'14/'15 Magic Shitshow aka Everybody's an Expert thread

[RustyGroomer]

RG always mentions about the conception of the mountain as not having reliable grooming/easier trails.

Somebody listens to me! I don't even care if it's Dexter. Stoke!!

[GOB_Bluth]

Somewhere someplace...possibly on the company boat.... GOB nods approvingly.

[dangur]

A couple of caveats before I add my 2 cents:

1) I've never done any trail work at Magic, so I have NO clout when it comes to making suggestions, and I understand that. (I plan on contributing this fall though).
2) My understanding of the off-the-map lines at Magic was current about 2 seasons ago, so what I'm suggesting may already exist and I just don't know it.

Now for the $0.02:

I'd like to open up some treed zones that take serious effort to get into and out of, and that also have some decent vertical to them. By serious effort, I'm talking a 5 - 20 min hike with your skis on your shoulder, sort of the way Mitersill used to be at Cannon. I've skied a couple of spots at Magic that almost fit this description, but they don't have a ton of vertical. However, I've been eyeing one location in particular that looks like a good candidate for this kind of thing (and could also be combined with some promising real estate below it for that 2-stager Prest-O Change-O plan some of you have mentioned.

IMO Magic does a great job attracting people who can rip in the woods - maybe too good a job. It seems like on a powder day, spots that held fresh lines till well into the afternoon just a couple years ago are tracked out by mid morning these days. I think that having some zones that require an extra bit of effort to ski will turn some traffic away, and stay fresher longer. Personally I'd rather get 3 or 4 semi-earned, high-quality runs than ski twice as many tracked out runs straight off the lift.

But like I said, I'm not too well plugged in to the group you all have going on here, so maybe this already exists or maybe you already have plans to make it happen. If the latter, I'd love to lend a hand developing it. Otherwise, let me know if this sounds good to you guys. Maybe we can get this ball rolling come trail work season. I'll be out there, anyway...

[Vt-Freeheel]

^^^funneh

[Timberridge]

Could the whole mtn just be clear cut into one big snowfield? Magic would get like $1MM for the wood, and you'd save $ because you wouldn't need trail maps.

[kokomas]

Looking forward to seeing you all this weekend. Two weeks is too long to be away

[Magicsnowboard]

Right, and I would say that generally ski areas that include gladed areas on maps definitely maintain them (sometimes to the point that they no longer are what I would think of as glades--more like a trail with a few trees). I'm thinking specifically of when Mt. Snow put 'The Trials' on their map (which kind of ruined that general part of the North Face)--they definitely cleared quite a bit, which would've been great if they'd done it without putting the glade on the map (and so guaranteeing thousands of skiers would ski it). I know of some other places that have done similar.

I would also just question, generally, whether many people look at the trail map and decide to ski or not ski an area based on marked glades. Maybe some people do that (and every little bit helps, obviously), but to my mind the general PR challenge (people knowing we're open, etc.) is more important, and possibly related to that is what RG always mentions about the conception of the mountain as not having reliable grooming/easier trails. My guess would be that relative to marked glades the other things are far more important.

Please put me down for three of the Full blown GLaidz t-shirts.

I looked at the trail map eight years ago and it looked like Magic was more flat and boring then Bromely. It took me four more years to actually come by. The trail maps matters.

[Dexter Rutecki]

If there were more gladed runs marked that map would have looked better? You would've tried it sooner? I'm not sure how a trail map could indicate steepness unless you put in topo lines, which I guess would be unique. (I've hardly ever looked at the trail map, and have never seen Bromley's except probably when walking or skiing by it--maybe I'm the exception, but in 40 years of skiing I've never gone or not gone somewhere based on a trail map. I'd still say addressing RG's points would be more effective in attracting people, and I'm not saying that just to make him feel good. But if the consensus is that adding trails to the map will make a difference then go for it. Website snow reports that are current and mean something--now that is something I could see making a difference.)

[Magicsnowboard]

If there were more gladed runs marked that map would have looked better? You would've tried it sooner? (I've hardly ever looked at the trail map, and never seen Bromley's except probably when walking or skiing by it--maybe I'm the exception, but in 40 years of skiing I've never gone or not gone somewhere based on a trail map. I'd still say addressing RG's points would be more effective in attracting people, and I'm not saying that just to make him feel good. But if the consensus is that adding trails to the map will make a difference then go for it. Website snow reports that are current and mean something--now that is something I could see making a difference.)

Absolutely, I would have come sooner. Maybe I'm strange but the trail map is always the first thing I look at. Now I know better and seek out the ones with shitty trail maps! It's also not just the glades but showing the steep stuff as steep and the mellow stuff as mellow.

For three seasons I skied Stratton and all I knew about Magic was that locals skied there because it was cheap and that you needed a poncho because the lift drips grease. Now I'm much smarter and know locals work weekends and ski Stratton midweek and the lift only drips on you in the rain.

There are of course many things that could be done better. The map is just one of them and I agree probably not the top priority. However, it's worth reevaluating when the hill eventually run out of trail maps.

[Dexter Rutecki]

Ha, I forgot about actual trail maps and was only thinking of the signs (which I recall making it appear that some trees are very widely spaced when I don't think that's the case). Well, I'm obviously the wrong person on this one since I've made trips to ski areas across the continent and overseas without ever looking at the area trail maps (vert and snowfall stats I pay attention to). (Now that I think about it, I even moved to Jackson without ever having seen its map--my only concern back then was buying a highway atlas so I could find the place.)

I guess if next season is like this one we could also have the black chair deleted from the map...

[DoWork]

IMO Magic does a great job attracting people who can rip in the woods - maybe too good a job. It seems like on a powder day, spots that held fresh lines till well into the afternoon just a couple years ago are tracked out by mid morning these days.

Well that's the way things have been going and thank heavens for that. Skier visits are way up and have stayed there this year thanks to the snow and the general amazing condition of the hill.

FWIW cleanup is easy, it's just taking out the invasive box elder and deadfall. The natural spacing at Magic is perfect. It's staying ahead of the skier visit thrash threshold that's becoming a little bit of an issue but I'm not worried at all with how much the tree skiing stoke has been built up this season. There's still plenty to go around ( we were still skiing fresh a week+ after storms this year )and more planned for every year- some obvious and some not so obvious. I'm excited for the summer. Big new emphasis on education in the pre-talk too, it's gotten a little disorganized in the past so we are going to have some more structure and information for sure. You should come out! We'd love to have you either on skis or with loppers that's for sure!

In any case though, Magic still has all those things you're worried about in mind and people never stop brainstorming. Trust me. I have a big fat list but we need people to make it all work. Your concern would absolutely be best served by becoming a part of the solution though, and IMO it's really cool that we have even that option.


I am 100% with RG & Dex though about the absolute need for reliable beginner skiing and a better learning area though. The stuff we're doing is easy to me, that is huge and needs to have a solid plan going into next year.

[RustyGroomer]

Wind speed is "Good" today according to the report. I love the place but this made me laugh. Can't we just throw a number up? 5? 4?

"WIND SPEED: good"

[MMP]

Friggin Magic

[jgb@etree]

Not to beat a dead horse, but Magic misses out on soooo much revenue by not having a functioning beginner area or ski school. I've probably spent about $1500 at Bromley this year between lessons, lift tix & food/bev. We've also had guests with 1 or more children stay with us on 3-4 weekends which probably represents another $2k of revenue that went to Bromley instead of Magic. So call it $3500 in lost revenue that my family & guests would have brought to the mountain. Now lets assume there are 20 other regular/semi regular Magic families with smaller kids in the same situation and that represents approx. $70k in lost revenue from the pockets of folks who already love Magic and are committed to the hill. Then you have to consider all of the skiers that just sit on their wallets and drive right by on their way to Bromley, Stratton and Okemo.

[buttahflake]

y'all should focus more on advertising, people in Ludlow still have no idea that place exists.
spend money on a short TV spot and hit up the two local radio stations, it's weird how many people still listen to Q107
and yeah, fix the fucking Black Chair, it looks so fucking ghetto with a seasons worth of snow sitting on it.

[Magicsnowboard]

Not to beat a dead horse, but Magic misses out on soooo much revenue by not having a functioning beginner area or ski school. I've probably spent about $1500 at Bromley this year between lessons, lift tix & food/bev. We've also had guests with 1 or more children stay with us on 3-4 weekends which probably represents another $2k of revenue that went to Bromley instead of Magic. So call it $3500 in lost revenue that my family & guests would have brought to the mountain. Now lets assume there are 20 other regular/semi regular Magic families with smaller kids in the same situation and that represents approx. $70k in lost revenue from the pockets of folks who already love Magic and are committed to the hill. Then you have to consider all of the skiers that just sit on their wallets and drive right by on their way to Bromley, Stratton and Okemo.

What's wrong with Magic's beginner terrain? Take the lift to the highest point on the mountain. Carefully examine the double black diamond cliff riddled run as you ride the chair, don’t worry this isn't scary. After falling off the steep icy exit ramp, proceed down a long straight away. Ignore skiers passing you at 25mph. DO NOT GO STRAIGHT, instead, make an inconspicuous hairpin left turn, easily recognizable by the inevitable massive ice patch. After falling on the ice, make a right into the tiny rock section (our apologies snowmaking on this section is on a money hold). Once through the rock field DO NOT go down the nice easy groomer. Instead, follow the easiest way down sign. Extra points if you air out the massive water bar. Proceed to the next sharp turn. Do not go too fast as this area has no drainage and is known to have massive holes in coverage/ice patches. Inevitably, you are now alone (early season no expert skier would dare go this way), proceed as normal. Continue down what might actually be considered a beginner run, this is a trick to boost your confidence. Proceed to hit a minimum of 10 water bars. Great you've made it! Proceed to your car and drive directly to either 1) Bromely, 2) Stratton, or 3) Okemo, never return to Magic again.

[MMP]

Marketing Obstacle #1, We are open
Marketing Obstacle #2 Its only good when it dumps, and then only for experts.

One ad, 2 birds, one stone.

The time to plan for that from a budget standpoint is now. (get it? "budget"? ahahahahahah)

[MMP]

What's wrong with Magic's beginner terrain? Take the lift to the highest point on the mountain. Carefully examine the double black diamond cliff riddled run as you ride the chair, don’t worry this isn't scary. After falling off the steep icy exit ramp, proceed down a long straight away. Ignore skiers passing you at 25mph. DO NOT GO STRAIGHT, instead, make an inconspicuous hairpin left turn, easily recognizable by the inevitable massive ice patch. After falling on the ice, make a right into the tiny rock section (our apologies snowmaking on this section is on a money hold). Once through the rock field DO NOT go down the nice easy groomer. Instead, follow the easiest way down sign. Extra points if you air out the massive water bar. Proceed to the next sharp turn. Do not go too fast as this area has no drainage and is known to have massive holes in coverage/ice patches. Inevitably, you are now alone (early season no expert skier would dare go this way), proceed as normal. Continue down what might actually be considered a beginner run, this is a trick to boost your confidence. Proceed to hit a minimum of 10 water bars. Great you've made it! Proceed to your car and drive directly to either 1) Bromely, 2) Stratton, or 3) Okemo, never return to Magic again.

throw em in the deep end!

[makimono]

Hey at least they spelled Wizard right on the trail map!

There's a shit load of things wrong with Magic....trying to list it all on the internets is kinda futile (new toilet seat)....but I still love the place and I'll do what I can year round to help it out.

IMO the best part of Magic is all of you, the people that love the place too, work hard to make it awesome and rip the shit out of it when the snow falls.

[RustyGroomer]

Wizzard lookz great to me herez? Vertago lookz good too.

[DoWork]

I must not have looked at the map recently.


That can't be real. It doesn't even list the on-map tree runs

[makimono]

Haha I didn't even notice Vertago...2005 wuz a good year

[RustyGroomer]

If you guys think things are messed up now. You should have been around for this era. 1st thing to come to mind is when they ripped the railing off the stairs in the lodge for the "rail jam". Still gone. Literally close to fist throwing daily. It's run like a fine tuned clock nowadays comparatively.

[Aldo]

Wind speed - good

Frostbite series in the parking lot?

[Aldo]

I get that in order to have an advertising campaign you need to have an advertising dept and budget. But to what buttur says is just painful and we all know it and have heard it before .

" magic is open? "

Locals living in plain sight of it have no idea the place is open....