Cali exodus to UT???

[FluffyLilKitten]

I'm just curious, with the never-ending Cali drought has there been an exodus of skiers to SLC the last year or two? Are there plans for one? Has people's friends and family moved to UT from CA in significant numbers? I'm just curious on this matter. I was going to ski bum Squaw Valley next year but now I'm just going to go back to the much more reliable UT when even a "bad year" is as good as it gets for most resorts. I was really looking forward to the much better vibe and beauty of Cali but there is no point of being a ski bum without snow. Honest curiosity here, not trying to start anything.

[Harry]

Everyone is headed to Alpental these days.

[WestCoastPDR]

CO has legal weed.

[LightRanger]

Basing your location decision on the drought is... I dunno. I just wouldn't do it. Every season is an open book, especially with the latest ENSO forecasts.

[WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot]

same speculations here in AK and PNW ......... the first to relocate might be folks not seriously tied to the cali. economy;
next, working professionals willing to roll the dice and make the move, hoping to score a job with reasonable pay;
moving is hell expensive, that should stem some of the exodus? IMO, the mass migration will be gradual; remember, 2016 is
an election year, the national economy tends to slow down while everyone waits to see who the new guy/gal will be;
seasonal ag. workers will be on the move too; if you can afford to move to AK, you probably dont need to move in the first place,
its fkn EXPENSIVE to live here....

[Altaholic]

Stay away from MT & WY it sucks here.

[Skidog]

I have seen more ca plates in the lots the last few years here in ut, but dont notice any real influx of new residents. Coincidentally enough ca has the second largest population of Mormons after ut.

[Canada1]

In my neighborhood, at least half of the people are "from" California. I do not think the drought had anything to do with it. Those people that I've asked have listed having kids in a place with really bad schools and traffic as their reasons,

[Bromontana]

Basing your location decision on the drought is... I dunno. I just wouldn't do it. Every season is an open book, especially with the latest ENSO forecasts.

For a ski bum I think a multi year drought is precisely the type of information you'd want to base next year plans around. It's not a secret that UT or JH have and will likely continue to offer more consistent snow/wx than Tahoe.

[nickwm21]

When the pacific blob breaks and the drought buster comes you will be driving across Nevada.

[AlpineZone]

Hi FluffyLilKitten! I would proffer that instead of the overrated, overhyped, overpriced, snowless and parched western quadrant of our great continent, those who have "figured it out" have headed to the northeast and found better snow due to the cold temperatures, more consistant snowfall as well as superior snowmaking(and LOTS of water for the snowmaking systems) as well as a truly more enriching urban and mountain lifestyle. The northeast is the home of the gnarliest snowriding on the North American continent! In addition to the superior intellectual urban environments and lifestyles, you will have easy access to great mountain experiences like Killington, Vermont where the snowriding terrain is truly fabulous, the partying is unmatched anywhere(can you say "hot New Jersey Italian babes?") the snow and weather are underrated, and the setting is lush and green! If you can shred here, you can shred ANYWHERE. When you score your first Killington powder day in "Anarchy", "The Throne", "Chop Chop" or "Patsy", you will be grinning from ear to ear, I promise you! There is lift-serviced mountain biking in the summer and the autumn colors are unmacthed anywhere on the planet. I would also like to take this opportunity to formally invite you (as well as all TGR Maggots , TTip-ers, NewSchoolers, Epicureans, jongs and lurkers alike) to come join our fun-loving but responsible bunch of snowriding aficionados at http://forums.alpinezone.com/. I think most all of you will find that our seasoned moderators "keep the bar high" by maintaining a sense of order and decorum, while encouraging quality discussion about our favorite pastime. I can assure you that "newbies"'(jongs) are welcomed with open arms by our entire community(unlike here at TGR), and there is no "hazing period" or rudeness tolerated. We also have superior bandwidth and response times on our 502g superfibre network as well as a state-of-the-art virtual blade server farm with 5000 terabytes of virtual disk space for your photos, blogs etc. It may take a small amount of getting used to, as we do have reasonable standards as far as language and image posting that are strictly enforced. The registration is easy and painless, and the rules will be explained in detail during the process. I will warn you however up front that registering an ALIAS is strictly "VERBOTEN", and something we have zero-tolerance with. If you are tired of the juvenile goings-on at TGR and Newschoolers and yearn for a snowriding forum that matches your maturity level, all I can say is: "Come join the fun"!
PS here is the latest KILLINGTON SNOW REPORT

[TahoeJ]

Typically Utah is in the same path for most of the storms that hit Tahoe, so that wouldn't exactly be my first choice of exodus. When there's a persistent ridge off the coast causing a split or a push to the North, they sometimes don't come back around until Colorado and merely graze or skip Utah, which is what happened a bunch of times the last few years. Yeah, it was better in the LCC this winter than Tahoe, but they've still been down years.

[Grape_Ape]

KILLINGTON SNOW REPORT[/I][/URL]

Are you really recommending Killington over the west? High on drugs you must be.

I wouldn't recommend Killington over just about 20 other mountains in the northeast. Ski Liberty just may be one of them.

[Skidog]

Are you really recommending Killington over the west? High on drugs you must be.

I wouldn't recommend Killington over just about 20 other mountains in the northeast. Ski Liberty just may be one of them.

It sure aint utah or tahoe, but its hardly a bad place either. Ample snowfall, ample snowmaking, pretty good grooming, and LOTS of terrain. Its pretty easy to avoid any crowds if you knnow you're way around the mtn and know how to be just ahead of the bigger crowds, by working the mtn a little. I will say for families it may be difficult as its sprawling and can be difficult to navigate for touristas. Head down the road to Pico for family ease.

[TEXASS]

Hey Greg form Alpinezone, Im going up to Mt. Shasta on May 30/31. I plan on skiing at least 5000 feet of corn oof maybe pow. Thats one run. Can I do that ANYWHERE on the east coast? Or would I have to make 500 foot runs all day till I get the 5K?

You should come with us. But, that will require two nights snow camping and lots more skiing than 5K. Do ou have anything like that in Vermont now....or ever?

[My Pet Powder Goat]

Hey Greg form Alpinezone, Im going up to Mt. Shasta on May 30/31. I plan on skiing at least 5000 feet of corn oof maybe pow. Thats one run. Can I do that ANYWHERE on the east coast? Or would I have to make 500 foot runs all day till I get the 5K?

You should come with us. But, that will require two nights snow camping and lots more skiing than 5K. Do ou have anything like that in Vermont now....or ever?

Your cluelessness has reached new, and hilarious, heights

[Grape_Ape]

Hey Greg form Alpinezone, Im going up to Mt. Shasta on May 30/31. I plan on skiing at least 5000 feet of corn oof maybe pow. Thats one run. Can I do that ANYWHERE on the east coast? Or would I have to make 500 foot runs all day till I get the 5K?

You should come with us. But, that will require two nights snow camping and lots more skiing than 5K. Do ou have anything like that in Vermont now....or ever?

Now, now, now...you are making this personal. New England has some bitching terrain...do not underestimate the east or eastern skiers.

My gripes about Killington are in regards to the chopped up nature of the vertical there. Also, too many tools from NJ and NYC. If I want to ski with gapers, I would stay down here. I don't need "nightlife" because at the end of my ski day, I want to rest for the next ski day.

[TahoeJ]

Holy jong fest...

[jibmaster]

Hey Greg form Alpinezone, Im going up to Mt. Shasta on May 30/31. I plan on skiing at least 5000 feet of corn oof maybe pow. Thats one run. Can I do that ANYWHERE on the east coast? Or would I have to make 500 foot runs all day till I get the 5K?

You should come with us. But, that will require two nights snow camping and lots more skiing than 5K. Do ou have anything like that in Vermont now....or ever?

This

...pretty good grooming...

That
is pathetic

[LightRanger]

For a ski bum I think a multi year drought is precisely the type of information you'd want to base next year plans around. It's not a secret that UT or JH have and will likely continue to offer more consistent snow/wx than Tahoe.

Typically Utah is in the same path for most of the storms that hit Tahoe, so that wouldn't exactly be my first choice of exodus. When there's a persistent ridge off the coast causing a split or a push to the North, they sometimes don't come back around until Colorado and merely graze or skip Utah, which is what happened a bunch of times the last few years. Yeah, it was better in the LCC this winter than Tahoe, but they've still been down years.

J made part of my point. But the larger point was: droughts are retrospective. We have no idea what next winter's going to be like. This time last year NOAA was forecasting a moderate-to-strong El Nino. If that had materialized, the Central Sierra would have done well based on past history. Next winter is an open book. CA had a drought from 2007-2009, and then 2010 and (especially) 2011 were really awesome years. Next year may be too. I'd look at data here to make a more-informed decision: http://bestsnow.net/pwdrpct.htm

And, like I said, the current ENSO forecast looks strongly positive, which has major implications for Western US precip (e.g. lower in Jackson, higher in Mammoth and, say, Taos).

[nickwm21]

Ahh 2011. 9' of snow over 4 days.

California's inconsistency at its best.

[Bromontana]

My point is you can mitigate the risk of a non-winter by avoiding an area that really hasn't had a legit season in several years. If you're bumming you're flexible on location. Why pick the area with the most volatility in conditions?

from your source:
Many Sierra Nevada resorts are in the 350 inch range also, but with higher volatility.

Notice that the odds of 12+ inches are much higher in the Sierra Nevada than in Rockies areas with similar annual snowfall but that the probability of essentially no powder in a week is nearly 50%

whereas that risk is more than halved at Alta.

23% of weeks will have no days of 6+ inches

If you're low on funds and need to set up shop in one area, choose UT over CA every time. You won't lose a winter and you'll get a lot more powder days on average.

[LightRanger]

My point is you can mitigate the risk of a non-winter by avoiding an area that really hasn't had a legit season in several years.

You missed my point. Correlation is not causation, and past performance does not dictate future results.

The stats I posted show that UT has less volatility. Sure. But the last several years in CA were merely volatility signals--data points--not future predictors. But the OP is using them as a future predictor, as are you. Based on the onthesnow stats, we could be sitting in May 2011, and UT would still be a better bet in terms of consistency. But by the OP and your logic, he/she should stick with CA because the last 2-3 seasons were huge. And then he/she would've gotten skunked as 2011-2012 was a poor season in CA. Make sense?

If you look at the ENSO forecast, you can stack the odds in your favor. Especially if you can wait another month or two for it to clear up more.

[meter-man]

Forget trying to predict the snowfall - decide what you want. Yes, California always has longer stretches between snow than UT, and generally that snow comes in huge storms with higher moisture content. But we have about 100,000 more mountains, a much more stable snowpack, and a comparatively empty backcountry. If you want to ride lifts in better, more consistent snow, and/or share a more volatile BC snowpack with more concentrated users, pick UT. It's also cheaper.

Oh YEAH, but if you want hot NJ babes, and excellent grooming, definitely Killington.

To answer the OP's question, I think some pros and dedicated skiers have moved on to other locations, or have diversified their pass purchases (Mt Collective, etc.), but I don't think there's a mass exodus or anything. There's too much good in California, in even during 4 straight awful winters.

[snapt]

Greg knocking it out of the park as usual.