Forest Roadless Rule Reversed

[Buster Highmen]

No sir, Sgt. Highman. I sit and smoke cigs, while drinking PBR, and spank your mother until her ass turns red.

On a seriious note, I went to all the Crystal Mt. expansion planning meetings and frankly got tired of listening to all the salamander masterbators.

If I want to jack off I'll just stay home and save the gas money, Thank you sir, may I have another.

So you are just a shallow, ignorant bitch. Pals with Tom huh?

[BanditXXX]

So you are just a shallow, ignorant bitch. Pals with Tom huh?

No sir, Sgt. Highman sir. I am smart enough not to get involved with your whore mother. She has herpes and smells bad. I am not that dumb, sir.

Sir, I am pals with Jimbo and all the other boyzzzz who shred the knarl.

Thank you sir , may I have another.

[Buster Highmen]

Troll, troll, troll your bloat
Gently down your cream
Verily verily verily verily
You really deserve a ream.

[BanditXXX]

Troll, troll, troll your bloat
Gently down your cream
Verily verily verily verily
You really deserve a ream.

You and your drivel, dravel. "Open Kempers" Whine, whine. Can I get some cheese with that whine?

Jesus H., pal, isn't there enough backcountry for you and your misfits.

"They feed pigs, but they slaughter hogs".-Jimmy Hoffa

[Buster Highmen]

You and your drivel, dravel. "Open Kempers" Whine, whine. Can I get some cheese with that whine?

Jesus H., pal, isn't there enough backcountry for you and your misfits.

"They feed pigs, but they slaughter hogs".-Jimmy Hoffa

Well, at least we've been able to reduce the exchange from something that might have some content to the meaningless drivel and turd slinging which may strain our conceptual continuuae. Bitch.

[Greydon Clark]

While it is unlikely that mouth-breathers like Bandit XXX will see the light and suddenly acquire the ability to think rationally about land management, the underlying premise of his blather needs to be addressed.

It is also important to remember that the roadless rule only applies to parcels of land, 5,000 acres or more, which have not been logged or roaded. This is approximately 50 million acres across 38 states (58 million if you include the Tongass). Why after a 100 years of logging and mining is a 1/3 of the national forest system still intact?

Well, National Forests do not exist solely to produce timber and provide a venue for our collective radness. They also provide a home for little fury creatures, salamanders, butterflies, and wildflower, which need intact habitat—not isolated islands of wilderness—to survive. That is why national forests were managed (until GW came to town) to maintain viable wildlife populations. In addition, our national forests play an important role in protecting the cleanliness of our drinking water. For instance, the city of Sacramento’s water comes from a roadless watershed.

If anyone is actually interested in seeing where the inventoried roadless areas are, http://roadless.fs.fed.us/maps/usmap2.shtml.

On the hedonistic tip, skiing through old growth rules. Second growth is okay, and third growth sucks donkey balls. Mountain biking on logging roads sucks, so why should we build more of them? I like signal track.

[Buster Highmen]

And there you go Greydon, ruining all my hard work and injecting some sense, facts and a well thought out statement.

Sheesh, what's TGR coming to?

[P_McPoser]

Local Impacts should equal Local Decisions.
/ducks

[cj001f]

Local Impacts should equal Local Decisions.
/ducks

That's fine - if Locals foot the bill. As it stands some of the 'local management' plans look alot like welfare - spending someone elses money and they'll always bail you out if you fuck it up.

[iceman]

Local Impacts should equal Local Decisions.
/ducks

I totally agree. This issue is a local United States issue, no other country should get involved.

[Buster Highmen]

I totally agree. This issue is a local United States issue, no other country should get involved.

I dunno, I think Oregon sucks.

[cj001f]

I dunno, I think Oregon sucks.

another State of Jefferson supporter

[Telenater]

another State of Jefferson supporter

Don't forget the portion of N. Cal that want's to be a part of the State of Jefferson.

[Donkey Punch]

BIG FUCKING DEAL.
trees grow back. clearcuts are always reseeded. mine tailing piles make wicked gap jumps.
around here stupid hippies turn into stupid yuppies and instead of getting high they get anal retentive and file lawsuits about protecting wilderness areas they've NEVER EVEN BEEN TO. latest one was "DON"T SALVAGE LOG THE BURN AREA"
???????????????????????? idiots.

Holly balls some one else on here sees things that way to! I thought I was the only one. I am constantly amazed by how people will just jump on a band wagon for one reason and never question any of it. They just follow blindly into the fog.

[SherpaStyle]

Holly balls some one else on here sees things that way to! I thought I was the only one. I am constantly amazed by how people will just jump on a band wagon for one reason and never question any of it. They just follow blindly into the fog.

That my friends is one intelligent statement. You're right...conservation has gone mainstream. Natural resources are renewable, so what's the big deal? Clear cut the forests, kill the animals, melt the glaciers. All these years I've been folowing blindly through the fog...oh wait, thats smog.

[BLOOD SWEAT STEEL]

[summit]

iirc this isnt the first time that banditXXX has gotten all PMS

on a side not it is nuking outside

[BLOOD SWEAT STEEL]

I am tired of taxpayer-subsidized logging of our forests and old growth to benefit the timber industry. How much money has the FS lost (or "misplaced") from timber sales?

Sorry, I'm with the hippie on this one.

And reluctantly (regardless of their motivatons in this instance,) also with the ninth circus. Local problems should be dealt with locally. When the taxpayer in Ohio is paying the salary of the ranger in Los Angeles, it's anything but local.

[P_McPoser]

^^^Fucking hillarious
edit--the animated gif

[P_McPoser]

When the taxpayer in Ohio is paying the salary of the ranger in Los Angeles, it's anything but local.

Which is another problem.

[Chainsaw_Willie]

[begin rambling stream of consciousness writing about wilderness, roadless areas, and tree farms fueled by massive doses of caffeine and lack of sleep]

From the main East-West street through the town of North Bend, WA, take Ballarat road North. The arterial changes direction and name several times, but if you stay on it you will reach the North Fork Snoqualmie River county road in about ten minutes. This road quickly climbs into a huge tree farm that stretches from just North of North Bend and I-90 to just south of the city of Monroe and US-2, and from the edge of the Mt. Baker-Snoqualmie National Forest on the East to the outskirts of the towns of Snoqualmie, Carnation, Stillwater, and Duval to the west. This tree farm encompasses well over a hundred square miles of lowland forest and is criss-crossed by a mind-boggling network of roads. It contains dozens of lakes, a major stretch of the N. Fork Snoqualmie, and almost all of the Tolt rivers. The tree farm was owned by Weyerhauser until about 5 or 6 years ago when it was sold. Initially it was feared that this vast stretch of land would fall into the hands of private developers and become more suburbs and McMansions for the burgeoning Western WA population.

One group of activists put together a plan to issue bonds to purchase the land. The bonds would be repayed by continuing to operate the land as a tree farm for the next 50 years. After the bonds are repayed logging operations would cease, the roads would be decommissioned and the land allowed to return to a wilder, more natural state. I personally thought this was a great idea, and it may still happen. The land was purchased by another timber company from back East before the grassroots organization attempting to raise the bond money could be effective. At least this land is not being cleared and covered with tract developments.

Despite the fact that it is a tree farm, contains a jigsaw puzzle patchwork of clearcuts and mono-culture stands of various ages, it's still a pretty cool place to visit. Several of the lakes have excellent fishing as do the N. Fork Snoqualmie and Tolt rivers. It supports a healthy population of bears, deer, and smaller animals (I've seen more rabbits there than anywhere else near Puget Sound). The best part about it is that it offers easy access to some rarely visited areas of the Alpine Lakes Wilderness, which in places borders this tree farm. While the roads built by the timber company that branch off the county road are mostly gated, you can easily ride your mountain bike up them to get to the wilderness boundary.

The contrast between the tree farm and Wilderness is striking. A sharp line that runs over ridges and through valleys and is easily discernable as a sudden change in the forest. On the tree farm side all the trees are densely packed together, all the same species and all the same age. On the Wilderness side they are what one would expect from a Wilderness area in a low elevation temperate forest - old growth of different species, different ages, much larger trees in general and not as closely packed together.

We need areas like this tree farm to supply the wood for modern living. The idea that it would get sold to developers and turned into tract housing is scary. That puts the pressure to harvest trees elsewhere, in less sustainable areas and previously undisturbed ecosystems. Areas similar to the Alpine Lakes Wilderness that, while not officially designated Wilderness are nonetheless still in a natural state. The lower elevations of Western WA are prime tree growing habitat. Ample rainfall, mild climate, long growing seasons. The trees grow fast here and are ready for harvest within 50 years. If we need tree farms to supply wood, then that is a great place for them.

If we lose these tree farms then we get what is seen in the Mt. Baker-Snoqualmie Nat. Forest along the I-90 corridor and in the Gifford-Pinchot Nat. Forest surrounding Mt. Rainier - huge clearcut areas interspersed with incongruous, isolated stands of uncut trees.

The point I'm trying to make here is that tree farms are not necessarily evil, they are something we need and they can sustain wildlife and provide recreation. But, they are not a forest, not by a long shot. The people saying that trees grow back are missing the point. What doesn't recover as easily is the biodiversity that made up the original forest, or the recreational opportunities that existed there previously. Logging ruins the land for recreational use for at least 30 years, the time it takes for the trees to get large enough so that you have some chance of walking between them without a struggle, unless all you want to do is cruise along the roads built through them, hunting rabbit or grouse. Roads also invite abuse of the area by knuckle-dragging neanderthals. All roads in Nat. Forest seem to do is attract people who throw garbage out the windows of their SUVs and don't understand that burying the pile of shit they left 20 feet from their camp fire might be a good idea. I have found used diapers and syringes (at the same place, no less), broken glass, and all manner of discarded non-biodegradable crap at the beaten-in camp spots that inevitably appear along forest roads. The fact that these roads were built as a subsidy to private industry just adds further insult to injury.

The fact that there is only 5% or 10% or whatever is the accepted percentage of old growth left should be a clarion call for preserving that tiny percentage of the land. I'm not for designating it all as wilderness, that puts too many restrictions on useage, but it certainly seems that it can be left uncut and without roads built through it. After all, who's going to benefit by building roads? Roads for which the only purpose is providing access to the trees. Roads that cost taxpayer money to build so that a private timber company can harvest and profit from trees that belong to every citizen of this country. Who wants to go play in a clearcut? Who's willing to wait 30 years for the land to recover before it's good for anything again?

Frankly, if having roadless areas means there's more area for me to hike, bike, and ski in away from the crowds of dipshit knuckledraggers then I'm all for them. "Build it and they will come."

[end rambling stream of consciousness writing about wilderness, roadless areas, and tree farms fueled by massive doses of caffeine and lack of sleep]

[eastwest]

shows blatant disregard for the concerns of the public

That's bullshit. My concern stems from not being able to access the forest.

[rideit]

That's bullshit. My concern stems from not being able to access the forest.

How in the fuck have you been denied access to the forest?

Lazy fuck....

[Donkey Punch]

So everyone in America should just send a bunch of money to the sierra club and green POS, because they talk about one issue that sounds good to the public? Save the owls, and while your at it we will spend all of that money on whatever else we want. Its the same crap that politicians pull, come up with a bill that everyone can support and then slip in a bunch of crap that no one knows is there.
I think we can all agree that there are some areas that need to be protected and preserved, and that there are certain things that suck ass about both the Bush Admin, and especially eco nazi parties.
And how do we get future generations to give a fuck about the environment and protecting it if they can not access it? Roads give people easy access, sure they could hike in but not that many people are harcore like that. And if no one can get in to see how beautiful everything can be then why would they care about saving it?
As for old growth timber, it should be protected with out a doubt. However there is huge demand for it. Rich people have discovered how different old growth timber is from younger wood, thus they want it. Now because of that demand old growth is in danger. What I really don't understand is why there are not more companies that strip old barns and so forth and refinish the lumber, its already there and dead we may as well try to reuse it.

[bdog]

And how do we get future generations to give a fuck about the environment and protecting it if they can not access it?

Nobody is preventing YOU or anyone else access to the forest by maintaining roadless areas. Preservation of those diverse ecologies is essential to the life of the forest and there is far more National Forest, National Park and State controlled land that is not under the Roadless act. The following presents a better explanation:

The National Forest System shelters the remaining 58.5 million acres of inventoried roadless areas. These last wild forests protect our water, sustain our wildlife and guarantee that current and future generations will have access to some of America's most pristine outdoor playgrounds.

Now, more than ever, these wild, roadless forests need the help of those who enjoy them most, outdoor recreation enthusiasts and the businesses they support.

Endless Recreational Opportunities
Hiking and Climbing
The Appalachian, Continental Divide and Pacific Crest National Scenic Trails are among the hundreds of thousands of trails that traverse our roadless national forests. The Condrey Mountain Roadless Area in the Klamath National Forest of Northern California consists of 20,000 acres of sub-alpine meadows and diverse conifer forests. Condrey Mountain is an ecological wonderland anyone can enjoy by hiking the 12 miles of the Pacific Crest Trail, which wind through this wild forest.

The Vedauwoo Roadless Area in the Medicine Bow National Forest encompasses a maze of ancient granite formations, towering cliffs and rock pedestals, at the southern tail of Wyoming's rugged Sherman Mountains. These spectacular rock types create the ideal conditions for rock climbing and bouldering while also providing highly sought solitude. Since many roadless areas can be found at higher elevations, ice climbing has become a popular activity in national forests during the winter.

Kayaking and Fishing
Wild, roadless forests shelter our best sources of clean water, providing drinking water for millions of Americans while sustaining our most vigorous runs of salmon and steelhead. Our national forests, particularly wild roadless areas, also shield streams for recreational anglers and paddling enthusiasts. The Kern River, renowned for its world-class whitewater, cascades through thousands of acres of roadless forests in California's Sequoia National Forest and serves as a vigorous training course for U.S. Olympic kayakers.


Mountain Biking
Serious mountain bikers prefer singletrack trails that traverse pristine landscapes and there is no shortage of either of these in roadless areas.
Take the Hermosa roadless area in the San Juan National Forest, CO as just one of many examples. These 70,000 acres of recreational wonderland have become very popular in recent years because of its ample singletrack trails and unspoiled scenery, just a few benefits of protecting roadless areas.