Patellar Tendond Graftees...a few ?'s Day 6 post op.

[truth]

Did you have odd areas of numbness around the area?

Did you find after a few days some deeper buising showing up? I have one mid thigh that is gnarly, like they had my thigh in a vise to move the leg.

What the fuck is the deal with staples? When did stitches go out of style?

Check her out...18 staples...ooooh lala!


Oh, and I'm 80 degrees ROM on the CPM today...sickity sick! Should be 90 bu the fockers dropped the machine here a day late.

[Big E]

Numbness? Check. Small quarter- to half-dollar-size area on outside part of knee an inch or two below knee cap. Still there, 1 and 5 years later.

Bruising? Check. My first one was positively frightening, like you said, looked like they put my leg in a vise. It goes away. Eventually. Might not want to lounge by the pool for a bit, though.

Staples? Fortunately for my stomach, I had stitches both times.

How's the extension? My last doc was semi-fanatical about getting full extension. My first checkup, he didn't even check flexion, just wanted to make sure I could get full extension.

Good luck dude!

[basom]

not sure about the staples. those look brutal.
i had one incision, with internal stitches, that looked much smaller than yours does, lengthwise. stictches came out two weeks post op (i think, maybe it was four?) and they just cut the two ends popping out and pulled the tread out in one motion. it was sweet.
as far as bruising. i had a lot of discouloration. it hung around in various stages of black, purple, blue, green, and yellow for a good while. in the most affcted area of brusing (insde of my calf) the skin there is still a deeper shade of pale than the rest of my epidermis. thinking i got permenantly stained from the insdie out.
the numbness is experienced by everyone who gets a pateller graft. when they make the incision they cut the nreve which serves the skin on the outside of your knee. from what i understand after one month post op the nerve will (most likely) start to re grow. at a rate of one millimeter a day. for me, the sensation has came back a bit (10 months post op as of aprli 1), but its not 100% still kinda feels like pins and needles sometimes when i kneel, or my pants brush against my knee. initially i was a little bugged by the lack of nerve there, but i got acustomed to it, now i dont really realize that the feeling is comming back slowly. there is no garuntee that the nerve will fully grow back, and you may be left with some numbness for the rest of your days. My doc said if its not fully back in 3-5 years, then it prolly isn't comming back. i'm sort of surprised the doctors didn't mention that when you were discussing what graft is suited to you.

nice work on the rom. continuous passive motion is the shit.

[Vinman]

Did you have odd areas of numbness around the area?

Did you find after a few days some deeper buising showing up? I have one mid thigh that is gnarly, like they had my thigh in a vise to move the leg.

What the fuck is the deal with staples? When did stitches go out of style?

Oh, and I'm 80 degrees ROM on the CPM today...sickity sick! Should be 90 bu the fockers dropped the machine here a day late.

Numbness is normal. They have to cut a few tiny nerves that give sensation to the skin. Don't worry about it. Chances are the area will get smaller over time but you will likely always have a numb spot.

Bruising is also normal, don't worry about it. I was black and blue from my thigh to my ankle after the last one.

Staples vs. stitches = preference of the Doc. They don't hurt coming out if thats what you are afraid of (sissy)

Congrats on the ROM. But don't get your panties in a bunch over it if it doesn't progress as fast as you would like or in record time. Just plug away at it and it will always get better. Worry more about Extension in these first couple weeks. You can't walk without a limp if you can't fully extend your knee. and if you walk with a limp you'll just set yourself back by injuring something else or they may not let you off the cruthces until you can walk without a limp.

Like I said plug away at it, you are in a marathon not a 100 yd dash. Slow and stready wins the race in this situation.

[xboat]

you will probably never get back the feeling in that area. part of the deal.

staples come out nice and easy, no worries.

that scar is as long as my first surgery 17 years ago. wow. i would have to think that would slow down flexion progress. looks painful. my new scar is 2" long and well below the knee. i was happy to see that after surgery.

[Huckwheat]

Wow truth, that is an intense picture. Maybe this has been said, but what exactly did you get done? When did you injure it?

I am at day 4 post op....so looks like we are living on parallel couches. My doc didnt give me my CPM until my post op appt yesterday. In the appt they measured me at 85 - 0, but so far with the machine I havent gone above 75 (makes me a bit nervous).

One of my current gripes is everyone (including the doctors staff) has been telling me different stuff. They gave me a post surgery exercise paper that said to prop my knee on the couch arm and let gravity work on extension (so I did, days 1 +2). Then yesterday a different person told me not to even put a towel under my heel. Anyhow, I think I am going to be mostly taking it easy this first week.....they have me more afraid about stretching the graft than about not getting my ROM back. (I think some of those concerns are more Allograft specific though....sounds like PT has less risk there).

Are you using the Iceman (or similar cooler thing)....I am an admitted junkie....but it is keeping me from being a drug addict.

BTW....I am really thankful for the TGR boards and wireless....what a great way to kill time while spending a week on the couch.

Keep me posted.

[basom]

they have me more afraid about stretching the graft than about not getting my ROM back. (I think some of those concerns are more Allograft specific though....sounds like PT has less risk there).

thats it.

with the allograft you have to be very carefull in the begining. truths graft is attatched to his bones with screws and other mechanical hardware.

[Kellie]

I am at day 4 post op....so looks like we are living on parallel couches. My doc didnt give me my CPM until my post op appt yesterday. In the appt they measured me at 85 - 0, but so far with the machine I havent gone above 75 (makes me a bit nervous).

So you got the machine, eh?!?!

You already have full extension?!!? That is impressive, my friend!! I can't seem to get there and stay. I got to 0 within the first two weeks, but I have to let it hang for awhile and let gravity do its job . . . so frustrating!!! But I get a ton of flexion on the stationary bike, which is nice (of course, after that, it takes a half hour to get the thing straight again . . .).

I will be stoked to get full extension consistently and less stiffness, so I can stop limping and start to feel at least a little more normal . . .


And Truth, that is one helluva pic - I didn't know they used staples anymore -mine are internal dissolveable stitches - the scar is already looking pretty good.

[scoober]

I am like 5mo post and the numb spot is getting smaller. Although I think some of the nerves crossed when they reconnected because some sensations seem slightly out of place when poked. The doc said that is not beyond the realm of possibility.

My bruising was huge. I had a lingering patch down on the inside of my ankle back toward the achilles. I would wake up on a new day and have a new random bruise. Make sure to be doing your calf pumps (gas pedal motions), it helps move the blood around, and helps avoid the deep vain thrombosis (blood clots, could be really serious).

Best think I can reccommend for the ROM is to get on the stationary bike as soon as your doc lets you and work at it. I never thought I would be sitting on a trainer in my garage struggling to get one full revolution but there I was. It comes back quick once you get going though. I singlehandedly attribute my ROM sucess to the bike.

That incision is wicked. Interesting to see where other docs cut.

[SPREAD EAGLE]

My knee has a small scar from the incision to the left of the left knee cap and medial-n-lateral small holes from the anchor and lateral release.

Now mine was a disclocated patella, what was the entire procedure you received?

[truth]

Wow truth, that is an intense picture. Maybe this has been said, but what exactly did you get done? When did you injure it?

I am at day 4 post op....so looks like we are living on parallel couches. My doc didnt give me my CPM until my post op appt yesterday. In the appt they measured me at 85 - 0, but so far with the machine I havent gone above 75 (makes me a bit nervous).

One of my current gripes is everyone (including the doctors staff) has been telling me different stuff. They gave me a post surgery exercise paper that said to prop my knee on the couch arm and let gravity work on extension (so I did, days 1 +2). Then yesterday a different person told me not to even put a towel under my heel. Anyhow, I think I am going to be mostly taking it easy this first week.....they have me more afraid about stretching the graft than about not getting my ROM back. (I think some of those concerns are more Allograft specific though....sounds like PT has less risk there).

Are you using the Iceman (or similar cooler thing)....I am an admitted junkie....but it is keeping me from being a drug addict.

BTW....I am really thankful for the TGR boards and wireless....what a great way to kill time while spending a week on the couch.

Keep me posted.

I had a patellar tendon graft done, but there was some pretty serious scuffing of the femor that had to be shaved down and made smooth Not sure why the graft cut is so big, guess that's what the doc needed to get it out. I ave no laptop so my posting has been limmited which is good cause I am drugged to the gills. I can however read tyhe forum from my Treo 650...but for some reason it won't let me post on any UBB style sites.

No iceman here, just a constant cycle of ice packs. I also got conflicting tales aout elevationa nd use of a pillow or what not. Found out that the fear is in keeping the joint in an unsupported hyper-extension. So long as that's not the case you shold be allright. I actually ahve had the immmobilizer off most of the time with a jenga tower of pillows under my leg to support the joint, ankle andhip in a slight bend.

My ROM is unknown but in the CPM I'm 0-80 after starting at 0-30 and adding 10 a day.

[Kellie]

Best think I can reccommend for the ROM is to get on the stationary bike as soon as your doc lets you and work at it. I never thought I would be sitting on a trainer in my garage struggling to get one full revolution but there I was. It comes back quick once you get going though. I singlehandedly attribute my ROM sucess to the bike.

Scoober, do you have full ROM back, or still working on flexion?

I agree on the bike thing (even though I'm only 2+ weeks out) - I am amazed by how much I get just "pedalling" in circles for 1/2 hour . . . but I can't get near that far if I just try to move my leg there . . . I am hoping to match your 144 degrees at 3 weeks

[scoober]

Scoober, do you have full ROM back, or still working on flexion?

I agree on the bike thing (even though I'm only 2+ weeks out) - I am amazed by how much I get just "pedalling" in circles for 1/2 hour . . . but I can't get near that far if I just try to move my leg there . . . I am hoping to match your 144 degrees at 3 weeks

Yeah I am fully back to my normal ROM, whatever it is in flexion. I am not matching my natural extension, but that is because I naturally hyperextend to like 3-4 degrees. PT and doc say that I probably won't ever get the knee back that far and shouldn't necessarily need or want to. Right now I am just playing a waiting game for the graft to be considered 'full strength'.

You probably already know, but pedaling backwards is easier and will grease up the knee and get you ready for a full forward revolution.

[Theodore]

I still have a numb area between my scars, prob about an inch tall. The fun part is the phantom itching. I had alot of that for some reason. I do remember lots of bruising all around, and I got staples too. I also had 18, but I also have a 7" scar up the side of my knee from my LCL and biceps femoris. I think they went staple happy on you. They don't sting too much when the take em out, and you don't even feel the ones in the numb area come out. Kinda a nice benefit. What's up with the stapled athroscopy holes? They just taped mine and told me not to get em wet for a few days...

[altagirl]

My numb spots went away on my other knee after a year or so, this time I just have a tingly/funky feeling spot right on my shin bone. Totally different spot this time...

They taped my arthroscopy ports the first time and put two stitches (in an X) on them this time. Never had staples... that looks pretty wild. At least with the stitches they just cut the end and pull one string out and it took about a second to have them removed. I have a totally different (smaller and not over the PT) incision though since I had an allograft.

[milton]

>>Did you find after a few days some deeper buising showing up? I have one mid thigh that is gnarly, like they had my thigh in a vise to move the leg.

I had a killer bruise on the outside of my thigh, almost up near my hip. Couldn't figure out why the hell it was there so far from the knee work. At times it hurt worse than my knee did, so i asked the doc on my first visit. Ahhhh, it was where the tourniquet was. Judging from the green/black/blue/yellowish color, they must have had it on pretty damn tight.

goodluck with your recovery.

[truth]

Ahhhh, it was where the tourniquet was. Judging from the green/black/blue/yellowish color, they must have had it on pretty damn tight.

goodluck with your recovery.

Ah ha!

Thanks mang.

[fineline]

yeah I was a little concerned about the numbness too... but thats normal, I am 2 months post op now and its still there. Phantom itching, hah- thats the worst, why do numb things itch?? That could be used as some kind of torture...

Anyway, good luck with the rehab!! Sounds like everyone here is doing well. All I can say is work that extension like none other. I went to cancun a few weeks ago and it worked wonders for my knee. I dont know if it was walking on the beach, swimming, or just the mental part of being in cancun... but it definately helped. It was like a night and day change.

[gorms]

2 years after surgery and I still have some numbness around the scar. I think the feeling has come back a bit, but it is a hard thing to gauge.

The worst is over....now you only get stronger
Best of luck w/ rehab...it can be very humbling, but you will find you clear hurdles pretty quickly!

[truth]

Finally got out of the house yesterday for a bit. Even drove a car...damn if it wasn't nice to be off the couch and out in the world again. Staples come out tuesday morning and I'm glad, they are really getting annoying as they pull pretty bad during ROM work. The slice is healing nice but there are new twinges and senseations everyday...guess it's all part of the healing.

My tibia is sore as hell and I have some tnedonitus in my foot / achilles from the "gas pedal" calf pumps, maybe I've been a bit overzealous. The VM is now responding nicely during quad flexes that were once only futile mental signals. I'm bearing good weight and am ready to move beyond the immobilizer which is really a POS.

Anyone else have trouble sleeping? I max out at 5 hours and then have to get up and throw some ice on it. I'm now totally off any pain meds, including advil / tylenol and it's totally bearable. No real pain, just discomfort and the occasional throb or twinge.

[Kellie]

Anyone else have trouble sleeping? I max out at 5 hours and then have to get up and throw some ice on it. I'm now totally off any pain meds, including advil / tylenol and it's totally bearable. No real pain, just discomfort and the occasional throb or twinge.

I had a terrible time sleeping - same thing: 5 hours and then wide awake. I used Tylenol PM because I found I was totally ruined the next day if I didn't sleep.

Now I have the opposite problem - I am totally exhausted all the time! I guess you can't win . . .

[truth]

Saw the doc today and got my staples out. X-ray looked good and the screw in my tibia was pretty cool to see like that. Bigger than I thought it woud be. green lighted for real PT starting monday 3x a week for 4 weeks, then it's back for another office visit. Got a mini immobilizer and the ok to shower...which ought to please my better half for her sponge bath ledge shower duties are over. Still need to regain control over my quad but with the staples out ROM and flexes are allready easier. Fuckers really start to pull after a while making the tightness of the joint even more exagerated and oogy. So it's 4 more days on the Camoped...

whcih is a pretty cool toy my doc got for me. In Europe this is used right off the bat rather than a CPM machine. Both were provided as a courtesy to me to use, the CPM for 1 week to gain ROM of 0 -90 and now the CAMOPED for use until real PT starts next monday. I've made it through the darkest stretch, and damn if it was not a long second week. Thanks to all of you who answered questions, Gimp central is a nice place to chill whne you're at the low point of the swinging pendulum.

http://vacoped.com/oped/en/products.php

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

I've made it through the darkest stretch, and damn if it was not a long second week.

Yup, the first few weeks are indeed rough...but damn the staples are out now, PT is scheduled, so game on. The Camoped thing looks cool.

[truth]

Single crutching bitches!

[Mtn Man]

Wow, that initial pic is pretty intense. I'm still going through pre op PT for the next two weeks, I'll probably be getting the patella graft too. Thanks for the updates, it helps me prepare for what may be ahead of me. Good luck with the PT and congrats on the single crutch!!!

B)