ProtoPolyAss: What About Building Water Pipelines To CA and the SW?

[neufox47]

^^^^ Truth hurt ya much? Prove it ain't otherwise.

30 million people who all act exactly alike.

[splat]

30 million people who all act exactly alike.

See? Right there. How could numbers like that be wrong?


heh.

[WTF is dat]

You know, twice in my little long term vacations in Colorado, people have told me that what they miss about the east is the green. It's true though. It rains here. There's all sorts of foliage and running streams everywhere. We may have our issues, but, we have plenty of water, something that will be fought over in wars pretty soon elsewhere. Good luck with that.

yeah, I look at these drone shots taken of the Denver metro area in September (the drier end of the summer) and think to myself, "Wow, there really Is no green foliage in Colorado. it is all brown and ugly."

I think the same things when walking through the aspen forests in vail, or when I sit along the boulder creek surrounded by pine and cottonwood.


http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=213329

[Benny Profane]

Wait. Those are....parks. You are aware of that, right?

[splat]

If everything outside the parks was shit brown it'd look a lot more like a drought.
But it's not.

[WTF is dat]

Wait. Those are....parks. You are aware of that, right?

duh, but those photos also show the green foliage that is found across much of the Denver metro area.


my point is that a few posts ago you claimed that Colorado is nothing but brown, and is always brown. This is false.

Denver metro gets very green in the early summer, and the mountains become incredibly green in the aspen/ pine forests and surrounding meadows, as long as we have a few decent rains in the spring.

[Benny Profane]

Yeah. Lush.

How old are you. Have you ever been to a lush place?

[Benny Profane]

If everything outside the parks was shit brown it'd look a lot more like a drought.
But it's not.

No offense, Splat, but you live in a town that is basically dry clay, too.

[WTF is dat]

Yeah. Lush.

How old are you. Have you ever been to a lush place?

Wait a second.... I never said lush. My response was to your claim that Colorado is brown, and always brown. I never claimed Colorado was lush. You are constructing a straw man argument.

and yes, I have been to lush places. I visited the rainiest spot in the world when I went to Kauai last summer. Also have travelled the Caribbean and central America, as well as the east coast.

[Cono Este]

http://mondoweiss.net/2013/07/oligar...ey-lobbied-for

Don't know if this was posted already but it's a good read about a real piece of shit.

A pipeline would take yrs buster. California is set to implode, happens every so often. Probably healthy in the long run as far as agriculture and the rest of the country. Produce prices have sucked for too long and there is money in it but for the largest farms. I hope Bolthouse and Paramount go under and free the rest industry from its monopoly.

[bodywhomper]

lush? why are we speaking about lush?

the feather river watershed gets like 70" of rain annually in the upper watershed. that's a good amount of rain and snow. it's not like kauai rainforest/highlands, but pretty close to some of the areas in the east known to have high precip. that watershed fills the second largest reservoir in the state; 3,500,000 acre feet (1,140,480,000,000 US gallons or apparently about 1.14 trillion almonds).

has anybody mentioned east of eden in this thread yet? well now they have.

[4matic]

http://mondoweiss.net/2013/07/oligar...ey-lobbied-for

Don't know if this was posted already but it's a good read about a real piece of shit.

A pipeline would take yrs buster. California is set to implode, happens every so often. Probably healthy in the long run as far as agriculture and the rest of the country. Produce prices have sucked for too long and there is money in it but for the largest farms. I hope Bolthouse and Paramount go under and free the rest industry from its monopoly.

Agree. Farming is just another globalized business available to the highest bidder. Getting the private water rights back from individuals will be daunting. It's interesting that the heavy rains in the Napa County means no water shortage for the wine industry and Napa area. Their reservoirs are full:

http://napavalleyregister.com/news/l...a131a1046.html

[This End Up]

has anybody mentioned east of eden in this thread yet? well now they have.

has anyone mentioned Chinatown (the movie)?

I propose they build one big dam, and make the entire central valley a hudge reservoir. Flood everything from Stockton to Bakersfield

[bodywhomper]

Tulare lake

[DasBlunt]

Tulare lake

dreaming of the past.

"But in a process reminiscent of the drying-up of the Aral Sea or Lake Chad [5], Tulare Lake was depleted by the diversion of its tributaries for the purpose of irrigation. By the early 20th century, the lake was largely dry."

[Viva]

Flood everything from Stockton to Bakersfield

I'm on board.

[boarddad]

"I propose they build one big dam, and make the entire central valley a hudge reservoir. Flood everything from Stockton to Bakersfield"

Not a fan of this area either, but this wouldn't work. The problem isn't with storage, but dedicated usage. This is one of the reasons the Auburn dam was always such a bad idea. Sure, dam up the North and Middle forks of the upper American river, destroy some of the most picturesque forest on earth, not to mention so really bad-ass rafting, and for what? The water from the lake would drain into Folsom Lake - when was the last time that lake was filled to capacity?you could fill Folsom by stemming the flow into the lower American River - but you can't do that because all of THAT water is spoken for.

Ag uses most of the water, Ag is the only user that can reduce usage and have any impact. I'm a strong believer in Capitalism, but the frivolous crops, wine grapes, almonds etc. have to go. You want to talk wasteful - ever see how much money goes to corn subsidies? You could build the HSR outright - it's crazy. The corn goes to ethanol which has been discussed, but also corn syrup, which is cheaper (thanks to the corn subsidies) and easier to transport than sugar.

Back on topic - if the California aqueduct system can be built, so too could a pipeline from just about anywhere. Seems like dumping an equal amount of money into r&d of desal would yield far better long-term results though. Yes it's expensive and the energy source inadequate - for now. That will change. It is dubious the gov. Brown leaves desal well down on the list when talking about solutions IMHO.

[bodywhomper]

are those complaining about ag use of water (not just in this thread) changing their usage as a consumers?

a lot of ag land went fallow in 2014 and will again be fallow this year due to junior water rights curtailments. what are the overall economics of that, for the region, state, country? i know my bacon costs more at the market....

water in CA is not about dedicated usage, it's based on a rights system; similar to property rights, but the holder does not own the water. most surface water in CA is intentionally over-appropriated for times of excess. the water rights system in CA are about to get very stressed. swrcb is issuing a one size fits all requirement for reductions which is going to overly tax some and be easy for others to meet. what's going on in water rights is about to get super ugly. potential curtailment in senior water rights? watch out!....

regarding folsom dam/reservoir, my understanding, is that folsom is operated to not be full capacity and that ~40% of capacity in winter and spring is dedicated for flood protection (something like the 65-year discharge). ops of that dam, and many of the other terminal western slope dams in CA, is fairly complex. i'm not touting anything about auburn dam and whether the concept was good or bad, but the climate change projections are for less precip as snow and more as rain. the existing spring and early summer frozen reservoir is going to be reduced. what are solutions for that? more reservoirs? open-up floodplains and more active gnd water recharge?

[LightRanger]

"I propose they build one big dam, and make the entire central valley a hudge reservoir. Flood everything from Stockton to Bakersfield"

Not a fan of this area either, but this wouldn't work. The problem isn't with storage, but dedicated usage. This is one of the reasons the Auburn dam was always such a bad idea. Sure, dam up the North and Middle forks of the upper American river, destroy some of the most picturesque forest on earth, not to mention so really bad-ass rafting, and for what? The water from the lake would drain into Folsom Lake - when was the last time that lake was filled to capacity?you could fill Folsom by stemming the flow into the lower American River - but you can't do that because all of THAT water is spoken for.

Ag uses most of the water, Ag is the only user that can reduce usage and have any impact. I'm a strong believer in Capitalism, but the frivolous crops, wine grapes, almonds etc. have to go. You want to talk wasteful - ever see how much money goes to corn subsidies? You could build the HSR outright - it's crazy. The corn goes to ethanol which has been discussed, but also corn syrup, which is cheaper (thanks to the corn subsidies) and easier to transport than sugar.

Back on topic - if the California aqueduct system can be built, so too could a pipeline from just about anywhere. Seems like dumping an equal amount of money into r&d of desal would yield far better long-term results though. Yes it's expensive and the energy source inadequate - for now. That will change. It is dubious the gov. Brown leaves desal well down on the list when talking about solutions IMHO.

Auburn was always for flood control, not storage. Storage with that dam would just be incidental. Raising Folsom is a poor substitute from an flood control engineering perspective. Not that I'm in favor of Auburn, but keep it in context.

Desal isn't cost effective except in the deepest of deep droughts, and even then only in isolated areas.

[TahoeJ]

Umm... just because these are the first water restrictions on the state-wide level in CA, that doesn't mean there haven't been plenty of restrictions already for the past several years at the county level - which also makes a hell of a lot more sense considering the watersheds way up north have shit to do with, say, San Diego which is 700 miles south. It's a big fucking state if you haven't noticed.

I agree that CA has shitty drivers, but Colorado residents are not the ones who should talk smack about it considering the I-70 jong show. Hey, how about you gun that accelerator and spin-out again, dumbass? Oh right, no chain controls cause 'merica and freedom and shit.

[DasBlunt]

Cali drivers have changed a bunch...used to be some of the best in the nation.

Colorado drivers are either super slow, or super stupid. Lots of safe drivers too....not too crazy except in the snow.

[DasBlunt]

Seems like dumping an equal amount of money into r&d of desal would yield far better long-term results though. Yes it's expensive and the energy source inadequate - for now. That will change. It is dubious the gov. Brown leaves desal well down on the list when talking about solutions IMHO.

I guess you missed DJ Sapp's excellent lecture on Desalination and how it would not be able to meet any sort of demand for the population numbers we see in California.


on another tangent,
Privatization of water rights will cause wars.

[freshie247]

You've got a bag filled with water & there's a hole in the bag. You keep pouring water in, but the hole is expanding, so pouring the same amount of water in it isn't going to work, & pouring less & less is worse. Some communities gotta go, Vegas, Phoenix.........

At some point , most all future wars will be about water. Think Pakistan,India, China.

[TahoeJ]

At some point , most all future wars will be about food. Think Pakistan,India, China.

FIFY....

[freshie247]

Water is much more important than food.Most can't survive longer than 3 days without water, & you can't grow food or eat animals if there's no water for them to drink. Humans can survive with little or no food for much longer.