Marking the last point seen (LPS)

[WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot]

i heard an interesting discussion the other night at an informal info. session between a forecaster for Chugach NF Avy. Info. Center and joeskier: the gist of the joe's question was .... how useful is it to mark the last point an avy victim was seen with a wand; not hiking upslope to mark the LPS, but if you were above the slide and could get to the LPS, quickly mark that spot with a wand and begin a signal search; if i understood correctly, Forecaster felt it would burn up valuable rescue time to stop and mark the LPS; just throwing this out there for folks to chew on and apologies to Forecaster if im misrepresenting their response GO

[phallic-menace]

When I took ast 1 we were taught to drop a glove, helmet or something similar. To my inexperienced mind it seems pretty logical. I can't see how not taking the time to roughly mark the Last point seen is a bad thing. Provided of course everyone in the rescue party is aware it was placed and isn't a visual clue.

[covert]

Situationally dependent for a professional, best practice for recreational skiers,

I can see skipping this step in some circumstances, but if you wind up having to probe due to a beacon/brain malfunction, that last seen point could be a valuable trajectory reference.

[thewon]

It's good practice, IMO.

[summit]

What covert said

[cascade pinner]

So many variables....who knows for your situation?

Maybe better to learn how to make effective decisions and implement them....instead of memorizing a cookbook

[Foggy_Goggles]

Obviously I see the point, but I'm not sure how I'd do that in a small group rescue senario. Firstly, if I had a strong signal/primary search from my safe point, I may not be going to the point last seen. Secondly, unless I start carrying something with me for this purpose (like surveyer tape on a stick) I'm not sure I've got something in my pack to sacrifice for this purpose. Thirdly, I'm not sure this is the best us of my time. If you've got more resources/people I could see having someone do this.

Basically, I'm trying to keep companion rescue as simply as possible.

1. assess hazard/hangfire
2. assign leader
3. how many missing?
4. call for help if help could be helpful (recco close by etc.)
5. beacons to search
6. visual clues/ primary search
7. alert to strong signal/ visual clues
8. secondary such
9. pinpoint search
10. probes
11. strategic shoveling
12. patient care

I'm not sure I'm delaying any of those steps to mark the last point seen.

[jono]

I think that list focuses the question for me, and in turn highlights that most items in the list are technically optional or might get very little attention depending on the situation. We trade time up front when the odds of that helping warrant it. If I ski down to the LSP and see a boot sticking out of the debris I'm going to skip several things.

So ideally I wouldn't delay anything to mark a point I might not need to remember, but of course it's only valuable if things aren't ideal. And you have to insert it somewhere between 1-4 but you don't know if it's useful until somewhere between 5-11. It's a cost in time and it weighs against the risk of needing those few seconds; what does it gain you if you discover you need that reference to reset your search?

All that is mostly a +1 for "it depends" but a few things I might weigh in deciding are:

Is visibility falling (sunset?) such that the reference might be more useful shortly?

Can a searcher be spared to do it?

Am I (or someone else) going to travel to that point anyway?

I can't imagine carrying something for the purpose, but a trash bag from lunch seems like it might be available.

[thewon]

I .

I can't imagine carrying something for the purpose, but a trash bag from lunch seems like it might be available.

How bout a stick or branch or a big chunk of snow or ice, all things that might be available. marking the spot may not have to use an object at all. use your eyes and pick something of a site line.

[summit]

As this place is indexed by a lot of search engines, for organized rescue, two crossed flags mark the LSP.

[old goat]

So many variables....who knows for your situation?

Maybe better to learn how to make effective decisions and implement them....instead of memorizing a cookbook

The reason you memorize a cookbook (if you weren't so snarky you would call it a checklist) is because in the emotion of a disaster it organizes your thinking and actions and keeps you from omitting key steps. After resuscitating 100's of patients I still go back to ABC. How have you learned "how to make better decisions and implement them"?