Police Behaving Badly

[Bromontana]

1080 - Did the police know the criminal background of the Baton Rouge victim before they shot him at point blank range while detaining him flat on his back? I thought they were responding to a generic MWAG call and it escalated very quickly.

It's pretty rare for the trajectory on a justified shooting to be perpendicular to the ground. That normally happens during executions.

[1080Rider]

Blue friends?

Some, not many, a majority of my close friends have been made from years of playing footy here in town. Occupations run the gambit but few are employed by the gov't.

Actually, I prolly have more friends working on the side of the criminals

[PNWbrit]

It was a rhetorical question. Numb nuts.

[1080Rider]

1080 - Did the police know the criminal background of the Baton Rouge victim before they shot him at point blank range while detaining him flat on his back? I thought they were responding to a generic MWAG call and it escalated very quickly.

It's pretty rare for the trajectory on a justified shooting to be perpendicular to the ground. That normally happens during executions.

I don't know what they knew when they showed up, I don't know the facts. But, this guy reportedly sold cd's there for years, I would be shocked if they hadn't had contact w/ the guy in the past or that they knew his record before they showed up.

Putting that aside, the video I have seen is fucked up in many ways. Shooting a guy when your partner is that close is a terrible idea. The officer could have just as easily killed his partner. Going hands on w/ a guy who reportedly had a gun, was a terrible idea. Shooting him after you "feel" the gun on him seems to be unjustified. There was a report he had a gun, why was he more of a threat while on the ground, subdued, than when he was standing there and had free access to the gun?

I think these two guys are going to be prosecuted federally and will end up in prison, I firmly believe the officer in the Mini shooting will too. And I will add, any worthwhile officer feels the same. If you think a majority of officers think they should get off, after ALL of the evidence is presented, you're wrong.

[1080Rider]

It was a rhetorical question. Numb nuts.

Why do you have to be condescending? I got that you weren't seeking a response but I gave you one anyways... I get it you don't like me, fine, I'm still not going to be a dick to you.

[stfu&gbtw]

I think these two guys are going to be prosecuted federally and will end up in prison, I firmly believe the officer in the Mini shooting will too.

An enormous part of the problem is that, by and large, this does not happen. Not sure how complete it is, but Wikipedia shows a list of 14 American police officers who were convicted of murder, ever. One case dates back to 1912. And that's what many of these cases are - no doubt. If you handcuff someone and shoot them, you're guilty of murder. If you shoot an unarmed person in the back and kill them, you're guilty of murder. Period.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catego...cted_of_murder

[Ski to Be]

I don't have a problem with people returning fire, and this is not an issue about specifics. Cops want to randomly kill brothers? Don't be surprised when brothers start randomly shooting cops. Maybe that will finally motivate "the vast majority" of the police force to exercise some internal control over these "few bad apples" and this shit will stop happening. Ball's in the cops court.

I can't see how escalating violent retribution is ever a good thing. Now cops will be even more itchy with the trigger. Also I don't believe you can ever 100 percent clean up the bad apples. What can be done is having our justice system appropriately punish the bad cops. This lack of punishment and slaps on the wrist from the justice system are what caused the LA riots and most of the others in this country.

[stfu&gbtw]

I can't see how escalating violent retribution is ever a good thing. Now cops will be even more itchy with the trigger. Also I don't believe you can ever 100 percent clean up the bad apples. What can be done is having our justice system appropriately punish the bad cops. This lack of punishment and slaps on the wrist from the justice system are what caused the LA riots and most of the others in this country.

I basically agree with you. This is not the way it should have to go. But in the absence of alternatives, it's asinine to think that the black community won't eventually retaliate. It's not on black people to show greater restraint in the face of being harassed, assaulted, and murdered by their public servants - it's on the CJS and LE to figure out how to make this shit stop happening. And now the clock is ticking... If the cops didn't realize it before, I sure as hell bet they do now.

[1080Rider]

An enormous part of the problem is that, by and large, this does not happen. Not sure how complete it is, but Wikipedia shows a list of 14 American police officers who were convicted of murder, ever. One case dates back to 1912. And that's what this is - no doubt. If you handcuff someone and shoot them, you're guilty of murder. Nothing else.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catego...cted_of_murder

Yeah, I don't know what to think about that. The cases are tried to juries, people just like you, me, our neighbors. In the end 12 people decided that they didn't commit murder. Is it that other officers lied in their reports? Were there no independent witnesses? I dunno. Lots of factors and the percentage is very low. Is it that we're second guessing someone's split-second decision in a high stress situation and people don't want to condemn an officer for that? I don't know...

Maybe in this time of body cams and iphones, the evidence against officers is stronger.

[stfu&gbtw]

Yeah, I don't know what to think about that. The cases are tried to juries, people just like you, me, our neighbors. In the end 12 people decided that they didn't commit murder. Is it that other officers lied in their reports? Were there no independent witnesses? I dunno. Lots of factors and the percentage is very low. Is it that we're second guessing someone's split-second decision in a high stress situation and people don't want to condemn an officer for that? I don't know...

Maybe in this time of body cams and iphones, the evidence against officers is stronger.

So why would you assume that with the recent increase in availability of evidence, what we're really seeing is an uptick in behavior, and not just an uptick in documentation? You know what's different today, right? Cops can't hide this shit the way they used to. I'd even think it's possible that overall instances of unwarranted cop-on-civilian harassment and assault could be down, but now we get to find out every time one of these insecure pricks tries to go RoboCop on somebody. This isn't how it's meant to be, and it's incredibly ironic that this is how the 2nd Amendment is existing as a part of life in modern America.

[FLS]

"The cases are tried to juries, people just like you, me, our neighbors."

Ever hear of a "Grand Jury" ?

[Dantheman]

In bigger cities officers "walk the beat" and in places like NYC they have the freedom to randomly fuck w/ people. It seems they tend to fuck w/ minorities more in places like that.

A few years ago there was a Daily Show segment about stop-and-frisk. They interviewed two panels of ~20 people, one white and the other minorities (mostly black and latino IIRC). They asked each panel if they had ever been stopped an frisked. None of the white people raised their hands, all of the brown folks did.

[stfu&gbtw]

Funny how the same CJS that never seems to meet a black dude who shouldn't be indicted for Possession w/Intent, consistently figures that cops shouldn't be indicted for assault.

[1080Rider]

"The cases are tried to juries, people just like you, me, our neighbors."

Ever hear of a "Grand Jury" ?

Yes. Are you implying that prosecutor's are in on it too? That they present the evidence in a way that the grand jury won't return an indictment? Also only half of the states use grand juries. The feds use grand juries, and those guys have like a 90% conviction rate, I don't think they pull any punches in grand juries, they go after the indictment.

I was talking about cases where an officer is charged with a crime, goes to trial and a jury returns a verdict of "not guilty."

[1080Rider]

A few years ago there was a Daily Show segment about stop-and-frisk. They interviewed two panels of ~20 people, one white and the other minorities (mostly black and latino IIRC). They asked each panel if they had ever been stopped an frisked. None of the white people raised their hands, all of the brown folks did.

That is not surprising, our country is really weird. I don't think we use "the beat" or "stop-and-frisk "as much out west. We don't in our city and I haven't seen much caselaw out of seattle on the subject. Back east, in the big cities, it is just the way they do business. I have very little experience with it and it seems super thuggish to me. Walking down the street and the brownshirts want to check your pockets? Seems shitty to me...

[neufox47]

Then you live in a pretty fucked up state... here, we have sentencing guidelines, you get the same amount of time for the same crimes. Did you wait around to find out what happened in their cases? Did you know their criminal histories, which determines what sort of bond they get? I take it you don't have a long criminal history, that means your not a threat to the community and you are likely to show up for future court hearings, thus, a judge would likely release you, just like he/she would do to a minority.

Dude, almost no one who studies US criminal justice believes that blacks are treated the same as whites. Do some research. Blacks are stopped at a higher rate, arrested at a higher rate, offered worse plea deals, and given longer sentences when convicted.

[riser4]

"The cases are tried to juries, people just like you, me, our neighbors."

Ever hear of a "Grand Jury" ?

FIFYFOC. That color does not show up so well on the blue background.

[Game Over]

Dude, almost no one who studies US criminal justice believes that blacks are treated the same as whites. Do some research. Blacks are stopped at a higher rate, arrested at a higher rate, offered worse plea deals, and given longer sentences when convicted.

I'll have to find it - but I was just reading how it's the poor who are stopped at a higher rate, arrested at a higher rate, offered worse plea deals, and given longer sentences when convicted. And blacks make up a disproportionately amount of the poor hence the stats. It was trying to make the case that it is a class issue not a race issue.

[1080Rider]

Dude, almost no one who studies US criminal justice believes that blacks are treated the same as whites. Do some research. Blacks are stopped at a higher rate, arrested at a higher rate, offered worse plea deals, and given longer sentences when convicted.

Right, and some states have tried to remedy that. Like I said, WA has sentencing guidelines, a judge cannot go above or below a standard range when sentencing on crimes.

Take the stanford rapist, he got off w/ no sanction, that could not happen in WA. At the same time, there was a black man down south who was convicted of nearly the same crime and got a far longer sentence. The judge in the south (might have been Tenn) may have been compelled to give the black guy a stiffer sentence. People on my facepage were up in arms about the disparity but there are like 1000 factors that go into it, you can't just say it was all "race" based.

[FLS]

FIFYFOC. That color does not show up so well on the blue background.

Thx.

[My Pet Powder Goat]

Yes. Are you implying that prosecutor's are in on it too? That they present the evidence in a way that the grand jury won't return an indictment?."

Do some research about how the prosecutor for the Ferguson shooting actually laid out a case AGAINST Brown, the victim of the crime during the grand jury against the officer, an unheard of and deceptive tactic.
Prosecutors are part of the CJS. they are part of a team that includes LEO, and work closely with officers. Is it a surprise that they cover the LEO'S ass?

[Bromontana]

An enormous part of the problem is that, by and large, this does not happen. Not sure how complete it is, but Wikipedia shows a list of 14 American police officers who were convicted of murder, ever. One case dates back to 1912. And that's what many of these cases are - no doubt. If you handcuff someone and shoot them, you're guilty of murder. If you shoot an unarmed person in the back and kill them, you're guilty of murder. Period.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catego...cted_of_murder

Yeah, I don't know what to think about that. The cases are tried to juries, people just like you, me, our neighbors. In the end 12 people decided that they didn't commit murder. Is it that other officers lied in their reports? Were there no independent witnesses? I dunno. Lots of factors and the percentage is very low. Is it that we're second guessing someone's split-second decision in a high stress situation and people don't want to condemn an officer for that? I don't know...

Maybe in this time of body cams and iphones, the evidence against officers is stronger.

1080 - What you are not comprehending here is the relevance of statistics. Go through this thought experiment and then overlay your conclusions on top of what STFU just said. See if the puzzle pieces fit.

Police kill a bit over 1,000 people a year in the USA, ballpark estimate. Over the last 140 or so years approximately 14 have been convicted of M1. That equates to one every decade. Currently, that equates to 1 conviction per every 10,000 police killings. I consider a murder conviction to represent complete failure of Law Enforcement - you can't make a bigger mistake than taking a life without just cause. That 'failure rate' is 0.0001 or 0.01%. Remember we are talking about humans here. Flawed humans. And yet, police in America maintain a conviction rate for killings of a fraction of a percent. Their record is statistically perfect, despite the reality we know that humans are deeply flawed animals.

Absent systemic failure within the CJS to hold officers accountable for mistakes, how do you explain the fact that US police - legally speaking - have operated with a near perfect record with regard to extrajudicial killings for over a century?

In theory, yes. But in reality police obstruct evidence, cut & paste audio/video to fit the narrative, and generally just don't act with transparency in matters involving dash/body-cams. Discretion is up to the chief, and corrupt chiefs continue to suppress video that implicates officers. Mayors, DAs and other high ranking officials as well. Regarding civilian video, fuck yes it makes a big difference. State controlled video? I don't think it's worth the fiscal outlay considering how it's manipulated.

[MTT]

Last night a person or Persons attacked Police who were out enforce, for a Protest. = And yea that's some heinous shit.
I find it interesting that the discussion (All Over the Internet) has turned to all the nasty shit police do to people.

You cannot justify shooting police like that. But it's naive to say there is not a reason.

Looks like the lid is gonna blow off this pressure cooker.

Just imagine if there were Video posted on the Internet of EVERY POLICE SHOOTING.
How about Video made public of every arrest where the suspect was hospitalized?

Most people would loose their shit if they saw what goes down every single day.

[Buster Highmen]

Watts 1965.

[MTT]

Last night a person or Persons attacked Police who were out enforce, for a Protest. = And yea that's some heinous shit.
I find it interesting that the discussion (All Over the Internet) has turned to all the nasty shit police do to people.

You cannot justify shooting police like that. But it's naive to say there is not a reason.

Looks like the lid is gonna blow off this pressure cooker.

Just imagine if there were Video posted on the Internet of EVERY POLICE SHOOTING.
How about Video made public of every arrest where the suspect was hospitalized?

Most people would loose their shit if they saw what goes down every single day.

To add, we don't see much about it today, but /Philando Castile did not even have a broken tail light.

If we don't start doing something about police randomly pulling people over, detaining, confiscating money. Then it will just get worse.