Tammy Wynette cannot be reached for help-Divorce advice

[Bunion 2020]

^^^ Wow! We agree..... Blue moon?

[AdironRider]

Heh, a broken clock is right twice a day after all.

[fastfred]

kevo

here is my two cents
have a buddy I grew up with he was a life long bachelor, dated though, and he has done very well for himself financially
along comes some girl and they get married, she's got health issues and all kinds of stuff
the bummer part was his parents would stay at his house for a month or two every winter and I'd crash there for at least a week

we are no longer welcome to stay at his house, the parents part is tough
his mother and sister showed up a year ago at his house with notice and stayed there to see what was going on because no one really knew who this girl was and his life had changed
unfortunately I did not get the low down and his mother passed a few months after the visit
I pray that he got a prenup because his finances are very plush

as far as your brother my advice:
don't give him any advice unless he asks for it
if you are offering money to help him its a gift not a loan tell him you will provide him money and leave it at that don't mention it again
offer the plane ticket, he heard you, it's up to him to take you up on it
all you can do is listen and agree with him even though you may disagree with what he says

poor guy is probably maxed out on credit cards and in a financial mess she drained him and now that he has nothing left she needs to move on

[Kevo]

poor guy is probably maxed out on credit cards and in a financial mess she drained him and now that he has nothing left she needs to move on

Your wisdom knows no bounds.

This is exactly what he told me. Every credit card he has is maxed from trying to maintain some insane lifestyle for his wife and kids, all while she doesn't work. High end private schools, high end summer camps, high end medical specialists and presumably high end quacks for whatever mystery conditions his wife has or claims to have.

We didn't get into it but he's definitely been paying at least 10% pre tax to some evangelical church throughout his entire marriage as well.

He said he tried to set a boundary/ budget around his wife's spending and she accused him of financial abuse, told his daughter that he didn't care about his wife getting better from her "illness" and then kicked him out.

[Yonder_River]

I don't know. Being that shitty to your family, particularly your parents, when they did nothing to deserve it is pretty low. It would be very hard for me to forgive things like not showing up when they're sick regardless of how supposedly influential his wife was. Not even a secret text. To me that resides within the person and can't just be blamed on a third party.

[tgapp]

I don't know. Being that shitty to your family, particularly your parents, when they did nothing to deserve it is pretty low. It would be very hard for me to forgive things like not showing up when they're sick regardless of how supposedly influential his wife was. Not even a secret text. To me that resides within the person and can't just be blamed on a third party.

Man Kevo that's a tough read.

And I gotta say, I almost agree with Yonder River

There are family therapists that specialize in reconciliation; if your brother is sincere I would maybe consider identifying and using one such specialist. This is far too messy (with far too many details) for mags I reckon.

Best of luck to all.


----

And lowsparkco, I agree completely. Very well articulated. The mourning part still kinda sucks tho.

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk

[Meadow Skipper]

Jesus Kevo, that’s a rough deal. Wish I had some useful advice for you.

[Supermoon]

Vibes Kevo. That’s an awful situation. Alienating a spouse from their family is a classic abuser move as it makes the victim more reliant on the abuser. Hard to know why he did what he did during those years, but if he wants to reconnect I’m sure it will help him in the long run.

[lowsparkco]

I've watched a spouse drive a wedge in a family with one of my close friends. I always really felt for the husband, on one side you have "happy wife happy life" and I can understand having to set some boundaries with your first family, but not reaching out during an illness is tough. On some level I think you have to ask yourself, what kind of person tries to isolate their partner from their support? Especially in a time of need.

My $.02 - maybe worth less - encourage him to bust his ass and take his medicine. Keep the good parts of your life going, steady income especially, and file bankruptcy if necessary. Try and move past all the trauma with the wife and focus on the kid. Unfortunately there's a damn good chance she'll turn out like her mom as that's her role model, but there's always a chance she'll flip a switch and see the light. He should be there if she does. All we can do is provide the leadership of doing what's right even if it's the hardest thing to do. Sometimes that's simply talking your medicine. Although she may have influenced him, ultimately he made the decisions, to turn a cold shoulder on his parents, to run up debt, - once he takes responsibility and rights those two ships a big burden will fall off of his shoulders. As for you, I'd stay the fuck out of a lot of it, especially between your parents and him. You can't control if they forgive him, or if he asks for their forgiveness genuinely, or any of it. Focus on your relationship with each of them separately trying to give them what they really need, which isn't always what they're asking for.

[skiJ]

I've watched a spouse drive a wedge in a family with one of my close friends. I always really felt for the husband, on one side you have "happy wife happy life" and I can understand having to set some boundaries with your first family, but not reaching out during an illness is tough. On some level I think you have to ask yourself, what kind of person tries to isolate their partner from their support? Especially in a time of need.

My $.02 - maybe worth less - encourage him to bust his ass and take his medicine. Keep the good parts of your life going, steady income especially, and file bankruptcy if necessary. Try and move past all the trauma with the wife and focus on the kid. Unfortunately there's a damn good chance she'll turn out like her mom as that's her role model, but there's always a chance she'll flip a switch and see the light. He should be there if she does. All we can do is provide the leadership of doing what's right even if it's the hardest thing to do. Sometimes that's simply talking your medicine. Although she may have influenced him, ultimately he made the decisions, to turn a cold shoulder on his parents, to run up debt, - once he takes responsibility and rights those two ships a big burden will fall off of his shoulders. As for you, I'd stay the fuck out of a lot of it, especially between your parents and him. You can't control if they forgive him, or if he asks for their forgiveness genuinely, or any of it. Focus on your relationship with each of them separately trying to give them what they really need, which isn't always what they're asking for.

you have a lot of Good information, and Good advice here, lowspark -

the brother,,, forgiveness is one thing - I would not forget that when a parent was extremely ill, he was unavailable - And

now that his marriage is ending and he is drowning in debt, he wants to 'reconcile' with his parents (? ??)
I would be taking steps to assure this does not become a bail-out that creates financial hardship for the parents...

it happens.

I believe the brother needs to get his life and his affairs in-order - After That

IF the parents want to receive him, give them that decision.

( I would believe If the brother is now on-his-own, he can write to his parents - starting with an apology. )


regarding the brother, until one has seen the effect of spousal abuse first-hand, it is hard to imagine just how wicked those situations can become - BUT

at this point, my priority is protecting the parents. sadly.


peace. skiJ

[MakersTeleMark]

Bankruptcy is probably the best advice given in this situation. Especially right before an upcoming divorce. Let him start fresh on all fronts.

[lowsparkco]

Bankruptcy is probably the best advice given in this situation. Especially right before an upcoming divorce. Let him start fresh on all fronts.

It’s so stigmatized and maybe you can argue rightfully so, but in a case like this could be a lifesaver.

SkiJ - great points. We can sometimes try so hard to take the high road that we don’t listen to our heart. The heart knows. Having some scar tissue is to be expected. Hopefully everyone can move forward in a way that offers some opportunity to heal.

[Kevo]

Thanks, everyone.

I talked to my brother again today and also talked to my childhood best friend. My brother is two years older and my best friend is directly in between us in age. My best friend knew my brother well before my brother dropped off the radar after getting married.

My brother told me that he had been suicidal over the summer- apparently he was at home while his wife took the kids to her dad's vacation house two states away on a solo parent vacation in the midst of marital strife. My brother was looking at his life insurance policy as a way out for his family, but said he ultimately realized that if he weren't around the kids would be that much worse off.

In relaying this info to my childhood best friend in hopes of advice, his take was "and what the fuck happens if he loses access to the kids? If he isn't legally allowed to be in his kids' lives, what does he have to live for?" He then mentioned to maybe consider gifting attorney fees to try to secure parental rights.

When I talked to my brother today, he was surprisingly chipper. He had some story about having a great phone conversation with his wife last night during which he took responsibility and owned up to all of his (perceived) shortcomings in his relationship with his wife and kids. His wife later texted him something positive, which gave him hope of reconciliation.

He's still not living with his wife and kids and he might not be for "several weeks or months". I again tried to express concern for his well being. I had him text me the contact info of the guy he is staying with and also the contact info his college roommate who he still keeps in contact with in case I need to get in touch with them in a crisis where he goes dark and stops responding to me.

I also tried to level with him and take a neutral tone without outright accusing his wife of wrongdoing. In summary, he is extrajudicially being denied access to his children and is being fed hope in exchange for admitting fault over the phone. I am not a lawyer, but perhaps it is possible that his not being with his children could be used to construct a narrative about him being unsafe around the kids. Is willingly abdicating parental responsibilities by not sleeping in the same house also potentially abdicating his parental rights as well? If I were in his situation I would retain a lawyer in order to take steps retain and protect his parental rights. He lives in a one party state for audio recording, so he should be aware of that when being led down a path of verbal prostration and "owning up to his faults" in exchange for hope of seeing the kids when he talks to his wife on the phone.

I also asked him if he knows what the kids' understanding is of the situation. What are they being told about why he isn't allowed to live with them? I think that maybe got some wheels turning in his head.

There was no mention today about my parents or reconciliation with them, probably because he is currently looped back into his wife's orbit with the hope from her text last night.

I asked if texts to his phone are monitored by his wife an got a strange response- "not right now". He told me to send him texts to a different app that has an additional password on it, but it makes me wonder how many times I reached out to him and didn't get through because his wife was looking at and maybe deleting texts.

A few people here have mentioned not trying to settle things between my brother and my parents. I agree. I spent two or three years as a messenger and arbiter between my parents and my brother before they stopped talking. It was really unhealthy for me. I definitely won't go down that path again.

[frorider]

Your brother is lucky to have you looking out for his interests here.

[yeahman]

Kevo, I think there is a lot of nuance to your scenario that is not going to solicit the most accurate advice, which is the nature of the internet I suppose, but I will say that I think the reward is worth the risk for your brother and parents to attempt to reconcile.

I disagree. His parents made the right decision to cut the selfish asshole out of their life years ago. Kevo should have done the same and still should. His brother is now getting exactly what he deserves in what sounds like a messy and punishing divorce. He is a bad person, based on his behavior toward his family, and will not change, even though he might come crawling back because he needs something. (probably money)

[byates1]

^ cold. But not wrong. What guy would let a bitch cut him off from his god damned parents. Throw that bitch off a balcony.

[MakersTeleMark]

Pretty hard to really know what is going on from a 3rd party post on TRG don't you think?

[Supermoon]

He's potentially the victim of some protracted emotional abuse and manipulation, so I think blaming the victim here isn't the most appropriate thing. It's up to Kevo and his family if they want to reconcile, but I'm not going to assume to know what his brother should or should not have done.

[byates1]

Pretty hard to really know what is going on from a 3rd party post on TRG don't you think?

I've got an ironclad grasp of the hypothetical.

[yeahman]

He's potentially the victim of some protracted emotional abuse and manipulation, so I think blaming the victim here isn't the most appropriate thing. It's up to Kevo and his family if they want to reconcile, but I'm not going to assume to know what his brother should or should not have done.

He's an adult. Whatever happened, he allowed it to happen. His parents are the real victims here.

[Danno]

He's potentially the victim of some protracted emotional abuse and manipulation, so I think blaming the victim here isn't the most appropriate thing. It's up to Kevo and his family if they want to reconcile, but I'm not going to assume to know what his brother should or should not have done.

This.

He's an adult. Whatever happened, he allowed it to happen. His parents are the real victims here.

That ignores the entire concept of what abuse can do to a person. What he did was shitty, no doubt there, but I'll reserve judgement on him.

[RootSkier]

Kevin and I have probably never agreed on a single thing on this here t g arzzzz but dude, I wish you and your family the best. What a nightmare.

[oftpiste]

PLEASE< PLEASE PLEASE get him an attorney. And he's lucky to have you and good on ya for showing up in the face of previous dismissal. Well done.

[Kevo]

For the record, my parents made some mistakes and overstepped boundaries with my brother and his wife during the early part of their marriage.

In my opinion, my brother and sister in law (maybe soon to be ex SIL?) over reacted to my mom overstepping boundaries. My dad then amplified his reaction in defense of my mom and pushed on some religious buttons, pointing out problems in the evangelical religion that my brother and his wife were practicing, etc.

That lead to a nuclear explosion in the relationship between my parents and my brother and sister in law. My brother chose to double down on religion and as best I can tell had some accountabilibuddy bible study mentors convince him through scripture that he needed to drop my parents to save his marriage.

I'm not sure I'd label any particular party as victim/ perpetrator. It was all a fucking mess. A few parts "trouble adjusting from adult/ child relationship to adult/ adult relationship", several parts unfettered evangelical Christianity from my brother and sister in law and what I'd guess is some serious vindictiveness on the part of my sister in law.

[MakersTeleMark]

America, Fuck Yeah!