Home Remodel: Do, Don'ts, Advice

**VTeton** · 08-16-2019, 07:46 PM

My cousin works in town and recently quoted a 10k job at 50k cause he didnt want the job. Told the guy the whole job would be done in a week.

Dude hired him. We missed a day of fishing but it worked out well for him. He has a full crew, plumber, electrician, tile guy, finish etc. With everyone on payroll he scoops up some very overpriced jobs but guarantees quick work.

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**Art Shirk** · 08-16-2019, 08:25 PM

I have an absolute ton of deck square footage across three floors, including a few different pergolas, deck railings and perimeter railings and the wood is generally rotting all over. Been spot fixing for years and I think it’s finally time to bite the bullet and redo everything except I think the footings, beams and joists are all fine. It’s going to be a huge expense so I want to just do it right but obviously not pay more than need be.

I’m wondering what the collective would recommend for the decking material. The decks get a ton of exposure and I live in rainy Seattle so I’m thinking composites or hardwoods. First priority is longevity but tempered against things like cost, weight and negative consequences of certain types like deck film/moss and upkeep. Just starting my research and know very little in this area.

Any recommendations on decking materials to consider?

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**iceman** · 08-16-2019, 08:52 PM

This ad/article lays out the issues pretty well https://www.eaglebuildingsolutions.c...-deck-material

It's really a personal sliding scale that includes cost, looks, durability, chemicals (from pressure treated) etc..

We have a lot of 20-year-old cedar decking that is still holding up well with coats of Sikkens Cetol every 2-3 years. Damp mid-atlantic climate, hot in the summer pretty, cold in the winter. It did rot in a few spots that stayed wet but really it shouldn't have been built so it would stay wet in the first place and it hasn't rotted since those conditions were remedied. In the PNW cedar should be readily available, I'd use it again. It's a pretty soft material so it will scratch and wear, but to me that adds character and I'm okay with it.

Ipe and some other tropical hardwoods are cool materials but they're expensive and some of it is illegally harvested.

I personally don't like the composites and synthetics, to me they look cheap even when they're expensive.

edit: for clearityness.

**PNWbrit** · 08-16-2019, 09:12 PM

Originally Posted by Art Shirk

I have an absolute ton of deck square footage across three floors, including a few different pergolas, deck railings and perimeter railings and the wood is generally rotting all over. Been spot fixing for years and I think it’s finally time to bite the bullet and redo everything except I think the footings, beams and joists are all fine. It’s going to be a huge expense so I want to just do it right but obviously not pay more than need be.

I’m wondering what the collective would recommend for the decking material. The decks get a ton of exposure and I live in rainy Seattle so I’m thinking composites or hardwoods. First priority is longevity but tempered against things like cost, weight and negative consequences of certain types like deck film/moss and upkeep. Just starting my research and know very little in this area.

Any recommendations on decking materials to consider?

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Talk to oft's guy.

He just did a great job on our rotten old deck.

And our roof last year.

**::: :::** · 08-16-2019, 10:11 PM

Originally Posted by Art Shirk

Any recommendations on decking materials to consider?

Ipe = Bombproof

It loves lack of maintenance and hard use and lots of exposure

**old goat** · 08-17-2019, 12:40 AM

If you are considering ipe you should look at the sustainability/environmental issue. https://www.terramai.com/blog/ipe-en...urcing-issues/ or find your own info.
Not an issue in Seattle--not yet anyway--but fire resistance is an issue for us in California. Some composites have a good fire rating. (So does ipe apparently). If replacing the decking over existing structure span becomes an issue. And if the new material is a different thickness than the old, riser height of the first and last steps of a flight of stairs can be an issue, at least if you're building to code.

**Art Shirk** · 08-17-2019, 08:48 AM

Ice - I’m with you on the aesthetics of natural wood. I just don’t think it will hold up as long and I’m willing to trade a little in the appearance column for a little more in the longevity column. I’m going to keep this house indefinitely and want to minimize headaches. I’ve heard Ipe is awesome and may be the right aesthetic but for some reason I was worried about weight. Maybe that is unfounded and it doesn’t matter but all my decks are built off of large slopes. And while I think some of the best looking decks are fairly natural wood color, or similarly stained, my set up here due to the house type and color, needs a very light color deck and I know I can get very specific on composite or polymer. Felt like that article was pushing polymer because that company sells it, but I’ll read up more on that.

Brit - I will certainly ask oft about his guy. Having someone walk trough it with me and bid it would be good.

Ac - thanks for seconding Ipe. On my list to consider. Cost of the material is one thing, but if I’m getting double binged for cost to install due to how hard it is to cut and secure, I get more dubious.

Old Goat - thanks for the article. Honestly not sure how I feel about the environmental issue but need to probably figure out where I stand on it. Size is also a good consideration.

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**EWG** · 08-17-2019, 08:59 AM

I spec composites every time. Usually Trex. The lack of any needed maintenance, comfort under foot for bare feet, and lack of movement over time make it a no brainer unless the client is desperate for wood. If they are then it’s Ipe or nothing. But I do my best to stay away from Ipe because I like rainforests.

Composites every time. Simply a far superior product.

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**toast2266** · 08-17-2019, 09:36 AM

Originally Posted by iceman

We have a lot of 20-year-old cedar decking that is still holding up well with coats of Sikkens Cetol every 2-3 years.

X2 on this. We just bought a place with 3 decks, all roughly 20 years olds. One is cedar, one is redwood, and one is some unknown wood that's painted. Redwood and cedar decks both look good, and I'd venture a guess that neither of those decks have seen any real maintenance in at least a decade. The deck with painted mystery wood is in bad shape, with lots of boards that need replacing.

**old goat** · 08-17-2019, 10:00 AM

We've been happy with Moisture Shield composite, but it's only 5 years old more or less so can't comment on longevity. (The problem with evaluating longevity of any product is that by the time you've had it for 20 years they're not making it the same any more.)

**mcski** · 08-17-2019, 01:31 PM

Very happy w our ipe and feels awesome under foot. It’s heavy wood but that definitely shouldn’t matter. I like composites too but they are definitely more involved of an install and they are not indestructible. I’ve seen plenty need to be replaced because they have degraded due to weather. Awesome product but it’s not a no brainer. For less expensive than ipe, there are some good cedar options out there

**toast2266** · 08-19-2019, 02:11 PM

What's the current consensus on the best bet for cordless tools? My current tools are mostly corded, but I have a couple bigger projects on the horizon that warrant buying some cordless stuff - I might buy one of those kits that includes a few batteries and a drill / sawzall / circular saw / etc.

Leaning Milwaukee, but open to suggestions.

**skaredshtles** · 08-19-2019, 02:16 PM

Originally Posted by beece

I spec composites every time.

Smart.

We are coming up on 6 years since we had our deck replaced and we have done SQUAT WRT to maintenance. And other than a bit of discoloration on the cedar 4x4s, it is like the day it was installed.

It does get *really* hot in the summer afternoons (west-facing deck).

**skiballs** · 08-19-2019, 02:23 PM

With dentist money I can't believe no one is pouring a suspended slab with flag stone veneer, shesh, cheap skates.

**EWG** · 08-19-2019, 02:23 PM

Originally Posted by toast2266

What's the current consensus on the best bet for cordless tools? My current tools are mostly corded, but I have a couple bigger projects on the horizon that warrant buying some cordless stuff - I might buy one of those kits that includes a few batteries and a drill / sawzall / circular saw / etc.

Leaning Milwaukee, but open to suggestions.

I use Makita, and have for years, except a brief foray into Dewalt that ended in me switching back to Makita. Many of our subcontractors use Milwaukee - it's a favorite. I like some of their tools, but Makita still works best for me.

This is a great deal for a brushless kit. Many places have it right now for the same price. Circular saw is not a full size 7 1/2 though - it's like 6.5" or something. Which for light homeowner work is likely fine.
https://www.toolnut.com/makita-xt505...hoCCQMQAvD_BwE

**Dantheman** · 08-19-2019, 02:25 PM

Trex deck I put in 12 years ago (sidebar: HFS, time flies) is still holding up great. Color has faded, but considering that I do nothing to it except hose it off occasionally I have no complaints. One would assume the new stuff is even better. I do live in the desert and not the PNWet, so YMMV.

**toast2266** · 08-19-2019, 02:40 PM

Originally Posted by beece

I use Makita, and have for years, except a brief foray into Dewalt that ended in me switching back to Makita. Many of our subcontractors use Milwaukee - it's a favorite. I like some of their tools, but Makita still works best for me.

This is a great deal for a brushless kit. Many places have it right now for the same price. Circular saw is not a full size 7 1/2 though - it's like 6.5" or something. Which for light homeowner work is likely fine.
https://www.toolnut.com/makita-xt505...hoCCQMQAvD_BwE

Right on. That is indeed a great deal. Looks like the local big box is offering the same deal. That might be a winner.

**grskier** · 08-19-2019, 02:44 PM

Originally Posted by skaredshtles

Smart.

We are coming up on 6 years since we had our deck replaced and we have done SQUAT WRT to maintenance. And other than a bit of discoloration on the cedar 4x4s, it is like the day it was installed.

It does get *really* hot in the summer afternoons (west-facing deck).

shouldn't it face up

**RootSkier** · 08-19-2019, 02:50 PM

Originally Posted by toast2266

Right on. That is indeed a great deal. Looks like the local big box is offering the same deal. That might be a winner.

All the money is in the batteries. If you are doing projects where you are tag-teaming a drill and an impact driver, you should have more than two batteries.

And so I have to pitch DeWalt, because Murdoch's has a lot of pretty damn good sales on DeWalt stuff, including 2 for 1 batteries at their annaul DeWalt sale, which varies by date/store for some dumb reason. For example: https://www.murdochs.com/globalasset...le-group-4.pdf

FWIW, I have been rocking DeWalt tools for like 15 years, formerly professionally, and I still have the same impact driver and drill from that time frame, and both work fine. They obviously get less use now, though.

**Skidog** · 08-19-2019, 03:31 PM

Originally Posted by Dantheman

Trex deck I put in 12 years ago (sidebar: HFS, time flies) is still holding up great. Color has faded, but considering that I do nothing to it except hose it off occasionally I have no complaints. One would assume the new stuff is even better. I do live in the desert and not the PNWet, so YMMV.

1300sq ft of it being laid now on the new deck. I want low maintenance. I'll semi solid stain the framing pressure treated next summer. Another week and it should be done.

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**Nobody Famous** · 08-19-2019, 05:48 PM

Interesting comparisons of ipe, composite, cedar and PVC.

They show a scratch removed from AZEK composite with only a heat gun, starts at 3:45.

Sunscreen and insect repellent is also not good to get on your deck surface.

**schuss** · 08-19-2019, 06:27 PM

I did the research on cordless systems recently and apparently the power edge goes to DeWalt and the compatibility to Milwaukee.

**muted** · 08-19-2019, 09:35 PM

Originally Posted by Nobody Famous

Sunscreen and insect repellent is also not good to get on your deck surface.

I’ve been rolling gallons of SPF 50 on my deck for years to protect it from the sun, it looks great.

**toast2266** · 08-20-2019, 10:27 AM

I'd kinda written off dewalt - the internet consensus seems to be that the older stuff was good, but quality has dropped off in the last decade or so. But I dunno.