First confirmed Measles death since 2003

[old goat]

Is this true? Old goat? Mofro?

I searched pubmed and was unable to find any scientific evidence of a case of measles transmitted from a vaccinated person. Some people shed virus after some vaccines. MMR is felt to shed in small amounts. Influenza vaccine sheds more, which is why vaccine recipients are advised to avoid immunocompromised people. Note that the virus that is shed after immunization is the weakened virus that the vaccine is made of, not the full strength virus that causes disease. The idea of vaccinations spreading the disease is popular in the anit-vax literature, but not in the scientific literature.

Tell them what, genius?

Have I ever said that a child shouldn't get vaccinated for measles?

In fact, the only vaccine that I have voiced an issue with is the hep-B vaccine, which I think is ridiculous to give to your kid, if the mother is not at risk for contracting Hep B.

Again, just to make it completely fucking clear. My issue is with asshole goat stating that any parent that doesn't vaccinate should be charged with child abuse. Fuck him and fuck you if you agree with that ridiculously hyperbolic bullshit statement.

You make an excellent point. Prison is too harsh a solution for people who refuse to vaccinate their children. A more appropriate action would be to treat the children of anti-vaxers the same way we treat the children of Christian Scientists and Jehovah's Witnesses. When those parents refuse treatment necessary to save the life or preserve the health of their children, courts will order treatment. Should coercive vaccination be carried out for Hep B? I don't claim to know enough about that particular vaccine to say. It was required for me for work.
BTW do you think that the more four letter words you use the stronger your argument? Hopefully, you save it for the internet and not around your child. My 2 1/2 year old son used to watch while I framed our upstairs. One day I saw him in the backyard, driving nails into a 2x4 and saying "Oh, shit. Oh, shit."

[mtngirl79]

I reread the news article, and they know someone with measles was there just before her. Not recently vaccinated, but carrying the virus.

I lived in Port Angeles for like 5 years. I hope it wasn't someone I knew.

[doughboyshredder]

I searched pubmed and was unable to find any scientific evidence of a case of measles transmitted from a vaccinated person. Some people shed virus after some vaccines. MMR is felt to shed in small amounts. Influenza vaccine sheds more, which is why vaccine recipients are advised to avoid immunocompromised people. Note that the virus that is shed after immunization is the weakened virus that the vaccine is made of, not the full strength virus that causes disease. The idea of vaccinations spreading the disease is popular in the anit-vax literature, but not in the scientific literature.



You make an excellent point. Prison is too harsh a solution for people who refuse to vaccinate their children. A more appropriate action would be to treat the children of anti-vaxers the same way we treat the children of Christian Scientists and Jehovah's Witnesses. When those parents refuse treatment necessary to save the life or preserve the health of their children, courts will order treatment. Should coercive vaccination be carried out for Hep B? I don't claim to know enough about that particular vaccine to say. It was required for me for work.
BTW do you think that the more four letter words you use the stronger your argument? Hopefully, you save it for the internet and not around your child. My 2 1/2 year old son used to watch while I framed our upstairs. One day I saw him in the backyard, driving nails into a 2x4 and saying "Oh, shit. Oh, shit."

This is actually the only place I cuss. Gotta get it out somewhere. LOL.

I believe we've gone a bit overboard with vaccines and are using a one size fits all approach that works for most children, but not all.

[mtngirl79]

This is actually the only place I cuss. Gotta get it out somewhere. LOL.

I believe we've gone a bit overboard with vaccines and are using a one size fits all approach that works for most children, but not all.

Why is your child different? Ohh. Right. Selfish parents..

[doughboyshredder]

Why is your child different? Ohh. Right. Selfish parents..

Stop being such a dumb bitch.

Oh, wait, you can't.

Never mind.

[huckbucket]

I believe we've gone a bit overboard with vaccines and are using a one size fits all approach that works for most children, but not all.

There may be a few vaccines that we will not be giving our baby, but for the most part he will be getting them, just a bit slower than the standard vax schedule. (Not Sears)

Alright, so where's the evidence that your baby is at greater risk in getting the Hep B vaccine relative to a 6 mo old (?) or toddler?

[old goat]

The Hep B seems like a difficult case to me. The odds of a baby or child getting Hep B, except from parents, seems very low, and the majority of Hep B cases among children in this country will be maternal-fetal and not preventable by vaccinating the child (but may be preventable by vaccinating the mother). Certainly children living in a household with a Hep B carrier should be vaccinated, and serious consideration should be given to vaccinating your kids at an appropriate age. And if you think you know your kids and they aren't that kind of kids, ask yourself how well your parents knew you.

BTW--for anyone who wants to review medical data for themselves, an excellent source is Pubmed, the website of the National Library of Medicine, which contains all the peer reviewed medical journals, including many not in English. Searching can be time consuming, since even when you try to narrow a subject down, the sheer volume of medical literature means you have to wade through a lot of irrelevant papers to find a relevant one. Once you do find a relevant paper or two you will find links to other papers on the same subject. Most articles will be available for free as abstracts only, unless you have access to online full-text through an institution, but the abstracts are usually enough. IMO articles appearing outside peer reviewed scientific journals, while valuable as an overview of an issue and how the issue affects the general public, are worthless as a source of facts.

[mtngirl79]

It's Doucheboyshredder. Far more knowledgeable yhan the CDC. He's got life experience, bro.. like he use to be a pot addict..

[I've seen black diamonds!]

There may be a few vaccines that we will not be giving our baby, but for the most part he will be getting them, just a bit slower than the standard vax schedule. (Not Sears)

Is this your line of thinking?

"People are stupid. I am going to be different than other people, therefore, I am not stupid."

or is it this?

"Needles are scary. I don't want to scare my baby. I will give her/him vaccinations a little later so they will be less scary."

or is it this?

"I don't want the government to control my life! I'm going to use a slightly different vaccination schedule than recommended in order to make a political statement!"

or is it a combination of the three?

[MagnificentUnicorn]

On a serious note ... do we only discontinue vaccinations for a specific pathogen when it's declared eradicated (i.e. smallpox?). How about if there are no confirmed cases on a given continent? How about no confirmed cases in a given country? How about if it's contained to a small, isolated global population?

We do all of those things. I have had vaccinations that I got in the military that I never would have received if I was a civilian unless I was to travel to the tropics in Africa, Asia or Central and South America. I also received the anthrax vaccine that no one would receive because it was for the possibility of being exposed to weaponized anthrax.

[Timberridge]

Someone needs to come up w/ a herpes vaccine.

[old goat]

We do all of those things. I have had vaccinations that I got in the military that I never would have received if I was a civilian unless I was to travel to the tropics in Africa, Asia or Central and South America. I also received the anthrax vaccine that no one would receive because it was for the possibility of being exposed to weaponized anthrax.

Not just military but tourists get vaccines for certain parts of the world for diseases which are found there but not in the US--yellow fever and typhoid for example. OTOH polio has not been seen in the western hemisphere for years yet we still vaccinate. Probably a combination of factors to explain the discrepancy. Polio could be brought into the US by residents of African and Asian countries where it is endemic and transmitted directly to locals. Yellow fever requires a vector--a particular mosquito--which is not currently found in the US (but watch out for climate change) so immigrants don't pose a threat to us. Typhoid is transmitted like polio--fecal-oral-- and is endemic as close to us as Mexico, but is successfully treatable in the vast majority of cases so vaccine is recommended for people who will be traveling to areas where access to the proper care might be a problem--Vietnam for example.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

Not just military but tourists get vaccines for certain parts of the world for diseases which are found there but not in the US--yellow fever and typhoid for example.

That's why I said I wouldn't have had those vaccines as a civilian unless I were to travel to those areas.
I think we still vaccinate against polio because there are still polio outbreaks outside the Western Hemisphere and that would leave hundreds of thousands of people vulnerable if it were to be carried here. That is unlike small pox which is considered eradicated and therefore we stopped vaccinating.

[doughboyshredder]

Is this your line of thinking?

"People are stupid. I am going to be different than other people, therefore, I am not stupid."

or is it this?

"Needles are scary. I don't want to scare my baby. I will give her/him vaccinations a little later so they will be less scary."

or is it this?

"I don't want the government to control my life! I'm going to use a slightly different vaccination schedule than recommended in order to make a political statement!"

or is it a combination of the three?

Actually our line of thinking is that the CDC recommends delaying vaccinations if your child shows a reaction to any vaccine.

We have chosen to give him one vaccine at a time so that we can monitor his reactions and if he does have a reaction we will know which vaccine has caused it.


If this were really a concern then there would be a medical catastrophe happening across the planet (especially in Japan) since many countries follow much less aggressive vaccination schedules without any issues. In fact the U.S. still has a pretty high infant mortality rate. (Japan on the other hand has one of the lowest infant mortality rates, while being considerably less aggressive in vaccinating before 2 years old.)

Just because the CDC has decided something should be done their way doesn't mean there aren't other ways to do it that are just as safe (if not moreso) and just as effective.

[PNWbrit]

Instead of requiring all healthy people to be immunized, how about simply requiring those coming into the country to be adequately checked.

Legal migrants already are subject to health checks, blood tests and vaccination requirements.

Dumbass.

[Sirshredalot]

Actually our line of thinking is that the CDC recommends delaying vaccinations if your child shows a reaction to any vaccine.

We have chosen to give him one vaccine at a time so that we can monitor his reactions and if he does have a reaction we will know which vaccine has caused it.


If this were really a concern then there would be a medical catastrophe happening across the planet (especially in Japan) since many countries follow much less aggressive vaccination schedules without any issues. In fact the U.S. still has a pretty high infant mortality rate. (Japan on the other hand has one of the lowest infant mortality rates, while being considerably less aggressive in vaccinating before 2 years old.)

Just because the CDC has decided something should be done their way doesn't mean there aren't other ways to do it that are just as safe (if not moreso) and just as effective.

Have you considered simply using birth control or getting yourself sterilized? This country has enough stupid people. What gives you the right to create another by passing on your (presumably defective) genes?

[Adolf Allerbush]

I reacted to asshole goat's statement that any parent that doesn't vaccinate should be charged with child abuse. (I.E. that vaccinations should not only be required but that there should be severe penalties for parents that don't follow the law.)

The red herring you're talking about was presented by asshole goat, not me.

If you choose to not vaccinate your kids for measles, mumps, rubella, etc....the common air born contagious diseases...and you decide to place your child in the public thus risking other kids/people then I think you should be penalized. It's one thing to decide that you don't want to vaccinate your kid...but if that same kid gets sick and you have him/her out in public risking the health of other kids then that's a form of potential child abuse IMO because it's completely avoidable.

Also, eradicating a disease seems less profitable for big-pharma than perpetually treating diseases, so I don't agree with your premise.

[PNWbrit]

Y
Japan has a different health delivery system

Universal coverage, single payer, non-profit....

Why do you hate America?

[Gcooker]

If this were really a concern then there would be a medical catastrophe happening across the planet (especially in Japan) since many countries follow much less aggressive vaccination schedules without any issues. In fact the U.S. still has a pretty high infant mortality rate. (Japan on the other hand has one of the lowest infant mortality rates, while being considerably less aggressive in vaccinating before 2 years old.)

Japan has a lower infant mortality rate because it doesn't cost 5k to have a kid in the hospital. Access to free, high quality healthcare, education and health related services is the reason other countries are ahead of the US in regards to infant mortality.

Edit - I type slow, Pio already said it.

[liv2ski]

BTW do you think that the more four letter words you use the stronger your argument? Hopefully, you save it for the internet and not around your child. My 2 1/2 year old son used to watch while I framed our upstairs. One day I saw him in the backyard, driving nails into a 2x4 and saying "Oh, shit. Oh, shit."

That was funny OG. I have no dog in this conversation other than to say I have never met anyone that thought their children had vaccine related issues.
Everything we use does have a small chance of hurting someone and it is truly unfortunate nothing is 100% safe. That said, if you are going to be part of a society, I do feel it is your duty to protect others from your decisions. Liberty with responsibility is a difficult thing for most people. That is why there are laws to save us from our own stupidity.

[doughboyshredder]

Japan has a lower infant mortality rate because it doesn't cost 5k to have a kid in the hospital. Access to free, high quality healthcare, education and health related services is the reason other countries are ahead of the US in regards to infant mortality.

Edit - I type slow, Pio already said it.

My point is that if not vaccinating kids on the most aggressive vaccination schedule in the world was as huge of a risk as some of you seem to think it is that the rest of the world would be in a lot of shit.

[mtngirl79]

My point is that if not vaccinating kids on the most aggressive vaccination schedule in the world was as huge of a risk as some of you seem to think it is that the rest of the world would be in a lot of shit.

Pretty sure the family of the dead woman felt that was a medical catastrophe.

Maybe you could move to Japan...?

[alfajores]

She actually had a very high chance she got the measles from someone who was just vaccinated since they can shed the virus for up to 30 days.

This is propaganda from the antivax movement. Measles vaccines are not the same disease causing virus when they are live attenuated vaccines. They are selected for from non-symptomatic strains of a virus that have incredibly to extremely low rates of reverting to wild type. This means that unless they are surrounded by the wild type virus (the person is experiencing the wild virus) the vaccine does not or is almost completely unable to give symptoms like the disease. Some vaccines have the same symptoms but no enduring pathogen or affects from the symptoms (thus they do not have the symptoms).

Not only is your belief unfounded in the medical and science community, it is generally not supported by antivaxers I have met or heard from. Not all vaccines are needed in every environment, but with Measles, Mumps, Rubella, Diptheria, Polio, chicken pox, and a number of others, I highly recommend you vaccinate children.

{qualifications: Masters of Public Health from tier 1 university and coursework in tropical medicine with field experience in vaccination campaigns for polio. Contracted and dealing with Polio myelitis A because strain information was presumed B before entering the country}.

[doughboyshredder]

Pretty sure the family of the dead woman felt that was a medical catastrophe.

Maybe you could move to Japan...?

I see you're still a fucking idiot.

Do you have any information that can back up your repeated assertion that lack of childhood vaccinations had anything to do with that person contracting measles?

[doughboyshredder]

Not all vaccines are needed in every environment, but with Measles, Mumps, Rubella, Diptheria, Polio, chicken pox, and a number of others, I highly recommend you vaccinate children.

{qualifications: Masters of Public Health from tier 1 university and coursework in tropical medicine with field experience in vaccination campaigns for polio. Contracted and dealing with Polio myelitis A because strain information was presumed B before entering the country}.

Holy shit! An intelligent voice of reason.