

I'd make sure first to check if they put any base bevel at all on the edges when they were tuned. From your description it sounds like it can have been overlooked.

[tuco]

I reason I said research is there can be a few causes of these symptoms and a little learning is not a bad thing.
Just like any trouble shooting start w/ easiest thing 1st, which is what 2F described
Could be a hanging burr--deburr it
If the tech doesn't know how to properly maintain the stone, it can get burred, remove too much base material, and end result is railed ski.-- this is a regrind.
Could be that edges hit stone and have structure in the metal. This also results in improper base bevel and a railed feeling ski-- fix is to reset base bevels..

[rainy512day]

Oh, I'm definitely not trying to say I'm the best skier on earth and the skis are the problem.

I had Icelantic Nomad 95's, Line Sick Day 114's, and Line Mordecais before this.

As far as how they ride, they're really hooky. I have to really keep them on edge and in a turn, can't ride flat at all or they'll catch an edge and throw me. Feels like trying to balance on a knife edge on ice skates.

Definitely sounds like a tuning issue. I had similar issues after getting my Wren 98s tuned at a local PDX shop-not-to-be-named. I stopped by the ON3P factory on the way home from the mountain, they took a look and were like, ‘those guys should know better’. They did a quick tune and problem solved.

[iggyskier]

hey dudes. so I got some 17 Wrenegade 98's at the end of the season last year. Skied them on 3 days, one day with 18" of basically unskiable heavy wet concrete, one that was refrozen crust over old choppy crud, and one that was just super skied out packed down older snow. I didn't really have a good time on them, I found them to be super hooky which I assumed was the tune but looking at them now, the tune doesn't look bad at all. TBF, I did get them tuned at REI because everyone else was booked up. They were good straightlining down steep shit, like HOLY FUCKNUTS these things are stable and fast, but other than that I didn't love them. What do you think? just a couple of bad days and I should give them a chance this season? I'm trying to sort out my quiver before the season starts and get really good prices if I buy now vs later in the season, ON3P isn't on the discount menu, unfortunately.

Sorry to hear about the issues - though does sound tune related. Everyone here already posted all the right answers, but the skis are either 1) not properly detuned, 2) not base beveled, or 3) railed (edge high). We're real aggressive in our rocker profiles, so we go heavy on the detune outside the running length. We also think most techs run the edges on our skis too sharp within the running length, with results exactly like you are discussing here, so run through 1-3 above and correct anything that might be wrong and you should find them a lot more easy going.

If you want any help from us directly, just reach out directly over email/phone/chat.

edges are good contact point to contact point, seem to be detuned-ish on the rocker. at least to my very unofficial rubbing my finger across it test.

Detune should be pretty noticeable, so if it seems sharp at all, likely not enough. Lack of detune/proper gummi is the most common thing we see when we have customers with tune questions. As everyone has already said, I'd start there.

I'm sure every tech @ REI is not a tard.
Even good shops can have a tech you don't want with your skis in their hand, trust me.

Agreed. One of our better finishers worked at REI before she worked here. That said, we see poorly re-tuned skis frequently enough that I always recommend people spend the time to find a tech who knows what they are doing.

I would buy a gummy stone. Detune them real well to contact points. Ski a run and see how they feel. If still hooky detune deeper into the ski by about an inch. Ski again. Rinse and repeat until they no hook no mo.
Personally if I have a shop tune my skis I tell them to not detune them. Sharp all the way. I then detune to where I think they need to be and adjust on the hill the first couple of runs. Usually only takes one or two runs.

I generally suggest file for initial detune, then gummi to smooth out - and gummi within the running length.

As far as how they ride, they're really hooky. I have to really keep them on edge and in a turn, can't ride flat at all or they'll catch an edge and throw me. Feels like trying to balance on a knife edge on ice skates.

Pretty much a dictionary description of edges that are too sharp.

side note, maybe ON3P is better, but it's always been my understanding that factory tune from most companies isn't that great.

Generally, we're putting out one of the better factory tunes out there, but it fits our style and how we think our skis should ride. If you are coming from really sharp skis, they will definitely take a couple runs to get used to.

I reason I said research is there can be a few causes of these symptoms and a little learning is not a bad thing.
Just like any trouble shooting start w/ easiest thing 1st, which is what 2F described
Could be a hanging burr--deburr it
If the tech doesn't know how to properly maintain the stone, it can get burred, remove too much base material, and end result is railed ski.-- this is a regrind.
Could be that edges hit stone and have structure in the metal. This also results in improper base bevel and a railed feeling ski-- fix is to reset base bevels..

As Tuco said above, go through progression above and rule them out.

1) Ensure proper detune - you can do this with a file, gummi, and fingernail. We're running detune contact to contact now. Progressive for first 2-3" of edge past end of contact length and beyond that edge should be well rounded. We're pretty aggressive underfoot with the gummi as well.
2) Ensure proper base bevel. Any sort of hard edge against the edge can show you, at least, if there is a bevel (like a razor blade). If you don't see any light at all over the edge, edges are at 0 and even if they were detuned, would still pull and hook.
3) Ensure skis are flat. Railed (edge high) skis can definitely feel like skated and would require a new base tune.

Don't pay for a new tune without at least running through checks on all of those above. Hope that helps.

Definitely sounds like a tuning issue. I had similar issues after getting my Wren 98s tuned at a local PDX shop-not-to-be-named. I stopped by the ON3P factory on the way home from the mountain, they took a look and were like, ‘those guys should know better’. They did a quick tune and problem solved.

Glad we were able to help.

[BC.]

Sorry to hear about the issues - though does sound tune related. Everyone here already posted all the right answers, but the skis are either 1) not properly detuned, 2) not base beveled, or 3) railed (edge high). We're real aggressive in our rocker profiles, so we go heavy on the detune outside the running length. We also think most techs run the edges on our skis too sharp within the running length, with results exactly like you are discussing here, so run through 1-3 above and correct anything that might be wrong and you should find them a lot more easy going.

If you want any help from us directly, just reach out directly over email/phone/chat.



Detune should be pretty noticeable, so if it seems sharp at all, likely not enough. Lack of detune/proper gummi is the most common thing we see when we have customers with tune questions. As everyone has already said, I'd start there.



Agreed. One of our better finishers worked at REI before she worked here. That said, we see poorly re-tuned skis frequently enough that I always recommend people spend the time to find a tech who knows what they are doing.



I generally suggest file for initial detune, then gummi to smooth out - and gummi within the running length.



Pretty much a dictionary description of edges that are too sharp.



Generally, we're putting out one of the better factory tunes out there, but it fits our style and how we think our skis should ride. If you are coming from really sharp skis, they will definitely take a couple runs to get used to.



As Tuco said above, go through progression above and rule them out.

1) Ensure proper detune - you can do this with a file, gummi, and fingernail. We're running detune contact to contact now. Progressive for first 2-3" of edge past end of contact length and beyond that edge should be well rounded. We're pretty aggressive underfoot with the gummi as well.
2) Ensure proper base bevel. Any sort of hard edge against the edge can show you, at least, if there is a bevel (like a razor blade). If you don't see any light at all over the edge, edges are at 0 and even if they were detuned, would still pull and hook.
3) Ensure skis are flat. Railed (edge high) skis can definitely feel like skated and would require a new base tune.

Don't pay for a new tune without at least running through checks on all of those above. Hope that helps.



Glad we were able to help.

What tune do you guys put on before sending out? 1/1, 1/2, 1/3?
I have a pair of Wren 108’s coming East......I won’t touch em...see how they ski...and adjust accordingly (usually ski a 1/3).

[tuco]

I generally suggest file for initial detune, then gummi to smooth out - and gummi within the running length.

Pretty much a dictionary description of edges that are too sharp.

Generally, we're putting out one of the better factory tunes out there, but it fits our style and how we think our skis should ride. If you are coming from really sharp skis, they will definitely take a couple runs to get used to.
.

Yep, I start roundover w/ file as well.

That too sharp feeling can come from a plain burr as well and rectified with a simple polishing to remove the burr.

If there is a better factory tune, I have yet to see it.

[iggyskier]

What tune do you guys put on before sending out? 1/1, 1/2, 1/3?
I have a pair of Wren 108’s coming East......I won’t touch em...see how they ski...and adjust accordingly (usually ski a 1/3).

1/1 out of the factory. Tune wise, I normally tell people to give them 1-2 days from any changes, too, as the snow will often do any final minor detuning/evening if there needs to be a touch more.

Yep, I start roundover w/ file as well.

That too sharp feeling can come from a plain burr as well and rectified with a simple polishing to remove the burr.

It always blows me away how many kids will hit an edge a couple times with a gummi and think it is enough to hit rails with. Files save so much time on this stuff (though, in production, everything is done on machines - including park detuning).

If there is a better factory tune, I have yet to see it.

Thanks! I appreciate hearing that. If you ever have feedback or other skis you think we should check out, let me know. We're always trying to improve.

BTW - that box of ski materials ever show up?

[tuco]

BTW - that box of ski materials ever show up?

Yes it did. There is enough there to fix D's ski 10X.
Repair is partially finished, just trying to square away prior commitments and I'll get it finished and post that shit up. Lookin good so far.
Thanks dude! It's highly appreciated and I know D appreciates it too. You're the man!

[blackalps]

Glad we were able to help.

Hey thanks for the info, much appreciated. Cheers

[blackalps]

Well, I took my Wrens in to work yesterday and looked at them with the head tech. The bases are flat and have good structure, so not railed. Base bevel looks to be maybe too flat, and the edges are quite sharp way out to the tips. So I'll fix those things this week and then wait until it snows, I guess. Gonna have to hide my skis at the shop, we don't sell ON3P and people kept asking about them. One woman was buying new skis from me and as I rung her up, she looked over my shoulder at my Wrens with black Pivots on them, and goes, "whose are those? Those things are siiiiick" LOL

[Bruce Springskiin]

and the edges are quite sharp way out to the tips.

Sounds about right, as mentioned start with rounding the edge from the contact points and out to the tip/tail. Ski and adjust if needed. Also when you mentioned wet heavy snow it sounded as if those were extra grabby conditions. Ski them a half dozen days and report back.



- I am here for the stoke

[blackalps]

Sounds about right, as mentioned start with rounding the edge from the contact points and out to the tip/tail. Ski and adjust if needed. Also when you mentioned wet heavy snow it sounded as if those were extra grabby conditions. Ski them a half dozen days and report back.




- I am here for the stoke

yeah that's the plan. I'm going to put a base bevel on and detune past the contact points. thanks!

[Norseman]

Good to confirm the sharpness. Sharp out to the tips is unbearable.

If you feel like getting nerdy with the file... some folks (cough) put a variable base bevel on their skis, with 1° underfoot and most of the way to the contact points, and 2 or 3° to blend into the detune like 2 inches inboard of the CPs.

[TahoeJ]

yeah that's the plan. I'm going to put a base bevel on and detune past the contact points. thanks!

I recommend going gradually with it. So before the end of the contact points (maybe a few inches) you keep it somewhat mellow / gradual with just a gummi stone and then get more aggressive as you work your way closer to the tips / tails.

I never get shop tunes anymore unless I'm having a base-grind done, and even then I'll de-tune the edges again right after I get them back before they touch snow.

I think so many ski reviews often have as much to do with the tune as the ski design itself. Especially when people are only on them for a few laps.

[blackalps]

I recommend going gradually with it. So before the end of the contact points (maybe a few inches) you keep it somewhat mellow / gradual with just a gummi stone and then get more aggressive as you work your way closer to the tips / tails.

I never get shop tunes anymore unless I'm having a base-grind done, and even then I'll de-tune the edges again right after I get them back before they touch snow.

I think so many ski reviews often have as much to do with the tune as the ski design itself. Especially when people are only on them for a few laps.

yeah our head tech was telling me yesterday about demo days he's worked over the years, and how much the state of tune of the demo fleet has directly translated into sales from the demo day.

[N1CK.]

FWIW, the day I demo'd the W98s I had the same issues being discussed here.

[TahoeJ]

yeah our head tech was telling me yesterday about demo days he's worked over the years, and how much the state of tune of the demo fleet has directly translated into sales from the demo day.

Not to mention, to a certain degree, how a ski is tuned is such a personal preference. I'm a tip driver, so with heavily rockered skis I've learned over the years that I really have to give them an aggressive de-tune up front to avoid any hooki-ness. And I would imagine that more centered skiers need to take extra care on the tail-side in comparison.

[blackalps]

FWIW, the day I demo'd the W98s I had the same issues being discussed here.

I've had a couple people PM me and say they had the same issues with their Wrens as well.

[galibier_numero_un]

Scott has your TGR ON3P world on lockdown [emoji869]

I’m still alive, just working with Dentists a lot these days (no, I’m not joking).

Let’s shred this winter!

Looking forward to it.

... Thom

[Banh Mi]

I had a sort of railed feeling issue with brand new Jeffrey 114s and Kartel 116s, although they werent railed. I got them to work Ok in softer Mank, but it was hard for me to enjoy them on any firm snow. Had a few instances I thought maybe, but overall no. Felt way too locked in. Took em to the shop a few times each, trying to fix, no real luck. I think I needed the edges on the contact points to be super dull, and I wish I tried to really knock em down, cuz the skis were close for me otherwise. I just didnt know how much I’d affect resale value by doing that, and if/then they still didnt work.

I had a similar but much more minor feeling on used 191 Wrens, but a couple of swipes of a file and they instantly got better, and ended up being some of my favorite skis ever.

I recommend messing with the tune, I feel stupid for not going deeper with my Jeffreys/Kartels. Cuz they coulda have been some of the “best skis ever” if I didnt have that railed feeling on firm or manky snow. I really enjoyed everything else about them.

I also feel stupid for selling those 191 Wrens.


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[ASmileyFace]

Anyone selling some goats?

With a new season right around the corner I'm finding myself in desperate need for some Billy Goats. I may end up just buying all new but I figure I'll post up here first and see if anyone is looking to unload a pair.

[uglymoney]

Well, I took my Wrens in to work yesterday and looked at them with the head tech. The bases are flat and have good structure, so not railed. Base bevel looks to be maybe too flat, and the edges are quite sharp way out to the tips. So I'll fix those things this week and then wait until it snows, I guess. Gonna have to hide my skis at the shop, we don't sell ON3P and people kept asking about them. One woman was buying new skis from me and as I rung her up, she looked over my shoulder at my Wrens with black Pivots on them, and goes, "whose are those? Those things are siiiiick" LOL

I found the same with my base bevel. Did a full rework by hand to 1 degree across the entire edge starting with a file then moving down through a couple of stones. Didn't have much effect that I could tell but I removed hella metal. Someone here said they think the bevel might not run across the entire length of the edge since they are so wide so that is why they appear too flat. I don't know.

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[iggyskier]

Someone here said they think the bevel might not run across the entire length of the edge since they are so wide so that is why they appear too flat. I don't know.

If the shop didn't adjust the belt width on the edge tuner before they tuned our edges, as they are wider than most, you would have a section of flat edge not touched by the belt. We've seen that a couple times when shops were just in automatic mode and throwing the skis straight to the edger without any adjustment.