ON3P SKIS Discussion

[undertow2]

Where's the face-palm emoji?

I've been scheming about how to run my WTR, XT-130 Freetours at a demo since the guyz at ON3P are still in mid-transition to WTR Tyrolias according to Powtron. A sole block fabrication project for the Langes stalled when I realized that I needed a better tool than my belt sander for planing down my newly fabricated sole blocks.

Flash of light ... demo some boots, knucklehead! I just picked up a pair to use tomorrow for under $20.

I re-read this thread from post #1800 to today and what did I learn? Nada.

I'm still interested in either Wren 98's or 108's and tomorow's low tide conditions at Loveland will tell the story. Given a choice of softer vs. harder conditions, I'd prefer the latter as I'm interested in finding the DD that makes end of the day (when tired) bumps with scratchy downhill sides tolerable.

My recent errors with a daily driver selection for Colorado have been due to getting a bit too stiff of a tail for this purpose. I'd like to get through life without needing knee replacements ;-)

... Thom

I have been on the 98s since last year and got the 108s this year and have enough time on both and what you are looking for and describing are the 98s... I absolutely love the 98s and to date are hands down my favorite do it all ski that are an absolute breeze to ski... Fast edge to edge... Hold an edge like a champ and really do not have any weakness... The 108s are a really good ski, but need more speed to come alive, but def charge more... One thing about both you can throw them sideways and shut them down like a quickly... I have said it several times and Iqqy agreed and that is I have no idea how the guys will improve the design of this Wren series...

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[galibier_numero_un]

I have been on the 98s since last year and got the 108s this year and have enough time on both and what you are looking for and describing are the 98s... I absolutely love the 98s and to date are hands down my favorite do it all ski that are an absolute breeze to ski... Fast edge to edge... Hold an edge like a champ and really do not have any weakness... The 108s are a really good ski, but need more speed to come alive, but def charge more... One thing about both you can throw them sideways and shut them down like a quickly... I have said it several times and Iqqy agreed and that is I have no idea how the guys will improve the design of this Wren series...

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That's a great piece of advice and, my sense is (that within the ON3P line) that the 98 is the true "center" of the hole in my quiver. Hopefully Powtron got some 98's in since we communicated last week.

I could easily convince myself that 108 creates enough separation between itself and my Billy Goats, GPOs and Quixotes. This would make sense if my home turf was Jackson or Alta, but the Colorado Front Range? Of course @skibass's 2 ski quiver for Jackson is Wren 98s and Billy Goats, so it's not as if there's a wrong answer.

I'm guessing that I'm not the only one who drools over skis based on conditions they wished they saw more of than what they actually experience. Why else do I currently own 3 pair in the 116-118 category and only an "obsolete" 102 along with a 109 rock ski (not counting a pair of Nanuqs mounted for touring).

Given your experiences with the Freerides my money is on the 98 for you.

Softer tail. I get it. Even Keith said he hated getting Freeride tails snagged in bumps. Sometimes, it's hard to control where you end up at the end of the day in low tide conditions. WTF was I thinking?

... Thom

[adrenalated]

I think the 108 is plenty different than the GPO, BG, and Q. In fact I think my Wren 112s are plenty different. I say Wren 98 not just for softer tail, but softer flex throughout. For end of the day tired legs, they'll just be a lot easier to ski and still have 85% of the top end stability when you're fresh.

[greasyslope]

That's a great piece of advice and, my sense is (that within the ON3P line) that the 98 is the true "center" of the hole in my quiver. Hopefully Powtron got some 98's in since we communicated last week.

I could easily convince myself that 108 creates enough separation between itself and my Billy Goats, GPOs and Quixotes. This would make sense if my home turf was Jackson or Alta, but the Colorado Front Range? Of course @skibass's 2 ski quiver for Jackson is Wren 98s and Billy Goats, so it's not as if there's a wrong answer.

I'm guessing that I'm not the only one who drools over skis based on conditions they wished they saw more of than what they actually experience. Why else do I currently own 3 pair in the 116-118 category and only an "obsolete" 102 along with a 109 rock ski (not counting a pair of Nanuqs mounted for touring).


Softer tail. I get it. Even Keith said he hated getting Freeride tails snagged in bumps. Sometimes, it's hard to control where you end up at the end of the day in low tide conditions. WTF was I thinking?

... Thom

I know you like to get uber granular, dissecting every last detail, so here's my .02.
I was is a similar boat, and I just picked up a pair of 98's. I think the last time I had such narrow boards was my last pair of Explosive's. I have also lived in the 115ish realm for a long time. The 98's are such a hoot! Like I said above, they are rally cars.
Now, it remains to be seen how they do in the inbetween conditions where I theoretically might want a 108. I do think that in an ideal world, I would have all 3, or maybe updating my BG's to a more modern edition would be a better solution?
Hopefully, you will get to test the 98's yourself, but my guess would be they are what you seek.

... Rich

[Gman]

Don't overlook the 88's for low-tide conditions.

I rocked the 88's for three days at Kirkwood last week and sadly it was the perfect ski.

[undertow2]

I do think that in an ideal world, I would have all 3, or maybe updating my BG's to a more modern edition would be ideal

... Rich

That is what I did...! Still waiting to get on my Supergoats, which replaced my 191s...

I had 2 diff versions of the Vicik and as much as I loved them the new Wrens are an absolute step above due to the profile/shape...



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[PowTron]

That is what I did...! Still waiting to get on my Supergoats, which replaced my 191s...

I had 2 diff versions of the Vicik and as much as I loved them the new Wrens are an absolute step above due to the profile/shape...



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Quiver Goals

[PowTron]

Hopefully Powtron got some 98's in since we communicated last week.

... Thom

There will be a pair at Loveland today [emoji106]

[TahoeJ]

I think the 108 is plenty different than the GPO, BG, and Q. In fact I think my Wren 112s are plenty different. I say Wren 98 not just for softer tail, but softer flex throughout. For end of the day tired legs, they'll just be a lot easier to ski and still have 85% of the top end stability when you're fresh.

This. If you haven't been on a sub 100 ski in a while, it can be a real wake-up call how much easier they are to ski. Especially the day after a big day when your legs are crushed. Get the 98's.

[CaliBrit]

Stoked you guys could swing a Sun Valley demo this year! I’ll be there.

[Aus George]

Anyone compared the Wren 98 with Moment's Tahoe 96? Looking for a daily driver down here in Australia (similar conditions to east coast US I guess), with probably 1 or 2 trips to the northern hemisphere in the future. Might even consider the 108 in that case, although maybe be better off just renting something fatter when travelling 🤔.

Hey dude I ski in Australia and my daily was the 106 Moment Belafonte (Tahoe, same ski). I now daily the 98 and 108 wren. I couldn't decide as I have always preferred fatter... Comparisons? I wanted something easier to ski in more varied conditions. The bella is great... For what it was designed for, straight and fast. Anything other than that and it lacks what other skis have as being more rounded. In my opinion ON3P is leagues ahead of Moment as they have a ski that is really good at many different things.

Dont even bother thinking about daily here with trips anywhere else, thats why it's called a 'quiver.' Buy a ski that is good for here then buy or rent a ski for there, the conditions are too different. I have billy goats for my trips, also if I have the space will be taking the 108 wrens, but probably will just be the goats. However, in saying that I skied my 106's for 2 whole seasons in Aus from the patchy season beginnings to the slushy spring conditions... 108 would be fine as a daily, just more work than it should be. When I was 25 I didn't care abut that, now I'm 32 and I want to make it easier for myself!

[Gman]

Anyone compared the Wren 98 with Moment's Tahoe 96? Looking for a daily driver down here in Australia (similar conditions to east coast US I guess), with probably 1 or 2 trips to the northern hemisphere in the future. Might even consider the 108 in that case, although maybe be better off just renting something fatter when travelling ��.

I've skied both but the tahoes I skied were a few seasons old so I'm not in tuned to what they've changed. What do you like about the tahoe? If memory serves me correct, it doesn't have the same flat kind of tail the wren has so it's going to release differently. I want to say the wren is a little stiffer but again its been a few seasons since I've skied the tahoe so I couldn't say for certain. Both are solid options, I've found my ON3P's to be super durable which is always a plus for me.

[galibier_numero_un]

First off, a great big thanks to Powtron and Grant for running such a well-oiled demo machine at Loveland yesterday. You guys are the best.

What did I learn? Well first off, my gimpy left knee shouldn’t be on re-frozen coral reef for a few more weeks (forever?), and secondly, demoing 102mm last boots when I’m used to 97mm lasts is a dumb idea (I gotta complete the ISO 5355 sole block mod to my XT-130 Freetours).

Given how much difficulty I was having in driving my left knee forward, I knew I wasn’t going to come away with anything definitive, but I did learn quite a bit.

Sub-100:

Everyone who said that sub-100 would be refreshing was right, but here’s the surprise (for me) – it was the Kartel 98 and not the Wren 98. Again, this was with a knee that was hurting so much that at the end of the day I fell on a groomer because I was wincing reflexively, in anticipation of driving forward on that leg.

The surprise to me was that the centered stance on the K-98’s didn’t feel back seat at all – just a slight pressure shift to mid-foot, and I adapted very easily. The tails hang up significantly less in the bumps than the flatter tailed Wren 98s. That shouldn’t come as a surprise to any of us.

The K-98s track pretty well in long arcing turns – giving up a bit (but not much) to the W-98’s. I wasn’t pushing the speed limit yesterday however (knee).

Meaty, meaty, big and bouncy:

The other surprise (given my expectations that I’d bond with a 98mm ski) was that I preferred the Wren 108’s over the 98’s, but not because the 108’s initiate more quickly. Their beef is just more confidence inspiring on balance. The beef also damped out the rattles in the fun snowpack we're currently experiencing.

I could see going either way with this, but what I noticed is that the overall energy input into both the 98 and the 108 skis is close to the same, but that it comes at a different point in the turn.

The W-108’s need a slight bit more input to get them started, but then they lock in and then you’re smilin’ through the middle and end of the turn. The 98’s initiate more quickly, but they need a bit more attention in the middle of the turn.

Powtron thinks I might like the 98’s with the 108’s beefier layup. I can see that. I can also see needing to revisit this on two healthy knees.

But not always …

This part gets tricky, due to snow and my knee, but I didn’t bond with the K108’s. I’d definitely need another day on them, and part of what I experienced was likely due to whoever had them out earlier in the day decided to detune the edges over rocks.

I almost didn't want to comment about them, because I was definitely having trouble pressuring my left ski by this time in the day, but my sense is that, if I were building a two-ski quiver (minus Billy Goats) would be a K-98 and a W-108.

About that Asym Thing:

@Betelgeuse take note: with Powtron’s help, I solved the asym. conundrum.

The key is to adopt a centered stance on hardpack (let ‘er rip in 3D snow). I took a pair of Billy’s out for one run to test out the theory and it took me all of a dozen turns to get it. Like with the Kartel 98’s I didn’t feel back seat at all … just centered. This technique translated well to a certain pair of skis originating from Incline Village as well. In retrospect, this makes sense.

Doesn’t everything make sense in retrospect?

... Thom

[Orthoski]

I rocked the 88's for three days at Kirkwood last week and sadly it was the perfect ski.

For those of us that live vicariously through this forum and ski out East, I have to place a plug for the Wren 88s as a perfect East coast ski. I demo'ed them last year and pulled the trigger - great on ice but they have the tip rocker that helps them blow through the thicker manmade snow that invariably exists on a couple trails or between the trees, super agile (I loved the 184 but ultimately got the 179s so I could take them through hard bumps more readily and they didn't give up much on stability, though the 184 were amazing through high speed turns - my other skis are all mid 180s), they have that super-stable damp feel of ON3P without sacrificing playfulness, the presence of a tail makes them better on hard conditions. Was very impressed over the past week when we had a foot of snow followed by a week of wind-blown -11 F conditions. In the past I always was drawn to aspirational skis, almost bought the Wren 98s, but I'm glad I listened to Will and and got the 88s (I have a pair of the old 110 Jeffreys for deeper days). Would encourage folks to consider the 88s for those firmer days, and especially those living out East. I had tried some of the narrower Blizzard offerings and I was never as drawn to the flipcore as I am to the camber under foot with tip rocker, and unlike a lot of tip rocker skis that then feel skittish and short, the ON3Ps maintain a stable, playful attitude and can arc out a turn even on icy conditions. It will be VERY hard to improve on this design. And for external validity, got a pair in 174 for my father-in-law who is in his 60s and he loves them, too.

[PowTron]

First off, a great big thanks to Powtron and Grant for running such a well-oiled demo machine at Loveland yesterday. You guys are the best.

What did I learn? Well first off, my gimpy left knee shouldn’t be on re-frozen coral reef for a few more weeks (forever?), and secondly, demoing 102mm last boots when I’m used to 97mm lasts is a dumb idea (I gotta complete the ISO 5355 sole block mod to my XT-130 Freetours).

Given how much difficulty I was having in driving my left knee forward, I knew I wasn’t going to come away with anything definitive, but I did learn quite a bit.

Sub-100:

Everyone who said that sub-100 would be refreshing was right, but here’s the surprise (for me) – it was the Kartel 98 and not the Wren 98. Again, this was with a knee that was hurting so much that at the end of the day I fell on a groomer because I was wincing reflexively, in anticipation of driving forward on that leg.

The surprise to me was that the centered stance on the K-98’s didn’t feel back seat at all – just a slight pressure shift to mid-foot, and I adapted very easily. The tails hang up significantly less in the bumps than the flatter tailed Wren 98s. That shouldn’t come as a surprise to any of us.

The K-98s track pretty well in long arcing turns – giving up a bit (but not much) to the W-98’s. I wasn’t pushing the speed limit yesterday however (knee).

Meaty, meaty, big and bouncy:

The other surprise (given my expectations that I’d bond with a 98mm ski) was that I preferred the Wren 108’s over the 98’s, but not because the 108’s initiate more quickly. Their beef is just more confidence inspiring on balance. The beef also damped out the rattles in the fun snowpack we're currently experiencing.

I could see going either way with this, but what I noticed is that the overall energy input into both the 98 and the 108 skis is close to the same, but that it comes at a different point in the turn.

The W-108’s need a slight bit more input to get them started, but then they lock in and then you’re smilin’ through the middle and end of the turn. The 98’s initiate more quickly, but they need a bit more attention in the middle of the turn.

Powtron thinks I might like the 98’s with the 108’s beefier layup. I can see that. I can also see needing to revisit this on two healthy knees.

But not always …

This part gets tricky, due to snow and my knee, but I didn’t bond with the K108’s. I’d definitely need another day on them, and part of what I experienced was likely due to whoever had them out earlier in the day decided to detune the edges over rocks.

I almost didn't want to comment about them, because I was definitely having trouble pressuring my left ski by this time in the day, but my sense is that, if I were building a two-ski quiver (minus Billy Goats) would be a K-98 and a W-108.

About that Asym Thing:

@Betelgeuse take note: with Powtron’s help, I solved the asym. conundrum.

The key is to adopt a centered stance on hardpack (let ‘er rip in 3D snow). I took a pair of Billy’s out for one run to test out the theory and it took me all of a dozen turns to get it. Like with the Kartel 98’s I didn’t feel back seat at all … just centered. This technique translated well to a certain pair of skis originating from Incline Village as well. In retrospect, this makes sense.

Doesn’t everything make sense in retrospect?

... Thom

All great feedback and thanks for coming out, Thom. Even on some horrid snow it's good to hear you can feel those differences in the designs.

Hope to get you out on some new sticks soon

[Pudge.]

Just picked me up some 184 Steeple 116s to go with some radical st 2’s. Went with Grizzlycorn top, was extremely saddened to learn there are no bases left

[PowTron]

Just picked me up some 184 Steeple 116s to go with some radical st 2’s. Went with Grizzlycorn top, was extremely saddened to learn there are no bases left

Thought you were going Veneer? [emoji6]

Thanks for grabbing that new pair (I think it made it snow, seriously).

[detrusor]

I wanted the bases for my supergoats too!


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[Pudge.]

I couldn't resist the majesty of the grizzly corn! Are new bases coming in any time soon?

[ExPowderSnob]

Hi people,

I am trying to replace a set of daily drivers and I am waffling between a 98 and 108 Wren. I mostly ski in the PNW ( Stevens Pass, Crystal, and Mt. Baker). If I am lucky, I get a few hours in the morning on pow days, but often it is left overs the day after. On real deep days, I have 194 Atomic Automatics at 117mm underfoot, so I think a more narrow ski may be smart.

I'm curious if anyone here as back to back skied the 98 and 108 Wrens, ( or even back to back on the Kartels?)

Or any other recommendation for the slightly heavier PNW snow we get..


I'm fat for a skier, 6ft, 225lbs.... if that helps..

[RudyGarmisch]

You’d be fine on the 108’s out here if your skiing has a charge setting. If you want something friendlier in trees and truly variable conditions, 98.

[RudyGarmisch]

Also finally made some long overdue changes to the quiver - very stoked for more Kingpins to deliver soon.

[nyskirat]

That's a pretty quiver.

Love the C&Ds

[Pudge.]

I think some the original 20 pillowfight graphics should be brought back, those are so much better than the one offered now

[Aus George]

I think some the original 20 pillowfight graphics should be brought back, those are so much better than the one offered now

The ones in last post are 10/10