Exit Counseling- NSR

[wookalar]

see if your school is down for the maneuver mine pulled

this was undergrad, but private undergrad, and when it was all said and done I owed about 30k

they paid my loans off for me as soon as I graduated, then I owed them the money. This was a zero percent loan. The upside for the school, as it was explained to me, is that they qualify for more money/better rates if their student loans are paid off sooner. It shows they aren't graduating a bunch of bums I guess, and those loans can extend for years (I still owe them several thousand, and I got out in 95).

You get a zero percent loan, they get a better perception...it's win win to me

just a suggestion

[The AD]

Yeah...BB did you miss just how much I owe???? Like taking off my clothes for dirty and broke ski bums is going to get me ANYWHERE.

O, come on, it's worth a shot

[BakerBoy]

Yeah...BB did you miss just how much I owe???? Like taking off my clothes for dirty and broke ski bums is going to get me ANYWHERE.

It got Kristi Leskinen a clothing sponsor...

[girlski0912]

see if your school is down for the maneuver mine pulled

this was undergrad, but private undergrad, and when it was all said and done I owed about 30k

they paid my loans off for me as soon as I graduated, then I owed them the money. This was a zero percent loan. The upside for the school, as it was explained to me, is that they qualify for more money/better rates if their student loans are paid off sooner. It shows they aren't graduating a bunch of bums I guess, and those loans can extend for years (I still owe them several thousand, and I got out in 95).

You get a zero percent loan, they get a better perception...it's win win to me

just a suggestion

My school does something to this effect. They offer a Legal Public Interest Repayment program. Basically if you work in the public interest/non profit arena as an attorney, make less than 45K a year, AND work that job for at least a year, you can qualify for a 5K loan. Then if you continue in your position for another year, they essentially forgive the loan. But, if you quit your job in that year after recieving the money you owe the school 5K.
But that is my only option. The law school is in the business of making money, oh and while they are at it, teaching us all how to be lawyers. I think that if they offered a program like you mentioned, given how much the average debt in my class was as an indicator of how much they would be paying and how many people would be applying, I am not sure what sort of incentive the law school would have. I wish that they offered what you were able to take advantage of.

And the more I think about loan repayment (that exit counseling sort of took a shit on my day) the more I am starting to regret ever going to law school if I wasn't wholly committed to it. I was when is started, but like I said earlier, I was pretty jaded by the entire process. I could have gotten out then and paid less, but I would have had nothing to show for it. However if I'm not in that big of a hurry to be an attorney, then what difference does it make.
Sorry...this has become the latest entry in Girlski's diary of regret and dispair.

[girlski0912]

It got Kristi Leskinen a clothing sponsor...

Well in that case...

[Arty50]

I don't know the exact details, but I believe there is another option that will allow you to ski bum. Take a class or two at a local JC in SLC. I don't think you even have to bother attending, and who cares what grade you get too. From what I understand, as long as you're still enrolled in school you either don't have to pay back the loans or have to pay them back at a vastly reduced rate.

[EPSkis]

Like taking off my clothes for dirty and broke ski bums is going to get me ANYWHERE.

No, you couldn't do it in a ski town, but you COULD, for example - do it in D.C. and have that loan paid off in a year.

[girlski0912]

I don't know the exact details, but I believe there is another option that will allow you to ski bum. Take a class or two at a local JC in SLC. I don't think you even have to bother attending, and who cares what grade you get too. From what I understand, as long as you're still enrolled in school you either don't have to pay back the loans or have to pay them back at a vastly reduced rate.

The deferment stuff works with my federal loans. As long as they are in deferment status, the unsubsidized loans don't accrue interest and the subsidized will accrue at a rate of 2.75%(that is the rate that I will get once I consolidate my federal loans). It is my private loans that are the ones I am afraid of. I have 69K (hahahahaha, to bad the 69 I am dealing with now isn't as much fun... ) in private loans. I can't consolidate them and they don't have an interest cap. So when the feds hike the rate as of July 1, my private lenders will hike theirs as well. If I defer, the interest still accrues on my private loans. Even if I am in school.
But that isn't a bad idea Arty. I might look into it to see what would happen with my privates...loans that is

[Squirrel99]

On the other hand, girlski as a stripper would be pretty rad. Do you do bachelor parties?

Yeah, I seem to remember somebody in Bellingham that could enlist your services for an evening this summer- of course, I think there should be a bro-brah discount for maggots

Besides, I hear the ladies at the Boot Pub take in some good coin, but you could always make more cash somewhere on Granville or Seymour.

[Core Shot]

Your public interest program at school is only $5k??? they suck. what the fuck is anyone going to do with that? that's retarded. Do they really think one little 5k carrot is going to convince someone to take a shitty DA or PD or non-profit job that pays less than $45k instead of selling out to a firm that pays $100-150k??

Bankruptcy is quite advisable if you cant get a high end sellout job.
$116k in loans (and this aint a mortgage with equity behind it) and a $35k job is not a good recipe for success. It'l take you another ten years just to dig out of that hole.
I guess that doesn't cheer you up, but those numbers dont look good.

Are you sure BK wont wipe out student loans? If not, then how are you supposed to get out from under that rock?

I second the ski-bumming angle - you might even meet Mr. Moneybags out there

[edit - reread that over half is private loans - are you sure those cant be whacked in BK??? look into it if you cant find that quality job. There is more shame in not filing BK and fucking up the next ten years of your life]

[13]

Yeah...BB did you miss just how much I owe???? Like taking off my clothes for dirty and broke ski bums is going to get me ANYWHERE.

Careful, not all dirty ski bums are broke -- many are trustafarians acting the part.

[lemon boy]

You already have to wait 7+ years out of your degree program to wipe student debt out with bankrupcy precisely because every student graduating from school is basically bankrupt.

A good friend of mine (who kills it on a board) came out of lie school, worked in the shitty for "the man" for a while, then he moved and worked for a mtn town firm as their lit monkey boy and finally now is working as an assistant county atty. Guess which one is the best of those jobs by far? Oh and yeah, he's ACA in a ski town. Hint, hint hint. there are a lot of cake, not horribly paying jobs for lieyers in ski towns.

[Stu Gotz]

Isn't your third year of law school like ski bumming anyway?

[DJMingus]

Girlski, listen to lemonboy...

My wife went through a situation quite similar to yours. Got out of law school with massive debt and quickly started hating working as an attorney. After a number of years she ended up getting laid off in a merger and tried dirtbagging it for a while.. Guess what - the only thing that sucks worse than working 'for the man' is working for the man for peanuts - and you're always working for the man. Most $10/hr jobs suck even worse than the $100K-plus ones.

The trick is to figure out how to make that degree work for you. You put way too much time, energy and money into that to throw it away. I know a number of lawyers in their forties that have sweet setups - working for themselves or in cush situations and doing lots of climbing and skiing. You may be working for peanuts as you start out (just like any field) but in the law you'll be doubling that salary in way less time than doing something else you're not trained for. When those loans are paid off you'll be living large - I know that seems a lifetime away but trust me it ain't. It'll be here in the blink of an eye, or so it feels looking back.

Good luck whatever you do.

[extreeski]

I agree, don't dump the career too soon. Lawyers make bank and you won't have to ski bum it. A good friend just graduated from Lewis and Clark Law and is already doing research for lawyers at 50 bucks an hour. And that's the low end of the lawyer pay scale.

stick with it and you'll be buying yourself trips to La Grave, Verbier, Chile, and New Zealand. Without having to put it on the credit card. Its a price to pay. I have student loans too. Granted a fraction of yours for teachers grad school. but they'll be paid off eventually.

Now get a job you dirtbag hottie.

[Yeti]

Isn't your third year of law school like ski bumming anyway?

Yes. Hope yours was as good as mine.

50 bucks an hour. And that's the low end of the lawyer pay scale.

Extree, want to tell my partners that? I could use a pay-doubling...

Damn, girlski, that's a lot of debt. Pay what you can while you can, and take it from there.

[TheDingleberry]

Bankruptcy is quite advisable if you cant get a high end sellout job.
$116k in loans (and this aint a mortgage with equity behind it) and a $35k job is not a good recipe for success. It'l take you another ten years just to dig out of that hole.

Heh. Ok Guy!

[Monique]

Like taking off my clothes for dirty and broke ski bums is going to get me ANYWHERE.

Maybe not, but don't give up trying!

The dollahs involved suck but I think buying an education is like buying a house, it just takes a bit longer for the asset to appreciate. The only way to survive the shock is to refuse to think about the total amount of money owed. Yep, it's all about denial. Focus on the monthly payment, which actually isn't too bad, although it does mean deferring for a year if you really want to ski bum. (I'd say go and be happy, as it may be a few more years before you have the chance to ski full time again!)

In any case, I agree the time will go quickly between now and when your loans are paid. But I don't agree with the notion you should prostitute yourself to a job you don't enjoy in order to pay them. You are one smart and pursuasive woman and once you pass the bar you will have shown prospective employers you can finish whatever you start. Then you can treat the degree like a liberal arts thang and look into a huge range of jobs that do spark your interest. They may not use your technical legal knowledge but they'll use the writing, analytical and communication skills you developed in law school.

Practicing law seems like it gives you the option of starving in the public sector or sweat-shopping in the private sector, in either case working at something you don't care about for 50-70 hours a week. But there are lots of jobs in private companies and nonprofit organizations that pay pretty well (yep even in nonprofit), line up with your values, have huge growth opportunity, will be a lot more rewarding than fakin' it in the legal world, and will at least let you ski 60+ days a year...not ski bum level for sure but not chopped liver either. And if anyone suggests these jobs are hard to get, you may be right, but you haven't met girlski!

Don't forget you know at least one wee lassie who's pulled it off....

[grrrr]

Just to rub it in, I'd like to tell you that my undergrad credits cost $11.50 each during my freshman year, with a maximum semester cost of $200.













Of course that didn't qualify me for any job other than "lift attendant".

[Rusty Nails]

I thought I gave you advice/plan for this earlier this year. There are so many ways to make a decent living using your degree with flex hours (for instance, counsel for WA Dept of Health can -- after a 6-12 month probationary period -- work 4 tens and eventually work two days/week from home). Or, you could join Rach, Joe, and others and work with me!!! Heh. I'd love bossing you around...

Another idea -- find a degree program that leads to a public interest job that will pay off all your student loans (not knowing how much you have) and stay in school.

[lemon boy]

heh- it would be really weird for a guy with "Girl, let us freak" in his sigline to be your boss.

[MakersTeleMark]

First, your student loan debt is non-dischargable in bankruptcy (since 1998):

11 U.S.C. sec. 523(a)(8) - You should be able to look that one up in a jiffy.

Second, it does suck, but it is the price you pay for what you can do with your education. I've been there, am still there, and while I don't like it, I feel that by assuming educational debt, I've put myself in a position to really sculpt the kind of life that I would like. Sure, things are meager now, but in time it will be well worth it. After you start really having an impact on other people's lives you will get the rewards that make up for the sufferfest you just endured (well, add in the bar exam).

P.M. me if you want to chat a bit more about it.

[Core Shot]

First, your student loan debt is non-dischargable in bankruptcy (since 1998):

11 U.S.C. sec. 523(a)(8) - You should be able to look that one up in a jiffy.

Second, it does suck, but it is the price you pay for what you can do with your education. I've been there, am still there, and while I don't like it, I feel that by assuming educational debt, I've put myself in a position to really sculpt the kind of life that I would like. Sure, things are meager now, but in time it will be well worth it. After you start really having an impact on other people's lives you will get the rewards that make up for the sufferfest you just endured (well, add in the bar exam).

P.M. me if you want to chat a bit more about it.

Nice informative post from "Frozen Cave Man Lawyer" Unnnnggghhhh

[mrw]

a life of sharp toothed shysterhood awaits

[assgasorgrass]

[QUOTE=MakersTeleMark]First, your student loan debt is non-dischargable in bankruptcy (since 1998):

11 U.S.C. sec. 523(a)(8) - You should be able to look that one up in a jiffy.
QUOTE]


the way I read it, if you meet the three prongs of the Brunner test, student loans are dischargable.

11 U.S.C. § 523(a)(8).

5. In United Student Aid Funds, Inc. v. Pena (In re Pena), 155 F.3d 1108, 1114 (9th Cir. 1998), the Ninth Circuit adopted the three part "undue hardship" test first established by the Second Circuit in Brunner v. New York State Higher Educ. Servs. Corp. (In re Brunner), 831 F.2d 395, 396 (2d Cir. 1987). To satisfy the Brunner test, the debtor has the burden of proving:


(1) that the debtor cannot maintain, based on current income and expenses, a "minimal" standard of living for herself and her dependents if forced to repay the loans; (2) that additional circumstances exist indicating that this state of affairs is likely to persist for a significant portion of the repayment period of the student loans; and (3) that the debtor has made good faith efforts to repay the loans.

Brunner, 831 F.2d at 396.

Here is an interesting read: http://www.ce9.uscourts.gov/web/bap..../?opendocument