14/?? The OFFICIAL Tahoe Thread

[NakedShorts]

Well today didn't suck.

[kungpow]

Airbag night tomorrow at Tahoe Mountain Sports in Truckee. More info: http://blog.tahoemountainsports.com/...series-at-tms/

Free inspections/refills for your airbag.

I'm looking to sell my 1st gen BCA Float 30 with canister if anyone is interested. I'll be there tomorrow night getting an inspection/refill and test firing before I sell it.

[Ottime]

another awesome day in the neighborwood



hutchski

I can't even tell if you still have my color pants.

And is Hutchski a tellatubby these days?

[climberevan]

Gimpy!

Great to hear you are back at it, my friend! I'll see you out there soon.

[rod9301]

Tamarack skied superbly today, true hero snow.

[~mikey b]

How'd you find your way?

[powdork]

I can't even tell if you still have my color pants.

And is Hutchski a tellatubby these days?

hutchski is a teletubby and i am rocking the orange pants yes

[powfiend]

relay was tits today, perfect windpress, fast and surfy, even some sun. Thinking tomorrow should be good up on the summit! With all this good snow we have been given I might actually be ready for some actual riding when leave for cham in a few weeks!

[SchralphMacchio]

A couple of good incidents worth reading were posted to the SAC Incidents page yesterday evening.

[dhklauer]

A couple of good incidents worth reading were posted to the SAC Incidents page yesterday evening.

There were a few tracks in that north bowl off castle on Sunday. Looked good back there, but we made the call not to ski it, and head closer to the car. Glad to hear that nobody was hurt in the two incidents.

[~mikey b]

http://www.rgj.com/story/life/outdoo...snow/20460885/

There's a reason why during winter it can be hard to find a parking place along Mount Rose Highway near the Tahoe Meadows and Chickadee Ridge.

The short stretch of road is the best place to access some of the most scenic backcountry in Nevada, an area that includes snow-covered meadows, alpine peaks and Lake Tahoe views.

It's also the epicenter of a debate over winter access to public land in the Sierra Nevada as U.S. Forest Service units throughout the range are in the process of reworking their winter travel management plans.

Six separate Forest Service units, Lake Tahoe Basin, Tahoe, Eldorado, Lassen and Stanislaus, and Plumas are in varying stages of reworking their plans, some of which haven't been updated for decades.

The result could be new boundaries that limit where people can ride snowmobiles and set aside areas that are restricted to human-powered recreation such as snowshoeing and backcountry skiing.

The Lake Tahoe Basin unit, at the west end of Tahoe Meadows, is doing a slightly different process than the other units because managers there started before lawsuits by groups seeking more restrictions on snowmobiles forced the government to order winter travel plan updates throughout the region.

They've already formed a Mount Rose Highway Winter Collaboration Group made up of snowmobilers and non-motorized recreation users with a goal of forming a consensus over how to divide up the area in advance of the formal process of updating the travel management plan.

"We are basically looking for something that has broad support," said Cheva Gabor, spokesperson for the Lake Tahoe Basin unit of the Forest Service. "If something has more broad support it is going to be observed or complied with better."

Snowmobiling is already highly restricted at Tahoe Meadows east of Chickadee Ridge in the Humboldt-Toiyabe National Forest. But to the west, in the Lake Tahoe Basin unit, there are more areas open to the sport.

Access boundaries on the basin side have for decades been governed by an annual series of forest orders that are only in place for one year at a time. The new travel management plan will set more permanent boundaries, Gabor said.

Now, with the Forest Service poised to issue longer-term boundaries, the stakes are higher than ever. And it's unclear whether the members of the collaborative user group are willing or able to come up with a compromise.

In the Lake Tahoe Basin unit areas of contention include Chickadee and Relay ridges which are on the west side of Tahoe Meadows and provide lake views. Also, there is debate over whether snowmobile riders should be forced to use sleds with "best available technology" for emission control, which could price out people who can't afford to upgrade. Emission controls, however, are beyond what the Forest Service regulates, Gabor said.

"We are not seeking to end the sport of snowmobiling, we are just seeking to confine it," said Bob Rowen, vice president for advocacy for Snowlands Network, which bills itself as "the only voice in California and Nevada advocating for quiet, safe and pristine places for non-motorized visitors to our forests to recreate."

Rowen said snowmobiles create more noise and pollution than many backcountry skiers and snowshoers are willing to tolerate.

"People don't want to recreate with the snowmobile noise and don't want to recreate with the snowmobile emissions," he said. "You get one snowmobile in there and it ruins the experience for everybody. It is like you are sitting on the beach and a motorcycle rides right by you."

Not surprisingly, snowmobilers aren't keen on getting pushed out of some of the most scenic and accessible riding terrain in the Sierra Nevada.

Greg McKay, who represents snowmobile users in the collaborative group, said riders want to preserve access to areas they've been riding for decades.

"If you look at the map of where we are allowed to be in the area we are a postage stamp," he said. "There is a tendency to try to protect those areas and not have them erode any further."

McKay also disagreed with the notion that snowmobiles can't co-exist peacefully with skiers and snowshoers.

"This is public land, everybody has an equal right to use that property for their recreation experience," he said. "The people I ride with, if we see some skiers in the same area we try to give them some distance."

If the collaboration group doesn't offer a compromise the Forest Service will issue it's own proposal for the contested areas which would most likely be similar to the temporary boundaries already in place.

Gabor said the Forest Service could have new regulations in place this winter ordering the units to move forward with their travel updates. She's hopeful the snowmobile and non-motorized groups will have their own compromise before then.

"We are trying to provide a range of outdoor winter recreation experiences," Gabor said. "What we would like to see is a move away from how much does one side have versus how much does another have."



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

FYI Bob Rowen is Baahhb here and on Earn Your Turns - whiny NIMBY extraordinaire

[TahoeBC]

Seems to me if you can't find a place to ski in the basin without being bothered by snowmobiles, your doing it wrong.

[meter-man]

Thanks for the post TM. Does anyone have a map of the permitted motorized zones v. non-motorized zones in the Tahoe area? (Paging LightRanger to the white courtesy phone.)

[Baaahb]

a. the winter OSV map for the basin can be accessed here: http://www.fs.usda.gov/activity/ltbm...n/wintersports

b. You are right, TahoeBC, but that does not make the current map appropriate. In some areas, such as the area just south of Chickadee Ridge, where a hundred skiers and snowshoers can be out at one time on a good weekend day, I simply don't see any argument for continuing to keep it open to motorized use. Most motorized users respect the nonmotorized quality of this area, but not all. Why not make the closure formal?

[~mikey b]

Baaahb

never could spell that right

[LightRanger]

Map is here:
http://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_...rdb5447309.pdf

Currently 52% of LTBMU-managed land is available to OSV recreation. I can't recall what percentage of non-wilderness land (e.g. land that is not designated open or closed by forest order and is outside of the LTBMU's control) is open, but it's a higher percentage, because, math.

I'll probably have more to say on the issue as time goes on.

[~mikey b]

I'll be chiming in too...

I've got no dog in this fight but it's something a have some experience with.

[bodywhomper]

sugarbowl opened more terrain today. that was fun.

[alTAos]

Most motorized users respect the nonmotorized quality of this area, but not all. Why not make the closure formal?

You make no logical sense there...If most are respecting you, then maybe try and work with them rather than just close it down. Sharing and compromising is an amazing quality.

[kidwoo]

"People don't want to recreate with the snowmobile noise and don't want to recreate with the snowmobile emissions," he said. "You get one snowmobile in there and it ruins the experience for everybody. It is like you are sitting on the beach and a motorcycle rides right by you."

That reminds me. All summer long when I'm literally sitting on the beach I've got to listen to Harleys and cigarette boats. Those boats you can hear from every peak the basin.........


This just doesn't fit my idyllic view of what Lake Tahoe should be when I step out of my car. Who should I sue?

[LightRanger]

Presidents Nixon and Carter, for not including Harleys and cigarette boats specifically in the executive orders that addressed management of off-highway vehicles (which specifically include oversnow vehicles) on public lands. Or creating executive orders that governed noise and other impacts on the Lake, like they did with public lands.

Or the TRPA, because they banned two-stroke skis on the Lake, but didn't set a noise ordinance for boats, or ban two-stroke sleds from the Basin. (Not that I'm necessarily advocating for the latter, but you asked the question. )

Or the CHP, Placer County Sheriff, etc. for not enforcing the noise provision in the California Vehicle Code against said Harleys. (Maybe something similar applies to boats too? Doubt it, but possible.)

And, it's funny, road noise is pretty faint from really not that far from the TH on Tamarack, if you can hear it at all, but I can hear sleds on Relay pretty clearly when I'm up there. And if I wanted to meadowskip up the road to Martis or on the other side of 267, forget it.

Carry on...

[Baaahb]

Hey, I'm with you all the way on the cigarette boats. Those things are an even bigger abomination than souped-up two-strokes and you can quote me on that. They don't fit anybody's "idyllic view" of what Lake Tahoe should be other than the few riding them.

[AKbruin]

My $.02: I don't have a sled, but I am in that general area very often. IMO, the "noise" is faint most of the time (or at least it's never bothered me), and it's easy to get away from it. I don't really see what the fuss is about.

As for cigarette boats . . . I've heard them five miles inland in Desolation Wilderness.

[climberevan]

Tamarack met with my approval today.

Also, I heard sleds all day. Not a value judgement, just a note.

[LightRanger]

sinatra and his pals at the cal/neva lodge.

Heh. I chuckled. I think I read the newly-renovated Cal Neva is reopening in the next month or two.

Mike, next time you post a land management article, do you mind resurrecting one of the separate threads we've had in the past and posting it there? A link to a separate thread serves the same purpose of fostering discussion/awareness/stirring shit. I only ask because I'd rather not feel compelled cunt up this thread with my ramblings more than I already do.