ProtoPolyAss: What About Building Water Pipelines To CA and the SW?

[MagnificentUnicorn]

as I said - stump dumb



A postcard shows what remained after a herd of buffalo was slaughtered; buffalo skulls piled on grassland, somewhere in Michigan.

There were large herds of buffalo in Michigan?

[Game Over]

There were large herds of buffalo in Michigan?

yes. In the NE they were in western NY, in the SE they were almost to Florida. They reached Mexico in the south and west into eastern Cali, Oregon and WA. ALso went way up into northern BC and Alberta...
http://voices.nationalgeographic.com...cas-serengeti/

[Game Over]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi..._range_map.svg

[Deebased]

What's stopping the OC or any of the SoCal cities from buying up a billion $$ in farms and absorbing their water rights? I'm can't begin to understand why this is even an issue when common sense solutions could solve it overnight.

[Game Over]

i give up. there is a good pic on wiki showing the bison range.

[Game Over]

What's stopping the OC or any of the SoCal cities from buying up a billion $$ in farms and absorbing their water rights? I'm can't begin to understand why this is even an issue when common sense solutions could solve it overnight.

good point. I am also interested in this idea

[TAFKALVS]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi..._range_map.svg

I think its tragic that far more effort has been put into re-introducing apex predators which are highly conversational (and scary for some people) vs the good ole' American Buffalo. I bet far more people would be in favor of buffalo than wolves, grizzly, etc. In fact I bet if we had huge swaths of buffalo running amok, I bet the wolves wouldn't sound so bad.

/end thread drift.

[capulin overdrive]

What's stopping the OC or any of the SoCal cities from buying up a billion $$ in farms and absorbing their water rights? I'm can't begin to understand why this is even an issue when common sense solutions could solve it overnight.

Colorado has done this already, and maybe still is.


With claims of beg, borrow, or steal being used along with buying.

[farmguy]

So, move Ag....where in the hell can ag move to? Less than 4% of the surface of the earth can grow anything.
Buy Ag's water rights....what are you going to eat? import everything from China? That's a winner!

It would seem like anybody with their head out of their ass would give FOOD the benefit here, after all, everyone still eats! And until there is a alternate food source, people might want to see a few golf courses go dry, drain a few pools so you can still have 3 meals a day grown here in the US.....(for the most part)

btw, the reason alfalfa hay is sent to Japan and other Asian country's is they have no land space to grow alfalfa, they do however have animals to feed. China is NOT a major importer of alfalfa hay....yet.

[Deebased]

So, move Ag....where in the hell can ag move to? Less than 4% of the surface of the earth can grow anything.
Buy Ag's water rights....what are you going to eat? import everything from China? That's a winner!

It would seem like anybody with their head out of their ass would give FOOD the benefit here, after all, everyone still eats! And until there is a alternate food source, people might want to see a few golf courses go dry, drain a few pools so you can still have 3 meals a day grown here in the US.....(for the most part)

btw, the reason alfalfa hay is sent to Japan and other Asian country's is they have no land space to grow alfalfa, they do however have animals to feed. China is NOT a major importer of alfalfa hay....yet.

There's plenty of farmland available across the breadbasket of the US that's stuck growing corn Ethanol bullshit because its the cash crop. Create a shortage of <name food here> and they'll start growing it there.

[Game Over]

you sure about that alfalfa export stat Farmguy?
http://touch.latimes.com/#section/-1.../p2p-80446309/

"China has now pushed past Japan as Asia's biggest buyer of U.S. alfalfa and is second only to United Arab Emirates as the globe's top importer, according to data from the U.S. Department of Agriculture"

[Game Over]

debased corn is way down-> soy is way up and is the new corn (because of exports to feed animals)
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...as-profit-king

but that is a non issue. comparing the midwest's growing season to the valley in California's is... well there is no comparison.

[Deebased]

So, move Ag....where in the hell can ag move to? Less than 4% of the surface of the earth can grow anything.
Buy Ag's water rights....what are you going to eat? import everything from China? That's a winner!

Itt.

Thought I'd dissect this a bit http://chartsbin.com/view/wwu



So 90% of the earth's surface is definitively unusable covered by ice, desert, mountains, water. Of the remaining 10% almost half of that is useful for farming?

[DJSapp]

What's stopping the OC or any of the SoCal cities from buying up a billion $$ in farms and absorbing their water rights? I'm can't begin to understand why this is even an issue when common sense solutions could solve it overnight.

1. The farmers in the valley are old school and wouldn't sell to a municipiality. There is quite a history of land/water grabs in the state by LADWP and the like (i.e. Owens Valley)
2. CA water law is now quite convoluted regarding junior and senior water rights. If I understand correctly, even if they did buy the farmland their water rights would get lowered to the bottom of the heap, so they'd get screwed.
3. OC and SoCal aren't suffering from water restrictions in the same way farmers are. They're still getting water, and plenty of it.

Keep in mind a lot of the facts on water usage in CA:

50% (33% if you exclude the N. Coast) of it is used in environmental pursuits. If we truly wanted to say screw the environment, we need water, we'd dam off the golden gate, turn SF Bay into a freshwater bay and be done with it. Problem solved. Environmental apocalypse, sure, but we have water.
40% (53% if you exclude the N. Coast) of it is used for ag. Yup. And the gov't just told the farmers they're getting 0% allocation from surface water because they have to meet environmental requirements and get some water to Socal.
10% (14% if you exclude the N. Coast) is for urban use. And of that, we've just been told to conserve 25% of it. That's a whopping 2.5% of the total water pie for CA, and the hardest to get.

source: http://www.ppic.org/main/publication_show.asp?i=1108

The point? LA and OC aren't going to dry up and blow away, the system puts human lives above farming so there's no reason for a land grab. Buying up the farms would only give you another location to drill a well The farmers will suffer for a couple years while (in some respects, correctly) complaining that the drought they are experiencing is government made, produce prices in the US will rise. The farmers also shot themselves in the ass by turning more and more land into higher margin perennial crops that need to consistently be watered. Now they're not able to and they're freaking out because they took the risk and are losing.

[farmguy]

Its been 4 yrs since we exported any hay and at that time China was still being explored, last I talked to my neighbors, it was still moving slow and most of their crop was going to Asian markets.

Of the 10% farmable ground, take out cities, towns roads etc, also factor in how much is lost every year to urban sprawl. I think the last number I saw was 50,000 acres in CA alone what's left is farm ground. Right now we are growing more food on less ground then we did in the 50's.

The reason they grow corn in the bread basket.....and very little else...they have no....wait for it.......WATER! They depend almost entirely on rainfall to grow anything, the major crops are corn, soybeans, wheat. The other 2 choice's of water are the Colorado river, CA and AZ suck on that as well and the.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ogallala_Aquifer..which is being drawn down damn fast. Corn for Ethanol, so what? People want to be free from OPEC so they are willing to add 10% ethanol to gas to reduce our dependency on them. Drill more, find another source and ethanol goes away. Moving crops from CA east to the bread basket will not work, they are grown there for a reason, climate, soil, water. CA has the largest number or variety of crops grown anywhere in the US, over 300 different crops I think, WA is second with 250+. The bad news, growing food takes water, and a hell of a lot of it and it has to always be there, crops die on allotments. If you need 30 inches a year to crow rice, it will not produce crap at 20 inches, it dies.

[KQ]

i think its crazy that most places in California have no ground water protection laws. Here on our farm in Lane County, Oregon we have two strong wells (and several creeks but thats aside the point) and we can't use a drop for farm use aside from watering livestock. From what I gather nothing is stopping farmers down there in many locals from drilling wells and pumping water at will.

Here in Washington I too have restrictions on my well. I can only use it for irrigation after I've depleted my surface water right. You can buy rights to drill basalt wells but it's a pretty penny.

In Odessa Washington the aquifer is running dry. Soon the town will be without water.

Study finds Odessa aquifer is running out of time

[KQ]

yes. In the NE they were in western NY, in the SE they were almost to Florida. They reached Mexico in the south and west into eastern Cali, Oregon and WA. ALso went way up into northern BC and Alberta...
http://voices.nationalgeographic.com...cas-serengeti/

And Grizzlies roamed the great plains in large numbers.

[ill-advised strategy]

I will go full-on-looney pipe bomb ecoterrorist if anybody tries to drain my fucking lake.



Not while I live and breathe. No fucking way.

[Trace Hardslab]

What is it they say in Colorado? "whisky's for drinking, water's for fighting", something like that.....

For those who haven't read it, pick up a copy of Cadillac Desert: The American West and Its Disappearing Water,

^^^^For sure a great read about large-scale water diversions and associated politics.

Another saying attributed to Colorado : "water doesn't flow downhill, it flows towards money".

Multiple trans-divide diversion projects have left a roster of excellent spring-skiing trailheads throughout the state. This makes me feel better about being part of the problem.

[Ski to Be]

Lightanger

Carry on... (Also, Ski to Be, we have a budget surplus these days. Get your shit straight.)[/QUOTE]

My bad on that and thanks for the correction.

[Danno]

What's amazing is that there is any Western state left that does not fully recognize that surface water and groundwater might be hydrologically connected.

[Benny Profane]

The Chinese would pull this off easily if they were in charge, and put all you naysayers in the gallows if you didn't like it.

Aren't they attempting to do something like this over there?

[Benny Profane]

Meanwhile, Brazil's largest city is a few steps ahead of L.A. In this crisis.

http://www.theguardian.com/cities/20...isis-rationing

[mcski]

Can you get sick from drinking piss?

[DasBlunt]

DJ Sapp bringing the knowledge. thanks man.

How does Mt. Shasta look this week? Anyone? Photos? recon?