Copper Cookware Question

[MontuckyFried]

As we all know, Christmas is coming up. My wife's a heck of a great cook, and it is probably her greatest hobby (man, I lucked out). She's made due quite well with sub-par cookware, but this year, I was hoping to maybe surprise her with some copper pieces.

So a couple of questions being that I know NOTHING about high-end cookware:

IS copper all that great for cooking? I think it looks awesome, but don't know anything about it's actual cooking properties.

From my initial research, some of the brands I'm looking at are Mauviel and All-Clad. They look amazing, but I'm wondering are they THAT much better than the cheaper brands like Calphalon and Cuisinart? Stupid question, I know. That's why I need help with this subject.


Hoping to (a few years from now) match this stuff up with some pimp range like a La Cornue Château. Hey, when you got a partner who cooks awesome meals for you daily, they deserve great tools, right?

[Benny Profane]

Cuisinart multi ply ftw. Copper is basically just for decoration, certainly not worth the price. But, if you go for copper, get the best, because making decent cookware out of two entirely different metals takes expertise.

[Tuckerman]

We were given some maybe a year ago, and it is great for cooking. It takes some work getting it to look shiny new so ours is dull looking and is not out for display.

[Bobcat Sig]

Scan Pans FTW. Seriously. Do it.

[KQ]

Pros and Cons of Copper Cookware

I have one copper sauce pan that was a gift. I don't find it better or worse than my everyday Revere ware. I cook on electric. I'm sure gas is different/better.

Personally I'm a Le Crueset person - LOVE the stuff.

Here's something on how to keep it shiny:

COOKWARE CLEANING: COPPER COOKWARE

Salt. A salted half lemon. Worcestershire sauce. Tomato sauce. Ketchup. Vinegar. Vinegar and Salt. Vinegar and salt and flour. Cream of tartar and water. Yogurt. Boiling milk. Each of these are among the score or more of methods recommended to remove tarnish from copper—not counting commercial copper polishes. Do any of them work?

Enterprising and interesting as they are, these home remedies were not as effective as the traditional commercial polishes we tried, which not only removed tarnish but added shine. Among the home remedies, only the ketchup could be said to effectively remove tarnish, but it didn't add shine. When you're desperate to clean up a tarnished copper pan and have no commercial polish on hand, ketchup does a decent job.

Cleaning Safety
In our search for the ultimate cleaning materials and methods, we continually ran into a couple of stern warnings. In particular, never mix bleach and ammonia. When combined the two create chloramine gasses that are highly irritating to the lungs and can cause coughing and choking. In general, never mix commercially prepared cleansers, which may contain ammonia, bleach, or other chemicals that will be hazardous if combined.
1. Spread an even layer of ketchup over the surface of the pan with a paper towel or dishcloth.



2. After 5 minutes, wipe off the ketchup with a damp towel or sponge. Wash with warm water and dishwashing liquid, and dry



Among widely available polishes, Weiman Metal Polish did the best job of removing tarnish and adding shine to copper pots and pans. Ketchup does a great job of removing tarnish but won't add a brilliant luster to copper cookware.

[hortence]

Now is the time to engage her in casual conversation about what tools she enjoys using in the kitchen. Being as subtle as you can, draw her out on what she thinks would be da bomb in the kitchen. Then get it, wrap it and put it under the tree.

Just because you think she needs copper or something doesn't mean she does. Do you have a decent cast iron skillet? Excellent knives? There's a million tools.

Is she interested in the history of cooking, or does she care for an im-depth look at almost any kind of ingredient there is?
http://www.amazon.com/Larousse-Gastr.../dp/0307464911

[KQ]

There are applications where copper makes a difference and applications where it does not. That means you should buy the absolute best that you can afford for those applications where it matters, and save money where it doesn't.

Saucier/sauteuse pans, get the absolute best you can afford. This is where the thickness and purity of the copper amkes the most difference. Likewise, a couple of good saute pans in different sizes. If you have those covered, your chef probably won't need the highest quality flat bottomed sauce pans, so drop down a step or two for these. Things like stock pots or really large sauce pans, aluminum is more than adequate, so if you buy copper it's only for looks and you can look for less expensive items. Same with anything that goes into the oven like roasters, loaf pans, and the like.

A collection is built over time, not all at once. So choose the most critical pieces and take time finding th right versions.

Well said! I picked up the Le Creuset Sauier a couple years ago and have not regretted the purchase. It is has been a great addition to my collection.

With regard to having multiple saute (and skillet) pans you are right on. In addition to pan size you should consider the cooking surface - sometimes I need non-stick and sometimes when I'm doing something like browning butter I need a stainless steel pan so I can monitor the color of the butter.

[Art Shirk]

Take a look at the Anolon copper core as well.

[creaky fossil]

Cuisinart multi ply ftw. Copper is basically just for decoration, certainly not worth the price. But, if you go for copper, get the best, because making decent cookware out of two entirely different metals takes expertise.

and of course is not cheap, never should any aspiring Mountain Lifestyle-friendly chaser-of-fads demean him-/herself by using something as gauche, declasse and embarrassing as



if I ate something tasty and then, mid-comestible-ingestion, I'm informed that it was prepared in the horrifying reactionary crap shown above, I'd vomit and demand a full body purge starting with emetic and ending with dialytic process on both blood and hepatics

[Benny Profane]

I use that stuff at my girlfriend's a lot (old waspy hand me downs) and food just sticks all the time.

[berko]

and of course is not cheap, never should any aspiring Mountain Lifestyle-friendly chaser-of-fads demean him-/herself by using something as gauche, declasse and embarrassing as



if I ate something tasty and then, mid-comestible-oingestion, I'm informed that it was prepared in the horrifying reactionary crap shown above, I'd vomit and demand a full body purge starting with emetic and ending with dialytic process on both blood and hepatics

You are a poor man's Hugh Conway.

[KQ]

I use that stuff at my girlfriend's a lot (old waspy hand me downs) and food just sticks all the time.

What stuff? Copper or Revere Ware? Unless it is Teflon (or something similar) coated things are going to stick. I have Revere Ware, not the copper bottomed stuff but I have had that in the past. Works for me when I need a general purpose sauce pan for heating something up, cooking pasta. making oatmeal, etc. etc.

[butterscotch]

Now is the time to engage her in casual conversation about what tools she enjoys using in the kitchen. Being as subtle as you can, draw her out on what she thinks would be da bomb in the kitchen. Then get it, wrap it and put it under the tree.

Just because you think she needs copper or something doesn't mean she does. Do you have a decent cast iron skillet? Excellent knives? There's a million tools.

Is she interested in the history of cooking, or does she care for an im-depth look at almost any kind of ingredient there is?
http://www.amazon.com/Larousse-Gastr.../dp/0307464911

this. if your wife loves to cook, she probably has a wish list.

one highly underrated kitchen item, IMO, is the dutch oven. super useful.

i don't have one, but my parents rave about their kitchen aid stand mixer.

i have some All Clad stuff that we got as a gift. i'm sure it's nice, but i've never been like, "holy shit! I'm so glad i have this." Like KQ, I'm on electric.

That gastronomique book looks sweet. The most used book in our kitchen is the cooks illustrated cookbook; we call it "the book of knowledge".

[Benny Profane]

Hey, KQ, I have a cooking question.

I sorted making quiche, because I have been having Sunday breakfast gatherings with 5-6 people at my new place. I have been using frozen crusts from Whole Foods. Are the crusts supposed to be kinda flaky under the quiche? They aren't.

[KQ]

Hey, KQ, I have a cooking question.

I sorted making quiche, because I have been having Sunday breakfast gatherings with 5-6 people at my new place. I have been using frozen crusts from Whole Foods. Are the crusts supposed to be kinda flaky under the quiche? They aren't.

I make quiche often and while the crust isn't soggy and under cooked it is by no means flaky (comes out like the crust on a pumpkin pie). "The Joy of Cooking" calls for piercing the crust all over with a fork then brushing it with an egg white. You could try that though I'm not sure if it makes all that much of a difference. I forgot to do it once and didn't notice a difference. What kind of pie plate are you using? I use a thin stainless steel pan which I love. I find Pyrex glass plates to be less desirable. Have not tired ceramic.

edit: Well I guess I just don't know jack because Cooks Illustrated favors glass/ceramic and listed Pyrex as their "clear winner". I'm sticking with my stainless steel - they've served me well for close to 20 years and I bake a lot of pies/quiche. I have not experienced the issues Cooks did with metal pans.

PIE PLATES

OVERVIEW:
When we rated pie plates a decade ago, we picked our winner because it browned and crisped crusts better than the other contenders. We also liked its wide rim for easy fluting, see-through bottom that allowed pie-makers to monitor bottom crusts, and low price. But while it produced the best-baked crusts, they could have been a tad crisper. Since that time, manufacturers have designed pie plates with fancy new features (mesh bottoms, scalloped edges, crust protectors) purported to produce perfect pies. We tested seven new models against our old favorite.

ALL-PURPOSE PLATE
In search of a versatile, all-around pie plate, we tested each by baking an unfilled pie shell (known as a parbaked or blind-baked crust), a quiche, an apple pie, and a pat in-the-pan graham cracker crust. Except for the graham cracker crust, we used premade crusts to ensure consistency. The best pans produced blind-baked shells that were golden brown on both sides and bottoms, apple pies with evenly cooked fillings, and graham cracker crusts that didn’t slump, crack, or crumble. But the real litmus test turned out to be quiche. Our winning pie plates conducted enough heat to set the egg custard to a creamy texture without overbaking the crust.

MORE IS LESS
Several plates touted special features, but in the end they proved unhelpful, even inhibiting. The decorative ruffles on one plate (designed to flute the crust) created wide edges that browned too quickly. Ridges inside the rim of another plate are meant for easy, press-in fluting, but instead made for messy-looking pies. Cosmetic damage was also wrought by plates with crust protectors designed to shield the edge of the crust from overbrowning; the same went for shields, which look like smaller pie plates with holes and are intended to replace pie weights. Two plates were designed to let steam escape so that the bottom would crisp better. But these plates produced the soggiest crusts of all because the evaporating moisture prevented the bottom surface from ever getting hotter than the boiling point of 212 degrees, a process called “evaporative cooling.” The escaping steam further cooled the dead spot by pushing hot oven air away, exacerbating the problem.

METAL MALADIES
One dark metal model absorbed heat too quickly and overbrowned the outside bottom and sides of pies before the filling was cooked or the center of the bottom browned. It yielded quiche custard that was overcooked near the edges, yet runny in the middle. We had somewhat better results with another pale metal plate whose shiny, reflective surface heated up more slowly: pies needed to be baked longer, but the filling cooked more evenly than in dark metal.

CLEAR WINNER
Because glass and ceramic conduct heat slowly, heat gradually builds and spreads throughout the plate, thus custard cooks evenly, and the center of the bottom has time to brown. Two glass plates and a ceramic one produced perfectly cooked apple and quiche fillings, golden top crusts, and satisfactory bottoms. This is because glass and ceramic heat more slowly than metal, which results in even baking. The glass laminate plate produced the crispest bottom crust of all but was downgraded because its steep, slippery walls caused the graham cracker crust to slump.

SUMMING UP
Our favorite all-purpose pie plate remains our previous all-glass winner, which provides slow, steady, insulating heat for even baking. Its shallow, angled sides prevent crusts from slumping, and it’s just 1 1/8 inches deep, which neatly fits a store-bought crust when we don’t feel like making our own. Its basic, functional design and low price made it the clear winner.

[jma233]

Go with directional conducting plastic cookware instead.

[Benny Profane]

I make quiche often and while the crust isn't soggy and under cooked it is by no means flaky (comes out like the crust on a pumpkin pie). "The Joy of Cooking" calls for piercing the crust all over with a fork then brushing it with an egg white. You could try that though I'm not sure if it makes all that much of a difference. I forgot to do it once and didn't notice a difference. What kind of pie plate are you using? I use a thin stainless steel pan which I love. I find Pyrex glass plates to be less desirable. Have not tired ceramic.

edit: Well I guess I just don't know jack because Cooks Illustrated favors glass/ceramic and listed Pyrex as their "clear winner". I'm sticking with my stainless steel - they've served me well for close to 20 years and I bake a lot of pies/quiche. I have not experienced the issues Cooks did with metal pans.

PIE PLATES

OVERVIEW:
When we rated pie plates a decade ago, we picked our winner because it browned and crisped crusts better than the other contenders. We also liked its wide rim for easy fluting, see-through bottom that allowed pie-makers to monitor bottom crusts, and low price. But while it produced the best-baked crusts, they could have been a tad crisper. Since that time, manufacturers have designed pie plates with fancy new features (mesh bottoms, scalloped edges, crust protectors) purported to produce perfect pies. We tested seven new models against our old favorite.

ALL-PURPOSE PLATE
In search of a versatile, all-around pie plate, we tested each by baking an unfilled pie shell (known as a parbaked or blind-baked crust), a quiche, an apple pie, and a pat in-the-pan graham cracker crust. Except for the graham cracker crust, we used premade crusts to ensure consistency. The best pans produced blind-baked shells that were golden brown on both sides and bottoms, apple pies with evenly cooked fillings, and graham cracker crusts that didn’t slump, crack, or crumble. But the real litmus test turned out to be quiche. Our winning pie plates conducted enough heat to set the egg custard to a creamy texture without overbaking the crust.

MORE IS LESS
Several plates touted special features, but in the end they proved unhelpful, even inhibiting. The decorative ruffles on one plate (designed to flute the crust) created wide edges that browned too quickly. Ridges inside the rim of another plate are meant for easy, press-in fluting, but instead made for messy-looking pies. Cosmetic damage was also wrought by plates with crust protectors designed to shield the edge of the crust from overbrowning; the same went for shields, which look like smaller pie plates with holes and are intended to replace pie weights. Two plates were designed to let steam escape so that the bottom would crisp better. But these plates produced the soggiest crusts of all because the evaporating moisture prevented the bottom surface from ever getting hotter than the boiling point of 212 degrees, a process called “evaporative cooling.” The escaping steam further cooled the dead spot by pushing hot oven air away, exacerbating the problem.

METAL MALADIES
One dark metal model absorbed heat too quickly and overbrowned the outside bottom and sides of pies before the filling was cooked or the center of the bottom browned. It yielded quiche custard that was overcooked near the edges, yet runny in the middle. We had somewhat better results with another pale metal plate whose shiny, reflective surface heated up more slowly: pies needed to be baked longer, but the filling cooked more evenly than in dark metal.

CLEAR WINNER
Because glass and ceramic conduct heat slowly, heat gradually builds and spreads throughout the plate, thus custard cooks evenly, and the center of the bottom has time to brown. Two glass plates and a ceramic one produced perfectly cooked apple and quiche fillings, golden top crusts, and satisfactory bottoms. This is because glass and ceramic heat more slowly than metal, which results in even baking. The glass laminate plate produced the crispest bottom crust of all but was downgraded because its steep, slippery walls caused the graham cracker crust to slump.

SUMMING UP
Our favorite all-purpose pie plate remains our previous all-glass winner, which provides slow, steady, insulating heat for even baking. Its shallow, angled sides prevent crusts from slumping, and it’s just 1 1/8 inches deep, which neatly fits a store-bought crust when we don’t feel like making our own. Its basic, functional design and low price made it the clear winner.

The cheap tin pie plate the crust came in.

[KQ]

The cheap tin pie plate the crust came in.

Ahhhh gotcha - I was thinking you bought the crust that comes in packages and you unfold it. Is it frozen? Might have something to do with how it cooks.

I have an uber easy pie crust recipe you can make in 30 secs if you have a food processor. It's not a fancy super flaky crust but it is easy to work with and gets the job done - it is especially good for single crust applications. This recipe makes two crusts - you can easily cut it in half for one. It will require rolling but it rolls easy.

1 stick butter
1.5 c all purpose flour
4.5 tbl sour cream

combine all ingredient in food processor - process until it rolls into ball. That's it!

[BmillsSkier]

Do you like cleaning? You'll love copper cookware. We got a full set for our wedding, and it looks fantastic on the hanging rack. Cooks very well too, but the cleaning is a pain in the ass for quick, everyday use. We use our other set of All-Clad Copper-Core for daily use.

Pio said it with the one-piece-at-a-time method. Get the basics, and a Le Creuset dutch oven, and work from there.

[MontuckyFried]

Personally I'm a Le Crueset person - LOVE the stuff.

Agreed. We have a few Le Crueset pieces and love 'em. They get a surprising amount of use and hold up really well.

There are applications where copper makes a difference and applications where it does not. That means you should buy the absolute best that you can afford for those applications where it matters, and save money where it doesn't.

Saucier/sauteuse pans, get the absolute best you can afford. This is where the thickness and purity of the copper amkes the most difference. Likewise, a couple of good saute pans in different sizes. If you have those covered, your chef probably won't need the highest quality flat bottomed sauce pans, so drop down a step or two for these. Things like stock pots or really large sauce pans, aluminum is more than adequate, so if you buy copper it's only for looks and you can look for less expensive items. Same with anything that goes into the oven like roasters, loaf pans, and the like.

A collection is built over time, not all at once. So choose the most critical pieces and take time finding th right versions.

Good to know. Glad I won't have to pony up for an entire 10-piece set! Will definitely look into the saucier and maybe 1 or 2 more items.
Perhaps something like this? http://www.williams-sonoma.com/produ...-pro-saucepan/
or this: http://www.williams-sonoma.com/produ...r-with-insert/

Is she interested in the history of cooking, or does she care for an im-depth look at almost any kind of ingredient there is?
http://www.amazon.com/Larousse-Gastr.../dp/0307464911

Great idea! She'd love that. Ordering now.

[Benny Profane]

Ahhhh gotcha - I was thinking you bought the crust that comes in packages and you unfold it. Is it frozen? Might have something to do with how it cooks.

I have an uber easy pie crust recipe you can make in 30 secs if you have a food processor. It's not a fancy super flaky crust but it is easy to work with and gets the job done - it is especially good for single crust applications. This recipe makes two crusts - you can easily cut it in half for one. It will require rolling but it rolls easy.

1 stick butter
2 c all purpose flour
4.5 tbl sour cream

combine all ingredient in food processor - process until it rolls into ball. That's it!

Cool, thanks. I thought crust was harder. I'll give it a go, or just eliminate the crust entirely and call it a fratita.

[KQ]

Pio said it with the one-piece-at-a-time method. Get the basics, and a Le Creuset dutch oven, and work from there.

OP - I was just going to say this. Buy the little woman a subscription to Cooks Illustrated and pick up a Le Creuset French (round) oven (they call them French but it is what you think of when you say "Dutch"). Don't get smaller than 7 1/4 qt. - it is the best all-purpose size and will let her cook 99% of what she wants. Bigger/smaller and oval can come later. They come in many colors to coordinate or mix and match. Some stores like Williams Sonoma have exclusive colors.

[MontuckyFried]

OP - I was just going to say this. Buy the little woman a subscription to Cooks Illustrated and pick up a Le Creuset French (round) oven (they call them French but it is what you think of when you say "Dutch"). Don't get smaller than 7 1/4 qt. - it is the best all-purpose size and will let her cook 99% of what she wants. Bigger/smaller and oval can come later. They come in many colors to coordinate or mix and match. Some stores like Williams Sonoma have exclusive colors.

Great ideas. She used to have a subscription to Cook's Country, so Cook's Illustrated will be right up her alley. Digging the french oven you linked, too. Seems very versatile!

[Benny Profane]

I'm getting me of of these http://www.crateandbarrel.com/cuisin...236?b=1&a=1552 for Xmas just because I'm so awesome.

[LightRanger]

She used to have a subscription to Cook's Country, so Cook's Illustrated will be right up her alley.

Same folks. Love the shows on TV. My mom's always had a subscription to CI. I should get my wife one...