K Chute Slide

[PNWbrit]

Summit,
Good post. I didn't say there was no place for S&R. As long as it is requested, I'm all for it. All the talk about making these guys pay for helis, and $20K/hr rescue teams, even though they asked to handle the situation themselves just really bothers me and is what got me fired up in this thread. Obviously the Copper Patrol blew the relay of information from the party, so why can't the Sherriff, S&R guys, etc acknowledge this, give these guys some credit, and set the facts straight? The hazing these guys have taken in the news is ridiculous.

BTW, is it me or does every news report about an avalanche start with a sherriff saying its not legal to ski a perfectly legal backcountry area, followed by a S&R spokesman talking about "extreme" avalanche danger when its usually no higher than mod/cons? I've seen that on several occasions this year.

Good to see your mood stabilization meds are kicking in.

[Blurred]

A quick question: If SAR justified the search, after the 'OK' call, because there was a second, unreported slide with potential victims, then why call off the search when the party that had already called to say they didn't need help was located? How was seeing them visually different from their own report to not need SAR? Why did finding that group suddenly mean that the search they were supposedly conducting for another group could be called off?

Coyotes are chewing on the limbs of the first 3 people caught in the slide as we speak.

[Blurred]

So, did the HUGEAIREXTREMEDAWG slay all of those chutes today? I'm patiently waiting Brett, or are you still pondering the insanity?

As I type this to you on my PDA, I don't think I'll get all the chutes today. Currently, I'm buried in S chute patiently waiting for Summit and the rest of SAR to come save me. I know Toby at Copper saw the slide and will be here shortly. I'm going to go surf some porn now, because in the event they don't save me, I want to die with a raging boner.

[Lone Star]

As I type this to you on my PDA, I don't think I'll get all the chutes today. Currently, I'm buried in S chute patiently waiting for Summit and the rest of SAR to come save me. I know Toby at Copper saw the slide and will be here shortly. I'm going to go surf some porn now, because in the event they don't save me, I want to die with a raging boner.

Awww, man, sorry to rain on your parade, but the Heroes all left-- I told them that I was out and safe... and they didn't know anybody else was still up there!

[Blurred]

Awww, man, sorry to rain on your parade, but the Heroes all left-- I told them that I was out and safe... and they didn't know anybody else was still up there!

I think a coyote is chewing on my boner!!!!

[Tippster]

No mentioned tracks in or out of the second slide. Lets all re-read the report and stay sane here. The SAR and SO insisted on blowing this shit up after repeated phonecalls. One wonders why the taxpayers' money is spent so "wisely" to such poor effect.

They better not charge those dudes one fucking penny. Unless the cops can PROVE they ducked a rope at Breck (and no - talking about it here doesn't count - it's hearsay) they better leave them alone as well.

Summit, what happened, to use your analogy, is that the Ambulance, the Laddertruck, and the goddamn drug taskforce commando vehicle were dispatched to a relative fenderbender AFTER all parties called and said they were fine. I hate the whole knee-jerk "don't you dare criticise..." bullshit. Potentially these guys and gals are heroes, but not inherently - they blew this shit outta proportion, not CMSummit by not appearing for a public browbeating. The powers that be were almost cheated out of masturbating openly and they didn't appreciate it.

[summit]

Can you hear that?

It's the sound of Coyotes feasting.

Don't forget to put viagra in your BC first aid kit

No mentioned tracks in or out of the second slide. Lets all re-read the report and stay sane here.

Yes there was. We've been over this. Per Copper Patrol, they radioed to their personell to inspect the area, saw the second slide with tracks in, no tracks out, but didn't pass along the second phone message from the group. Reread this thread (particularly my and cmsummit's posts) to understand why things happened the way they did.

[Blurred]

Can you hear that?

It's the sound of Coyotes feasting.

Don't forget to put viagra in your BC first aid kit


Yes there was. We've been over this. Per Copper Patrol, they radioed to their personell to inspect the area, saw the second slide with tracks in, no tracks out, but didn't pass along the second phone message from the group. Reread this thread (particularly my and cmsummit's posts) to understand why things happened the way they did.

But no tracks into the first slide eh? Interesting....

[summit]

I believe the first slide (Y chute) is the one they didn't realize they triggered. I don't know if it had tracks.

Per CAIC, CMSP thought the group was speaking about the Y slide when they said they triggered "a big slide" because it was much bigger.

When Copper looked though, apparently there were 2 slides.

[ill-advised strategy]

You are right it was their decision, but I can understand why the SAR guys were a little annoyed. I agree that a safety meeting would have helped, but during that hour SAR was mobilizing which led to them being even more annoyed when the skiers came out.

Seems to me that if false alarms are this annoying to one, one should not involve oneself in emergency response. Lashing out at non-victims because they weren't fucked up enough to justify what's essentially a potentially valuable training opportunity for SAR personnel, to me, shows a lack of perspective on their part. I find it offensive that anybody would be annoyed that cmsummit and his partners were functioning self-sufficiently and not in need of assistance rather than buried/hurt/dead.

That being said, of course there are plenty of occasions in emergency response where frustration like this comes up and must be managed properly: it's extremely bush-league to publicly express frustration at having to go on calls where, god-forbid, nobody's bleeding and they don't get to play with their toys.

[ill-advised strategy]

I just want to be left the fuck alone.

You tell 'em. It's a sad thing that we're living in such a police state mentality that the risks you decide to expose yourself to in the BC somehow automaticly become somebody else's business.

[Tippster]

I believe the first slide (Y chute) is the one they didn't realize they triggered. I don't know if it had tracks.

Per CAIC, CMSP thought the group was speaking about the Y slide when they said they triggered "a big slide" because it was much bigger.

When Copper looked though, apparently there were 2 slides.

Wll it truly doesn't matter which chute slid FIRST or SECOND, because the bottom line is there was only ONE slide with tracks anywhere, and there happened to be three of them, and there were three people calling in saying "we're fine" and they repeated said phonecall 2 more times....

How exactly do you spell "Budget Justification" and "Media Whoring" again?

[FFP200]

BlurredElevens, it is quite clear that your ignorance will ensure your demise.

Karma will most likely find you laying in a debris field, partially burried, suffering from a debilitating spinal injury only to be rescued by a SAR group so you can spend the next 40 years laying in a nursing home wishing you had a good enough friend to put you out of your misery.

[Blurred]

BlurredElevens, it is quite clear that your ignorance will ensure your demise.

Karma will most likely find you laying in a debris field, partially burried, suffering from a debilitating spinal injury only to be rescued by a SAR group so you can spend the next 40 years laying in a nursing home wishing you had a good enough friend to put you out of your misery.

Let me die, 40 years with a bedpan isn't worth SARs heroics...

Go get stuffed........

JONG.

[summit]

EDIT: I missed something. The Breck patrollers mentioned this to me but I didn't think it was the case, but apparently it was. Someone called to say there were 3 confirmed burials. It is even in the CAIC report. I didnt notice it the first time I read it.

This would certainly explain why I was told there were 3 buried when someone called to tell me about it.

Confusion rose dramatically when some else reportedly called the Breckenridge Ski Patrol "confirming" 3 people were buried.

Well... just what do you expect to happen next?

Original party claims they are out of the field.
Someone else says there are three people buried (an entire group).
Tracks in, none out, two slides.
The course of action is CLEAR. You don't sit on your thumbs in that situation.

I kind of doubt this thread would have reached 1/3 of it's current length if I or someone else would have noticed this vital little fact early on.

Wll it truly doesn't matter which chute slid FIRST or SECOND, because the bottom line is there was only ONE slide with tracks anywhere, and there happened to be three of them, and there were three people calling in saying "we're fine" and they repeated said phonecall 2 more times...

If they triggered a slide, said they were OK, maybe they didnt put tracks into it (IE the first one).

The second message wasn't passed apparently, this is what has been said, so the people in charge didn't know the group called after the second slide, which did have tracks in, none out. SOP happens next, especially after the confirmed burial call.

I spoke with a couple of Breck patrollers today. They thought it was the right move based ont he available information.

You need to seriously reread some posts here becaus you are missing something even without the newly noted info because even Cmsummit thinks SAR made the correct decsision based on the information they had.

As far as I'm concerned SAR did the right thing giving the information they received from Copper Mtn. Ski Patrol.

How exactly do you spell "Budget Justification" and "Media Whoring" again?

Your characterization of SAR as glory seekers trying to justify their existance is completely wrong. You make it sound like SAR *wanted* to have that mission. Nothing could be further from the truth. If you think I sit around hoping my pager is going to go off, you are dead wrong. A string of profanity is the first thing out of my mouth when it goes off because it means bad things are happening.

If you are accusing SAR of media whoring you have no clue. For example, the guy who did virtually all the talking to the media at the March 24, Quandry slide was from the FIRE DEPARTMENT (he was assigned this role by SAR) and some people from the SO. Some FDs around here have two full time paid Public Information Officers. SAR's only (and volunteer) public information officer chose to go into the field that mission, not talk with the press.

The SKY mission probably cost SAR a good deal of money, which comes primarily from donations at fundraisers and from grants, not a being a budget item. Also, its not exactly good for morale, something very important in a volunteer organization, to always end up dropping everything for a mission that turns out to be bunk. You seem to think they were all stoked to go stand around a parking lot for a few hours... while better than going after bodies, it sucks for people who lost a ski day or income when they had to leave work. SAR gets lots of missions, far far more than they want (0). Nobody wants to be chasing ghosts OR bodies. If you ask anyone on SAR, they would emphatically tell you how much they would have preffered it if there had been sufficient information for the mission not to have happened at all!!!!!

Are you going to accuse Flight For Life and Breck Ski Patrol as well? They were there. How about CAIC?

I find it offensive that anybody would be annoyed that cmsummit and his partners were functioning self-sufficiently and not in need of assistance rather than buried/hurt/dead.

NOBODY was annoyed by this. Everyone on SAR was quite relieved that they were OK, that nobody was buried, injuried, or killed, and that nobody had to go into field. Anyone on SAR will tell you the best day you can have is when *everyone* is alive and well and gets to go home at the end of the day.

[Bunion 2020]

I don't post here much due to a lot of sophmoric bullshit that sometimes comes out of threads like this. In this case I would like to post a few thoughts and leave it at that.

CMsummit; You tried to do the right things after making some fuckups. You were man enough to post your mistakes here (you did leave a few parts of the story out) and explain how easy it is for things to get out of hand.

Dirk, lots of good SAR orgs. out there lots of wannabes as well.

Summit; you do come of kind of Rah Rah SAR!!! often...

To those who equate BC skiing with ducking a rope and skiing back to a lift to yo-yo that pitch again, you just don't get it but that ain't BC skiing. The land may be yours, the lifts belong to the corp. that paid for them, if their policy is "use the gate.... use the FUCKING GATE!"

Anyway.....

It was a great season for us in SW Montana, the upper area was open most days, we didn't run a single wreck from the Headwaters... again, we doubled our ski visits, and next year we won't have to hike so much. Now if we can only find a paid position for Mountainman and get him in a plus sign instead of being "the worlds worst lift op and proud of it"!

[lv2huck]

There was a joint venture between USFS, CAIC, A Basin Patrol and some other groups on Loveland Pass recently that asked bc users coming off the pass about their avi gear and knowledge. Only something like 20% of the skiers/riders had any gear at all. That is why SAR responds to all calls. Regardlss of whether is a body recovery, most of the idiots out there have no equipment. And what if these idiots come in on top of you in rowdy terrain, who picks up the pieces then?

[shera]

There was a joint venture between USFS, CAIC, A Basin Patrol and some other groups on Loveland Pass recently that asked bc users coming off the pass about their avi gear and knowledge. Only something like 20% of the skiers/riders had any gear at all. That is why SAR responds to all calls. Regardlss of whether is a body recovery, most of the idiots out there have no equipment. And what if these idiots come in on top of you in rowdy terrain, who picks up the pieces then?

We've been talking about that: http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=28123

Hmmm, maybe not a good idea hanging out below "rowdy" terrain. Doesn't sound much like a safe zone. That said, a retarded number of people were skiing the steep gullies last week. All at the same time. With all that traffice you worry less about slides though, pretty compacted or sluffed off...

[Jtoke]

I wonder why they don't care if you ski in the back country in any of the national forests, but if you ski in the BC by a resort it's a fine... I don't get it.

?...????It is not illegal unless you leave a resort by way of a closed area. I ride bc areas around Copper often. If someone's too lazy or weak to hike they should stay inbounds, where patrollers take on the risks themselves so the terrain is safe for others.