Tammy Wynette cannot be reached for help-Divorce advice

[~mikey b]

that’s all that matters

[ghwbuush]

Where ever your daughter lives, show up for her, constantly even if she pretends she doesn't want you to.

Offer to take her to do whatever you do together, offer to take her to dinner or lunch or the movies even if she won't go, keep making the effort.

Show up to her sports, music or whatever it is she does as much as is possible.

She will appreciate the effort even if she won't admit it now.

Let her live with her mom if she wants, but I wouldn't give her full custody if you can avoid it.

[liv2ski]

That ^°^^

[skiJ]

Where ever your daughter lives, show up for her, constantly even if she pretends she doesn't want you to.

Offer to take her to do whatever you do together, offer to take her to dinner or lunch or the movies even if she won't go, keep making the effort.

Show up to her sports, music or whatever it is she does as much as is possible.

She will appreciate the effort even if she won't admit it now.

Let her live with her mom if she wants, but I wouldn't give her full custody if you can avoid it.

+2

maintain your Right - and your responsibility.

in less than a year, your daughter could file for emancipation ( her independence ).

Be her Dad - Be there for her.

Good luck with a bad situation.


skiJ

[Mustonen]

Teenage girls are fickle. Gotta roll with those punches and stay steady.

Being a divorced parent is tough for lots of reasons, but one of them is that they’ve got somewhere else to go that you can’t really argue with and that becomes leverage for every battle. Really makes you pick your fights.

What I’ve found is that it all comes and goes, at least with my kids. There will be periods of time where they’re all about dad and only want to spend time with me or be at my house. During those times I remind myself to not take it for granted and enjoy it for what it is and encourage them to make sure they spend time with their mom too. And then there will be periods of time where they want to be with their mom, and I’ll remind myself to not force anything and if I’m patient and available and supportive and positive they’ll eventually come back around, be it next week or next month or next year or longer.

Take it as it comes. You’re still in prime dad-taxi season. Take advantage of all those little moments of quick connection and don’t worry about your ego. It’s all over so quick.

I’m playing the long game. I’ve seen it with my siblings and I’m starting to see it with my kids, where you realize all that really matters is whether they’ll want to visit you and talk to you a couple times a year for the next five or six decades and associate you and your household with positive feelings. Depressing, maybe, but that’s what life is.

[Core Shot]

Assuming your ex is sensible, just offer to let your daughter spend more time without legal costs or court hassle. Full custody will cost you more child support. So she does have some financial incentive. Maybe offer some extra money (documented not cash) to help with groceries. Communicate via text or email and save the messages. Might be useful in court or to send to your daughter someday.

Good luck. And agree with everything said about teenage girls and trying to love and support them and yet wanting time with them. I can’t imagine divorce and not being with my kids.

[schuss]

Assuming your ex is sensible, just offer to let your daughter spend more time without legal costs or court hassle. Full custody will cost you more child support. So she does have some financial incentive. Maybe offer some extra money (documented not cash) to help with groceries. Communicate via text or email and save the messages. Might be useful in court or to send to your daughter someday.

Good luck. And agree with everything said about teenage girls and trying to love and support them and yet wanting time with them. I can’t imagine divorce and not being with my kids.

This. No need to go full official on it if you have an amicable relationship with ex-spouse. I'd also talk with her as Mom gets a say in it too.

[wkd-rdr]

Appreciate the thoughts very much. I do plan on continuing to be there for her events, and taking her on ski trips.

This arrangement stemmed from a very intense sport schedule for my daughter (5 or 6 nights per week). I have trouble working and getting her everywhere in a timely manner.

It's easier to carpool from moms as she is closer to school and can get rides with friends (I'm about 10 miles away, vs 3 miles at her moms) .
So, yes, staying at moms more would make her life (and mine) easier.

This. No need to go full official on it if you have an amicable relationship with ex-spouse. I'd also talk with her as Mom gets a say in it too.

Her mom is insistent that we go to court to get a clear parenting arrangement, which includes custody. I dont like signing her away, especially as her mom lives with a guy I barely know. I'm ok with managing it in an unofficial manner to do what's best, her mom is not.
At 15 and a half, do we even need to go through the courts?

[MagnificentUnicorn]

To be clear, the ex wants full custody with scheduled visitation? What’s the current situation with child support? There’s nothing wrong with amending a parenting plan if you have concerns, it can protect you too.

You could agree to having your daughter living with your ex full time with unrestricted visitation and no increase in child support and put that in the amended parenting plan. Sometimes winging it works out but it could also work against you.


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[Supermoon]

This may be a thing you should talk to a lawyer about, even to just understand exactly what your options are and potential impacts of different decisions

[Mustonen]

You don’t have to go to court to do anything. I would tell her to sod off, and if it’s a court order she wants you’ll argue to maintain the status quo. Schedules change, and there should be a general agreement that you guys will adjust when needed for everybody’s convenience, with your daughter’s quality of life being the overwhelming impetus.

And in many states the child support is fairly uncoupled from any other agreement, as it is something that can be revisited ongoing. You can both agree, and have it signed by a judge even, that you won’t increase child support, and next month or next year she can submit for a child support review and have it increased based on parenting time without any other term of the original agreement being altered. That’s a common trap.

[Core Shot]

If she wants court then you fight to keep joint custody.
Explain to your daughter that it’s on principle. She’s your daughter and you’re not letting go of her.
If she stays at moms more than the court order that’s because you’re being kind and respect your daughter.

I’m no divorce attorney. But it would be shocking if there is caselaw that allowing one parent more time outside of the court ordered time would change the judgment or alter legal obligations. I’m sure there is. Say you had joint custody and fled the country or were put in jail. Yeah. But just allowing a few extra nights and or weeks out of kindness shouldn’t change anything if you’re not an angry ex or a legal thief.

Document everything. Express kindness and concern in writing. And save that. Sounds like a sucky situation. A normal mom would just be happy to get extra time with her daughter. But that’s not enough. She needs legal validation.

[Mustonen]

Also, at 15.5 the end is in sight. You’ll spend 6 months arguing over something that is in effect for another 2.5 years. And that’s being generous. Once the kid has wheels and a job all bets are sort of off in re: any kind of parenting time. Just try telling a 17-18yo girl who has an income how exactly she’s going to spend her weekend. Even if you win you’ll lose more than you think you gained.

In my experience, anything you imagine as “parenting time” is over for you in 6-12 months. They’ll sleep at your house, and take up space in your living room from time to time. They’ll eat your food and let you take them on vacations if you’re lucky. But the relationship changes pretty profoundly. It’s fine. It’s what it is.

[riser4]

Custody percentage changes monetary support level?

[Mustonen]

Custody percentage changes monetary support level?

How did you think it worked??

[TahoeJ]

Your ex just wants the money. Going to court over a 15 year old is fucking ridiculous. My daughter turns 15 in a few weeks and is basically on her own program like most high schoolers, and frankly she spends most of her free time out with friends anyway. I live much closer to her school so sometimes she's at my place way more than stated in custody. Other times she'll end up at mom's house a lot more. But if either of us tried to make this a custody shift (if anything it would be in my favor) I'm pretty sure we'd both lose our shit over it.

Now, to be fair if your daughter is at mom's substantially more she's going to be spending more on food and stuff like that, just say you're happy to pick up those random expenses here and there (hair products, etc.) and keep it simple and don't pay any more money to bloodsucking lawyers.

[Meadow Skipper]

@wkd-rdr: Why would you agree to give up joint custody? From what I’ve read here I don’t see any advantage, or even fairness to you.

If you want to give your ex more money because you think that’s fair, go ahead. But I wouldn’t give up joint custody unless there was a really good reason. Possibly avoiding a legal battle doesn’t seem like a good reason to me.

[Danno]

This may be a thing you should talk to a lawyer about, even to just understand exactly what your options are and potential impacts of different decisions

This. Everyone's advice here is all well and good, but you also need to be talking to a lawyer to understand the legal ramifications of the various options.

wkd-rdr, you're in the front range, right? If you need to find a good family lawyer, happy to help find you one.

[anotherVTskibum]

This. Everyone's advice here is all well and good, but you also need to be talking to a lawyer to understand the legal ramifications of the various options.

wkd-rdr, you're in the front range, right? If you need to find a good family lawyer, happy to help find you one.

Seconded.

Jurisdiction matters a lot, too; in Maine, for support calculations, it only matters if you're the "primary care provider" or not; if both parties provide "substantially equal" care, the parent with less income is deemed the primary provider. Whether I have my kids 0 nights a week or 3.5, I'm still paying the same amount. (That's based on the text on the form; obviously, if you actually needed to understand the details, you should go back to the "talk to a lawyer" bit above).

Beyond that, I currently have my kids zero nights but am supposed to have them now as it is more developmentally appropriate (they're currently 2 and 3) per the parenting plan, but I still have equal rights and responsibilities in terms of major decisions. To my mind, that's the more important bit--hopefully it never comes to that, as my ex and I have been getting along pretty well as far as taking care of the kids goes, but if I felt that she was pushing for something that wasn't in the kids best interests, I have a legal say on the matter.

[ghwbuush]

Talk to a lawyer.

Maybe the new custody agreement could be that your daughter chooses what hine she stays in and support stay the same with maybe some sort of extra to cover groceries and stuff if you're counting pennies thst closely.

Its ridiculous to force a teenager to live where they dont want to or where its more difficult just because.

[MakersTeleMark]

Don't forget that in Colorado emancipation for purposes of child support is 19. Tell her she can stay wherever she wants, but don't fuck with your parenting plan and decision making formally.

[TahoeJ]

I would attempt a rational conversation with her before wasting any more money on lawyers. No offense to those in this thread, but lawyers always say you should go see a lawyer.

[Danno]

before wasting any more money on lawyers. No offense to those in this thread, but lawyers always say you should go see a lawyer.

Why do you think lawyers always say you should go see a lawyer? Hint: it's not because it's a waste of money.

There's a lot of shit at stake here, and walking into a negotiation with the ex over something as fraught as custody without knowing what the law might say seems crazy to me. I'm not a family law attorney, and I sure as fuck had a family law attorney on speed dial during my non-lawyered-up divorce.

ETA: I should add that I took very little of the advice given to me. But I went into negotiations with my eyes fully open to the legal and financial and parenting risks I was taking.

[XXX-er]

Not even remotley a lawyer but I would think if this ever got before a judge there would need to be a compelling reason for his/ her honor to suddenly set aside a joint custody agreement that has been working well, but who can say what the ex has in mind/ what is going on here and who is gona pay the legal bills ?

lota therefore's and what have ya's as the dude would say

[wkd-rdr]

Very much appreciate everyone's thoughts.

The request from the ex is basically asking for a set schedule and full custody. Basically for structure of schedules, but I'm not sure why it needs to be done with a judge. She also said that if I don't agree, that we have to stick with the original (current) plan of 50/50. Thus making a teenage girls life difficult getting to school, practice. Kinda guilt trippy.

The ex is a vindictive cunt, and I feel there is more at work here (so yes, i will look for proper representation). She doesnt allow our boy (12) to come after school even though his bus drops him off a block away. ("I'm not your daycare center"). This has forced some tight decisions with leaving work vs letting him wait on the street corner, as I don't have a school bus in my area.

We verbally agreed to reduce financial support after I took a job to make taking care of my kids after school easier (and way less pay), but it wasn't official for 10 months. At the time of signing, she demanded all the back pay, and I was forced to pay a large sum of cash at that time. I had to use what I was saving for the kids car and college, as the difference in expense was documented and put into an account for them every month, as verbally agreed. So, I don't trust anything she says. I feel a lot of this comes from her current man (maybe they are married, I dunno), but he got raked over the coals by his ex, and now projects that on to our situation. He is a fucking twat.

I went to dinner with my daughter, and she spoke in legal terms like she was being told to. Days per month, expenses, etc. It was like I was talking to my ex, and I was (silently) triggered. It's a shitty situation. It doesn't need to be. It's completely unnecessary to put her through this. As mentioned, she is almost 16 and a parenting plan is more so for younger children.
Anyway, I show up for her games, plan adventures and hope she joins, she is awesome. She had a boyfriend for a while that I had over for dinner several times, has a great group of friends that she went to homecoming with, and is becoming a great human. Her new contact lenses have made it possible for her to see like she has glasses (that she refuses to wear), and she passed the eye test at the dmv for her permit.