First confirmed Measles death since 2003

[huckbucket]

OK. Your problem is with Hep B. Let's focus on that.

Hep B virus
2 billion people carry Hep B (12 million in the US). Most develop immunity (with memory). 5-10% of those people remain chronically infected. That's 400 million people worldwide (more than 1 million in the US). 5,000 people die each year in the US from Hep B. Importantly, 90% of infected infants and 50% of young children will develop chronic infection (i.e. will not clear the infection). Chronically infected people can look forward to cirrhosis and cancer. Not pleasant.

Safety
Exhaustive preclinical and clinical testing along with over 100 of million doses given since 1982 indicate that the HepB vaccine is safe.

Herd Immunity
You can't pick and choose when/if you will get immunized if the goal is to eradicate or reduce the risk of spreading. Obvious figure explains why ... obviously.

[mtngirl79]

This is what the CDC says

How does hepatitis B spread?

Hepatitis B virus spreads through blood or other body fluids that contain small amounts of blood from an infected person. People can spread the virus even when they have no symptoms.

Babies and children can get hepatitis B in the following ways:

At birth from their infected motherBeing bitten by an infected personBy touching open cuts or sores of an infected personThrough sharing toothbrushes or other personal items used by an infected personFrom food that was chewed (for a baby) by an infected person

The virus can live on objects for 7 days or more. Even if you don’t see any blood, there could be virus on an object.

Seems like, no matter how hard you try, it's impossible to keep babies from crawling around and putting their mouths on everything they find.

And not everyone that says they only have sex with their spouse and they don't do IV drugs is telling the truth...

[TBS]

Tell them DBS said the government should not require vaccines proven to be safe to protect everyone at a schedule decided apon by medical doctors.

Don't forget that noted scientists Jenny McCarthy and Jim Carrey have also come out strenuously against vaccinations as well.

[doughboyshredder]

Tell them DBS said the government should not require vaccines proven to be safe to protect everyone at a schedule decided apon by medical doctors.

Because it's the uneducated citizen's right to risk their child's life as well as the publics cause of hysteria and paranoia.

Which vaccine schedule and decided upon by which medical doctors?

[doughboyshredder]

OK. Your problem is with Hep B. Let's focus on that.

Hep B virus
2 billion people carry Hep B (12 million in the US). Most develop immunity (with memory). 5-10% of those people remain chronically infected. That's 400 million people worldwide (more than 1 million in the US). 5,000 people die each year in the US from Hep B. Importantly, 90% of infected infants and 50% of young children will develop chronic infection (i.e. will not clear the infection). Chronically infected people can look forward to cirrhosis and cancer. Not pleasant.

Safety
Exhaustive preclinical and clinical testing along with over 100 of million doses given since 1982 indicate that the HepB vaccine is safe.

Herd Immunity
You can't pick and choose when/if you will get immunized if the goal is to eradicate or reduce the risk of spreading. Obvious figure explains why ... obviously.

I understand herd immunity and vaccination makes sense for most viruses for most people.

If applied to hep B your infographic assumes that everyone is sharing needles and screwing each other without condoms. Hep B is very difficult to catch if you're not a drug user and you're not having illicit unprotected sex.

[doughboyshredder]

This is what the CDC says



Seems like, no matter how hard you try, it's impossible to keep babies from crawling around and putting their mouths on everything they find.
.

That's why you should choose to vaccinate for HEP-A.

Transmissions of Hep-b through casual contact are incredibly rare, and unless you're a really shitty parent it's pretty easy to keep your child from crawling around in filthy areas.

[doughboyshredder]

Only what you've stated. You fill in the blanks.

If it were up to me to guess, I'd bet you don't doubt much. Few people are as certain as the obnoxiously ignorant.

Well, I don't think you've paid much attention to what I've said.

You seem to suggest that I doubt the efficacy of most vaccines. I don't.

I agree with the CDC that all vaccines have a risk associated with them. I believe that it is our responsibility as parents (not the governments) to determine which vaccines benefits outweigh their risks.

At this point I have decided for our child that we would not be giving him the Hep B vaccine and that we wouldn't be loading him up with multiple vaccines in the first couple months of his life. He will probably end up being vaccinated for most everything but we will research each individual vaccine and make our determination based on all of the available research not just because we do what the government tells us.

[doughboyshredder]

Nobody, ever, in the history of history, has trie to require every child to get every possible vaccination. So jus tput that red herring back in the ocean.

Tell them DBS said the government should not require vaccines proven to be safe to protect everyone at a schedule decided apon by medical doctors.

Because it's the uneducated citizen's right to risk their child's life as well as the publics cause of hysteria and paranoia.

Actually spio, mtngirl and others on here are actually saying that all vaccines should be required on a government approved schedule.

[huckbucket]

I understand herd immunity and vaccination makes sense for most viruses for most people.

If applied to hep B your infographic assumes that everyone is sharing needles and screwing each other without condoms. Hep B is very difficult to catch if you're not a drug user and you're not having illicit unprotected sex.

If it's safe (which it is), why does it matter when it's given? If you contend that it isn't safe, I'd like to see some data.

[mtngirl79]

Transmissions of Hep-b through casual contact are incredibly rare, and unless you're a really shitty parent it's pretty easy to keep your child from crawling around in filthy areas.

Because just like HIV you can look at people and their children and just KNOW they are filthy with Hep b, right? And you can see those hep b germs that live for 7 days, right? Yep. With your bare eyes you see them, I'm sure.

[mtngirl79]

Are you going to require all your child's friends be test and or vaccinated? Anyone who enters your home? Anyone you visit?

Hepatitis B (HBV) in Children

What is hepatitis B (HBV)?

Hepatitis B is a disease of the liver caused by the hepatitis B virus. Hepatitis B may affect each person differently. It can be mild, without symptoms, or it may cause chronic hepatitis. Hepatitis B can cause chronic liver disease and liver failure in infants and young children. The hepatitis B virus is spread from person to person through blood and body fluids, such as blood, semen, vaginal secretions, or saliva (although it is not generally transmitted by kissing). Infants may also get the disease if they are born to a mother who has the virus. Infected children often spread the virus to other children if there is frequent contact (for example, household contact) or a child has many scrapes or cuts. People who are likely to be exposed to hepatitis B are:

Children born to mothers who have hepatitis B

Children who are born to mothers who have immigrated from a country where hepatitis B is widespread, such as southeast Asia and China

Children who live in long-term care facilities or who are disabled

Children who live in households where another member is infected with the virus

Children who have a blood clotting disorder, such as hemophilia and require blood products

Children who require dialysis for kidney failure

Adolescents or adults who participate in high-risk activities, such as IV drug use, multiple sexual partners, and/or unprotected sex

People can contract hepatitis B virus infection without knowing how they got it. About one-third of hepatitis B cases in the United States have an unknown source.

Why is hepatitis B a concern?

The younger the person, the greater the likelihood of staying infected with hepatitis B and having life-long liver problems, such as scarring of the liver and liver cancer.

[frorider]

Ironically, when that Dr Sears guy (who published his Alternative Immun Schedule book without actual research behind it) was interviewed, he said that delaying some vaccinations was probably OK thanks to herd immunity. IE his embedded assumption was that only a small percentage of parents would choose to spread out vaccinations. Good job Dr Sears! I do give him credit for honestly identifying selfishness as an underlying motivation for many antivax parents.

[powdork]

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/ar...s-infants.aspx

Interesting read.

Also an interesting read.
http://www.quackwatch.com/11Ind/mercola.html

[2FUNKY]

Also an interesting read.
http://www.quackwatch.com/11Ind/mercola.html

I've read that. It does not address the findings in the article I linked though. The guy has some issues, but that does not fault all his findings, as you can find crazy shit with every publisher of findings. Seems as though everyone has their blinders on regarding this issue and refuses to believe there may be some underlying issues. I have no opinion on this subject on this forum, nothing said here will effect or change my life. I am not here to try and change someone's beliefs/opinion. Carry on, I do like comedy.

[Game Over]

I've read that. It does not address the findings in the article I linked though. The guy has some issues, but that does not fault all his findings, as you can find crazy shit with every publisher of findings. Seems as though everyone has their blinders on regarding this issue and refuses to believe there may be some underlying issues. I have no opinion on this subject on this forum, nothing said here will effect or change my life. I am not here to try and change someone's beliefs/opinion. Carry on, I do like comedy.

except this guys findings are totally fabricated. There is no record of these deaths anywhere nor does the mentioned news article even exist.

[mtngirl79]

Nobody ever said there were no risks with vaccines, either. Just that the benefits far out weigh the risks.

How many children died or became disabled from the measles before the vaccine? How many have serious, lasting side effects or die from the vaccine? A hell of a lot less than measles.

[Art Shirk]

I've read that. It does not address the findings in the article I linked though. The guy has some issues, but that does not fault all his findings, as you can find crazy shit with every publisher of findings. Seems as though everyone has their blinders on regarding this issue and refuses to believe there may be some underlying issues. I have no opinion on this subject on this forum, nothing said here will effect or change my life. I am not here to try and change someone's beliefs/opinion. Carry on, I do like comedy.

"it really boils down to a roll of the dice as to whether the vaccine will ultimately protect you or harm you."
- Dr. Meconiam


Now that's just good science.

This guy also rails against mammograms. He hates boobs. What else do you need to know.

[frorider]

In a thread on another forum a while back, I read an interesting comment from a mother of two kids. Her eldest had reacted negatively to a common vaccine--I don't recall which one--with some negative long term effects possible. One of those one in a million things. Anyway, she and her husband went ahead with that same vaccine a couple of yrs later with the other daughter. No issues. Her reasoning was that she had some experience indirectly with kids fighting cancer and therefore she felt it was her family's responsibility to do what they could to mitigate the risk of exposure to communicable disease for kids that can't get vaccinated.

I'm not doing justice to her wording...was a while ago...but it came across as very sane and noble.

My understanding is that treating kids with cancer has come a long way, to the point that attending public school etc is a real option for many. It's tragic that this coincides with a trend toward less immunization, which fucks up that option.

[IVplay]

Only what you've stated. You fill in the blanks.

If it were up to me to guess, I'd bet you don't doubt much. Few people are as certain as the obnoxiously ignorant.

/thread

[old goat]

Go fuck yourself.

That's pretty much what they anti vaxxers are saying to the rest of us. "We think vaccines are dangerous. We don't think our kids will get any of those diseases because we'll let the rest of you vaccinate your kids and take the risk of a reaction. "

If you can't figure out the difference between the kind of government intrusion the NSA is pulling, and the stuff government does to protect people--like laws against drunk driving, then you probably need to retake junior high civics. Or are you happy to let people drive drunk if they feel like it?

[huckbucket]

On a serious note ... do we only discontinue vaccinations for a specific pathogen when it's declared eradicated (i.e. smallpox?). How about if there are no confirmed cases on a given continent? How about no confirmed cases in a given country? How about if it's contained to a small, isolated global population?

[PB]

I've read that. It does not address the findings in the article I linked though. The guy has some issues, but that does not fault all his findings, as you can find crazy shit with every publisher of findings. Seems as though everyone has their blinders on regarding this issue and refuses to believe there may be some underlying issues. I have no opinion on this subject on this forum, nothing said here will effect or change my life. I am not here to try and change someone's beliefs/opinion. Carry on, I do like comedy.

Well, if you like it, it must be true. Now that you mention it, Idi Amin aid a few things I liked in the last year of his life , therefore …..

The Hitler thing has pretty much run it's course, thought I'd freshen it up a bit.

[PB]

On a serious note ... do we only discontinue vaccinations for a specific pathogen when it's declared eradicated (i.e. smallpox?). How about if there are no confirmed cases on a given continent? How about no confirmed cases in a given country? How about if it's contained to a small, isolated global population?

Define isolated. Depends on the disease i.e. survival/morbidity rates, ease of transmission, etc.

[doughboyshredder]

How much farther will doucheboyshredder walk this back? Can we get him to admit that the only thing he actually opposes is how sharp the needles are, and how they hurt, before he totally abandons what even he knows was a dumbass position?

I haven't walked back anything. You made assumptions about my position and then made false claims. See asshole goats post. He is basically saying vaccines should be mandatory and enforced by law.

I strongly disagree.

There may be a few vaccines that we will not be giving our baby, but for the most part he will be getting them, just a bit slower than the standard vax schedule. (Not Sears)

[goldengatestinx]

Where did this measles breakout start? If the disease hasn't been around in the USA since '03, then it was brought into the country. By an illegal alien perhaps? Allowed to immigrate without adequate health checks or quarantine until it was know they were not carrying a communicable disease?

Instead of requiring all healthy people to be immunized, how about simply requiring those coming into the country to be adequately checked and turned away or quarantined until they are healthy or deported? Why submit the masses to extra scrutiny when the few could be?

A little logic and common sense could go a long way. WHy is the federal government bypassing immigration laws and spreading illegals all over the nation?

CA, WA, AZ and IL are in the top 10 states illegals settle in the USA. Which corresponds directly with the measles breakouts.