K Chute Slide

[Lonnie]

Even if they lose their jobs, they still have their lives. It's alot easier to get the first one back than the second. Glad you guys made it out OK.

L

[EastCoastSkiBum]

weather channel just had coverage of the slide. Holy shit did that looks scary!!

[robokill1981]

IMO police should not be arresting people for skiing.

How about ducking ropes to ski terrain that could potentially bury a road and innocent drivers if it slid big???

CMSummit I'm glad to hear you're ok and you aren't getting in much trouble. As LB just put it we are all guilty of skiing lines that might be a bit out of our comfort zone. Sometimes things work out and you are a hero in your TR or they don't and you get coverage on the weather channel. We are planning on skiing the S from the top of 5 if conditions permit before April 22nd. Let me know if you have interest in joining us...although we will be starting our skin at 8:30 not 1:00!

[gramps]

Glad to hear everyone's alright. Sounds like a scary time, made worse by all the SAR and media attention I'm sure.

[powstash]

Beal make a nice Randonée rope which would proabably be ideal for this: 30m rope @ 40g/m, takes minimal dynamic loading (enough for, say, falling/sliding in a crevasse, but not enough for a freefall) and is a very tight package. Picked one up for about £15 in Chamonix, think they're around $60 over there.

edg

Got mine from BackcountryOutlet.com for $25 last month. Sweet rope.

Glad you dudes are safe and sound.

[Graupel]

Glad everyone is OK.

CAIC's take [/don't shoot the messanger]

I suggest reading the entire report from Atkins. The part posted by Foggy_Goggles is just the last three paragraphs. There are some good lessons. I won't post it here, but you can find it at:

http://geosurvey.state.co.us/avalanc...44#Pk604062005

from a rescuer's perspective:

Search and Rescue groups are there to help you and your party in an emergency. The most important tool they have is information. In this case, they were hesitant to call off the search because they did not have enough information about the reporting party and their position relative to ALL the avalanche paths in the area. It's true that this caused needless use of rescue resources, which is a shame, but, in my opinion, that isn't even the primary concern. Safety of all parties is the primary concern.

It wasn't the case in this accident, but remember that your party may not be the only party in the area (or another area) that needs help. SAR needs to account for everyone, which is why they want names, locations, and health condition. If there is more than 1 party at risk, your position and condition will help rescuers prioritize their actions with the resources they have, responding to the most critical situation first. Witholding information could actually endanger others in another party or the rescuers themselves. Timely and accurate information is the foundation for successful rescues.


cmsummit, I'm glad everyone is OK. I admire your personal account and honesty in this thread too. It helps us all learn.

[Blurred]

Chad, glad you guys are ok. I was there during the whole ordeal, and there was definitely a sigh of relief from SAR and everyone else to have found you. I don't think you guys made the worst mistake in the world, but I hope you learned from it. Lots of new snow + dramatic temperature rise = bad news. I take it you were the guy with the Giro fullface, I pretty much wanted to get out of there by that time because the "self-important, haha, look at these 3 guys we caught attitude being exuded by SAR, ski patrol, media, etc was getting out of hand".

They turned it into a zoo, and you guys were just doing your thing. The avy danger was moderate with pockets of considerable. (probable) It wasn't a horrible decision, just a poor one, but the Ski Patrol douches were stoked to jump your shit, I know that. (IMHO)Those guys are more out there to stroke their own egos, nothing else. (i'm kinda biased against Copper patrol too though)

You guys shoulda lied, and said you went through the peak 7 gate.....that's what your discussion in the trees shoulda been. All of the chutes were skied yesterday, you weren't the only tracks. I personally think ducking a rope to areas accessable by a gate is okay, as long as you have your knowledge and equipment, and no dumbfuck gapers see you do it. That gate didn't exist last year when we did the Y, so I've done that too.

I have a goal to bang all those chutes in the next week when shit settles. If you'd like to go, let me know. -Brett



Also, this wouldn't have helped you guys in your case cause you guys woulda given your real names, and Breck woulda ran your names through their ticket scanning computers and they woulda busted you, but it's NOT illegal to duck a rope as long as you don't use the ski resorts chairs to get where you're going. IE-"we skinned up the mountain, go fuck yourself."

[Blurred]

Sick brah! Let us know how the insanity is when you "bang" all those low angled douched out overplayed extremo "backcountry" lines! SICK!

Go fuck yourself old man. How's the back doing?

[Brett's Anus]

Go fuck yourself old man. How's the back doing?

Oh, if you only knew, playa.

[summit]

Glad you are all OK.

I think it's lame you got ticketed. They should have gates at the top.

It sucks all my buddies ended up dropping everything to go on the potential rescue.

Luckily nobody was hurt.

Next time I guess you know to go ahead and own up right away.

Good to see everyone involved is alright. That is most important. Why would they get fired from copper mountain if the mountain or their jobs had nothing to do with this incident? They weren't working, the slide was not on Copper Mountain's terrain, and they did not cross any ropes or break any rules pertaining to Copper Mountain. Just curious.

Also, why didn't you dig your pit at the first staging zone? Yes, it's 25-28 degrees, but it will still give you an idea of what is lying underneath the top layer. You may have found the smoking gun right there and revisited your plan.

Exactly.

And good point.

the rescue thing can be pretty bad even if it is not illegal as in your case.
in a german board someone reported that he had to pay to be flown out only because he stayed with the avalanche victim(edit:after he had dug him out of course ) until rescue came and it had gotten dark.
( the buried victim was in the Alpine club and did not have to pay himself but the alpine club would not pay for the rescue of the friend. )

In the USA he wouldn't have to fly out if he was mentally competent.

SAR doesn't usually charge around here, but the helicopter company might.

Buy a SAR card! Support SAR and guarantee that you won't be charged if you are say in this SWCO County (note the visa mastercard logo ):

[cmsummit]

Lots of new snow + dramatic temperature rise = bad news.

I know. I completely underestimated the temperature rise throughout the day. Easy to do when you're standing up on Peak 8 at 13,000'. I was less concerned about the new snow as that side of the Tenmile has a tendency to get pretty wind scoured. But as I have learned, never under any circumstances, drop your guard. Damn it!

I take it you were the guy with the Giro fullface

Yep.

the Ski Patrol douches were stoked to jump your shit, I know that. (IMHO)Those guys are more out there to stroke their own egos, nothing else. (i'm kinda biased against Copper patrol too though)

You guys shoulda lied, and said you went through the peak 7 gate.....that's what your discussion in the trees shoulda been. All of the chutes were skied yesterday, you weren't the only tracks. I personally think ducking a rope to areas accessable by a gate is okay, as long as you have your knowledge and equipment, and no dumbfuck gapers see you do it. That gate didn't exist last year when we did the Y, so I've done that too.

I have a goal to bang all those chutes in the next week when shit settles. If you'd like to go, let me know. -Brett)

I know that's why there ended up being some "communication breakdown" on the second phone call. I mean, how do you misinterpret the second phone call: "Yeah Toby, these are the three guys that called you earlier about the slide we triggered in the K chute. Well, we're just calling to confirm that we are down, out of danger, and the three of us are ok."
According to SAR they never got word that we were still okay and that a second phone call to confirm our safety was never made or it wasn't "detailed enough". Bullshit! We couldn't have made it any more clearer to ski patrol that we were ok.
I found out later today, that while we were sitting in the woods, my brothers friend had actually made a call, directly after my brother got done talking with him, to SAR or Summit Cty Dispatch(not sure) that the three of us were out of danger and okay. A total of THREE fucking calls made on the status of our safety and they still thought that we could be in danger. What a crock of shit! I guess verbal confirmation is no good.

The peak 7 hike was closed down yesterday due to either the slab release on the east face or the fact that they wanted to save snow for the upcoming Powder Gay8 comps. Had it been open, we would have hiked that way.

My wife is a little freaked out about the whole ordeal and has told me that "you're never going in the bc again". She also knows that she's not gonna changed the man, and will eventually have to cave.

[robokill1981]

The peak 7 hike was closed down yesterday due to either the slab release on the east face or the fact that they wanted to save snow for the upcoming Powder Gay8 comps. Had it been open, we would have hiked that way.

The gate is in "ore bucket" not off the top of 7, but in the independence chair area.

[Blurred]

Heard you were on the phone with the Copper douchebags today too. Just heard they're trying to pin the Flight for Life fees on you guys now=LAME.

Not sure if you know, but I'm banned for life from that shithole mountain because I couldn't put up with the 'tudes of the ski pigs/skier safety dicks there.
Just look at their gay little mountain, not a gate anywhere except at the bottom. Toby probably just wanted his weiner stroked by the media/SAR/police for being a hero.......

[cmsummit]

The gate is in "ore bucket" not off the top of 7, but in the independence chair area.

That's why I've never seen it.

[robokill1981]

That's why I've never seen it.

Yeah it's kind of in the middle of nowhere but skinning out of that gate only adds about 5 minutes to a trip and keeps you legal.

Edit- speaking of legality can it really be legal for them to stick you with the heli costs?

[Hacksaw]

Go to the CAIC website, and then to the accident section, under Colorado of this year. Please read the full report, there is a lot to learn here.

Halsted Morris
CAIC

[AltaPowderDaze]

http://geosurvey.state.co.us/Avalanc...44#Pk604062005

Peak 6, West side of Tenmile Range
April 6, 2005
An Incident

No accident occurred, no one was caught but a bit of an incident ensued and there are some important lessons to be learned by all. One of the skiers involved has posted a summary of events along with a sincere apology on www.tetongravity.com. Reported below is what we have heard from rescuers, and it is subject to change.

Here's what we heard:

On Wednesday afternoon a group of 3 skiers remotely triggered a large and long-running avalanche in the "Y" chute, one of several prominent avalanche paths on the backside of Peak 6 in the Tenmile Range. This slide ran nearly to the valley floor. There was considerable confusion about this avalanche and it seems the skiers likely never knew they had triggered the slide as they traversed well above treeline. The skiers continued their descending traverse to the "K" chute where they triggered a second avalanche. The skiers called the Copper Mountain Ski Patrol to report they had triggered a "big" slide, no one was caught, all were okay, and that they had a good route out. Confusion arose because the patrol could see 2 slides, and the "big" slide (in the Y chute) was much bigger than the K slide. The Copper Patrol could clearly see the 3 tracks entering the smaller slide but could see no tracks exiting, but the skiers had mentioned a big slide. The Summit County Sheriff's Office was notified and initiated a search and rescue operation.

With ski tracks in but no tracks out, rescuers from the Breckenridge and Copper ski patrols, Flight for Life, Summit County Rescue Group, and Summit County Sheriff's Office responded. Perhaps 20ish minutes after the first call the Copper Patrol received a second call from the skiers saying all were off the mountain, in their car, and headed down the highway. The caller refused to answer any questions, saying he wanted to remain anonymous and hung up. This was an unfortunate event, because a few extra minutes on the phone to answer truthfully where and how they had gotten out would have saved everyone involved a considerable amount of effort and grief. Instead the caller falsely reported they were safe and out, and on their way to Frisco when they were actually still on the mountain and a long ways from the valley floor.

Confusion rose dramatically when some else reportedly called the Breckenridge Ski Patrol "confirming" 3 people were buried. Presented with conflicting information the rescuers had to confirm there were 3 tracks out of the avalanche. Ideally it would have been even better to confirm the skiers were off the mountain before the search could be called off. Even if the call to the Breckenridge had not occurred, the rescuers would still want to confirm tracks out. With no visible tracks in the valley floor the best way to check the avalanche would be from the air.

Flight for Life flew to the site with an avalanche specialist and avalanche rescue dog and handler from the Breckenridge Ski Patrol. From the air the crew confirmed tracks in but could find no tracks out. Because of rugged terrain the helicopter could not land on the debris or even get close to the debris. Also because of significant avalanche danger rescuers could not immediately enter the area from above or from below.

By now the skiers had seen the helicopter and heard sirens, so they called back a third time to say they were out and okay, but they would not say where they were. The search effort continued because the rescuers didn't know where the skiers were, and couldn't find their tracks out of the avalanche or coming on into the valley floor.

Back in the valley a meeting was quickly called by rescuers to plan their response. Avalanche reduction work with explosives would be needed to make routes and the site safe for rescuers. This effort would take time. While plans were being made the helicopter flew back to the site with just the avalanche specialist for a closer look.

From the air came good news. Flying closer to the slope the helicopter crew spotted some faint tracks and then spotted the three skiers hiding in the trees. About this time came a fourth call, and the skiers admitted they were still on the mountain.

After awhile the three skiers finally made it to the valley floor and the awaiting throng of rescuers, sheriff deputies, and the media. The Summit Daily News reported this morning the trio were ticketed for violating the Colorado Skier Safety Act by ducking under a closure rope at the Breckenridge Ski Resort.

Comments
Unfortunately, events for the 3 skiers quickly got out of hand. As mentioned earlier a few extra minutes on the phone with a truthful appraisal of their situation would have resulted in a quiet and uneventful afternoon. They did the right thing when they called the patrol to say all was okay. We encourage folks to call authorities if they trigger an avalanche and think others might be watching, so an unnecessary rescue effort doesn't get started. (If there is any doubt rescuers will always respond.) If during the second call had the skiers said they were still working there way down and would call when they got out to the cars, that likely would have been the end of the story.

If one ever calls to report a slide and to say there is no need for rescue, make sure you call back to say not just that your out but also to add how you got out. Rescuers really like to be able to confirm that folks are indeed out and safe. In many cases someone will likely check for the tracks to confirm the story. When the story cannot be verified, a rescue will likely start. In this incident the tracks out could not be found, so the search continued.

In reading the first-person account (www.tetongravity.com) the trio's actions to continue down on to similar slopes after triggering an avalanche is interesting. What they did by continuing downhill was neither wrong or right; for them it worked. They got down safely, and it is probably what 99.99% of we gravity-loving skiers and riders would have done, but sometimes this action can lead right into the den of the avalanche dragon. Sometimes the better choice of action is to turn around and climb back uphill and return from where we came. Climbing back uphill also allows us to re-evaluate earlier decisions. We might decide to treat, or decide on a completely different route down, or on hot days we can wait until the snow refreezes. (If you decide to wait, wait at least an extra hour longer then you think to be necessary to allow for a better freeze and stronger snow.) Once we start downhill it is very difficult to change plans or routes. Gravity takes over and keeps pulling us down. If slopes become steeper or the snow wetter, the avalanche danger goes up. Despite increasing danger we usually continue downward bound because it seems easier to go with gravity than to work against it. However, sometimes it is safer to go against gravity.

Atkins, April 6, posted at 1000 and updated at 1145.

[Artie Fufkin]

Chad, glad you guys are alright. Thanks for sharing. That can't be easy to do, but sharing that experience might influence other's decision making down the road and save their or their BC partner's life.

BTW I am burning my Silverton bootpacking day on Sunday, I'll git some for ya.

[Tippster]

So they didn't tell you where they were! BFD! They told you they were ok!!!! Is it now SOP to assume the caller is LYING? All this circus to make a fucking stupid ass little point and to stroke egos. Jesus Christ, all you're assuring is NO phonecall next time!

[basom]

tippster. its called protocall.
confirming they were alive visualy through looking for tracks out of the slide seems pretty reasonable. and with no exit route communicated... i think airing on the side of searching is not really a bad thing.

[MTP0WDERJUNKIE]

so did this happen at copper or breck???

[Blurred]

so did this happen at copper or breck???

Sol Vista.

[Tippster]

Edited because posting non-sober isn't generally a good idea.

[Ireallyliketoski2]

Excellent point about not knowing how many parties were in the area and two seperate slides being visible, great work by everyone involved. Hopefully those deriding SAR never need their help, lest karma sneak up on them.

[Kya]

looking for tracks out .

Hypotheticaly, what if the group skied the debri field all the way out? Exit tracks really would not have been seen. Would all of the hoopla still have happened?