If it was not for cheap gas.....

[PaSucks]

Just paid $2.75 in NorCal for regular. Premuim was $3.05!! Insano!!

On the subject of octane . . . modern cars can adjust their ignition timing to deal with low octane, so ther'e no real risk to pistons/cyclinders in using it, just decreased performance for cars designed specifically for the good stuff.

I beleive what you are refering to is a knock sensor, which works by actually listening for knocking, and then retarding the timing slightly, I believe. I know for my car the knock sensor has been shown to be relatively inneffective. It is more to prevent further damage from knocking if something is messed up in the engine, and less to prevent damage from low octane. Also, if you run a louder aftermarket exhaust or even just an aftermarket air filter, the excess noise can render the knock sensor useless.

[Jumper Bones]

I just paid $41 to fill up on 92 octane.

Once again - are you sure you REALLY need 92 octane?

[scoober]

Once again - are you sure you REALLY need 92 octane?

Yes, it says so in the fucking manual. Jesus H. Christ. Compression ratios, motherfucker, do you speak it?

[ak_powder_monkey]

all a ploy to get anwr open its still under $2/gallon here

[Jumper Bones]

Yes, it says so in the fucking manual. Jesus H. Christ. Compression ratios, motherfucker, do you speak it?

well, if it's a Volvo, I'm guessing it has the 5-cylinder of the 850/S70 line. And I can tell you from personal experience it'll run on mid-grade just fine.

no need to get defensive. people tend to err on the side of conservatism, and that costs them. Sometimes the concern is unwarranted. I'm not saying to not do what the owner's manual says, but I'm pretty sure it says "premium only" in my dad's 850 and like I said it runs on mid-grade fine. The only way to find out is by trying.

From Consumer Reports:
Getting regular. If your car specifies regular fuel, don't buy premium under the mistaken belief that your engine will benefit. Most cars are designed to run just fine on regular gasoline. Furthermore, many cars that recommend premium fuel also run well on regular. Check your owner's manual to find out if your engine is designed to handle either grade. And consider buying off-brand gasoline, which is most often identical to what is sold at franchised gas stations.
link

jeez, don't get your panties in such a twist...

[scoober]

Nothing's twisted, my panties are firmly between cheeks. If you'd have taken the time to read my previous previous post, you'd have been aware that we are indeed aware of what octane our box on wheels calls for, and that I am aware of what octane means to the engine.

It's really a matter of the fine line where you decide what compression ratio actually warrants a higher octane. 9.0:1 for the 2.4T engine we have. Most will say 9.3:1 and higher requires octanes around 92 or 93. So how do you interpolate that? 91 (recommended by Volvo) sounds about right. Sure you can run a lower octane, but that is falling back onto the knock-sensing timing retardation system. I would rather have my engines not be electronically limiting themselves and be performing at design intent.

[Jumper Bones]

well, then you get to pay for that. You could also listen to hear if there are knocks at all...

what is it that's driving up your octane need? the turbo? I know volvo began offering turbos of varying levels of compression...do you have the high-compression, 'R' model, or the low-compression one? I'm just curious as my next car is going to be a V70 XC (I'm coming from a 244 DL), and am wondering myself what it's gonna need.

of course, I could just listen to find out...

[scoober]

Yeah, you pay for that, and while there is some complaining, for me it is still the right thing to do. It's not like I would be able to explicitly noticel the performance limitation if we were running regular octane, and the timing is forced to compensate by slowing.

But due to my background, I believe that the whole system is a cop out, and gets into a much bigger discussion on marketing of luxury/high performance vehicles.

(People want their bling, and their nice cars with nice engines, but aren't willing to pay for the proper fuel, so the top tier cars were given fallback systems to allow the tight asses of the US drive their Benz on regular. If you don't want to pay for the gas then drive a fucking Corolla.)

Anyway. We have a '98 XC70, and it has the 2.4 light-pressure turbo. It's a wee little guy. As we are loading the miles on this vehicle, that's just another reason for me to keep the engine running at it's design intent.

[bad_roo]

I had the pleasure of paying $41 for 16 gallons of gas yesterday and I didn't even get a reach around.

$114 for that same amount of gas here.

[mrw]

$114 for that same amount of gas here.

Have you folks seen a 100% increase in fuel costs over the last 24 months also? I know there are a lot of taxes associated with your fuel costs. I'm just curious as to whether we are the only market seeing this.

[MacDaddy]

...not that you would need a reach around...

is this a typical male response?

women need reach arounds too you know?

I guess you havent figured that part out yet huh?

[Eldo]

...Sure you can run a lower octane, but that is falling back onto the knock-sensing timing retardation system. I would rather have my engines not be electronically limiting themselves and be performing at design intent.

You have hit the nail on the head. Modern engines are designed to handle the occasional tank of gas that doesn't meet their octane needs. But relying on those backup retarding systems so you can run low test fuel all the time is a bad idea.

Timing is related to everything from fuel delivery to cam lift duration to those nice expensive-to-fix emissions systems. Run too low octane over the long term and get ready to see some red lights flashing on your dash. And getting rid of them will cost way more than buying high test fuel.

[Eldo]

The US itself isn't as dependant on foreign oil as we think - the great majority comes from us, and the other big chunk comes from Venezuela, which is a far cry from the middle east everybody thinks we get all our oil from.

You need to look up the meaning of the word "majority."

Oil imports accounted for more than 50 per cent of U.S. consumption for the first time back in 1999. Since then imports have crept up to almost 60 per cent of U.S. consumption.

In 2004, the number one crude oil supplier to the U.S. was Canada, averaging 1.61 million barrels a day. Mexico was number two with 1.60 million, Saudi Arabia number three with 1.49 million, Venezuela number four with 1.29 million, and Nigeria number five with 1.06 million. Those five account for about 70 per cent of the imports, so the remaining half dozen or so supplier countries are small players.

According to the stats for January 2005, Saudia Arabia has taken over the number one spot.

U.S. foreign oil dependency is a fact. Whether it is a problem depends on who you talk to.

[Telegasm]

I noticed some posters referred to the inclusion of a percentage of ethanol in gasoline as something of environmental benefit. In fact, it is not. Ethanol is mostly produced from corn and other organic feedstocks which are grown on farms and then processed into alcohol. The growing and processing of the corn has been shown to take up so much gas/coal/oil (powering farm and refinery equipment, fertilizer for the feedstock crops, and a host of other peripheral/overhead costs) that it doesn't break even in energy usage. So when ethanol is mixed in with gasoline, rather than saving any energy, it's merely a transfer of funds from gas-consuming areas to regions of corn production.

You might ask how it's possible that the tradeoff I refer to could even continue -- if the corn-to-gasohol conversion doesn't break even in energy usage, how can it be economical enough that the farmers and refiners continue to do it? The simple answer is that they're burning subsidized gasoline to produce subsidized ethanol for sale to states in which ethanol is a legally required additive. Thus the existing laws and subsidies make it possible for them to run an energy-losing machine for profit.

Not everyone agrees on the energy efficiency of producing ethanol; the USDA may in fact disagree with me, based on technology improvements. Just shaking up the discussion a bit here. Here's a quick introductory read on the subject.

http://www.mindfully.org/Energy/2003...lems3jun03.htm

[Grange]

$114 for that same amount of gas here.

You should get a Keanu Reeve's statue.

I payed $2.35/gal regular in my hometown. 90 miles to the west in suburb of a much larger city I payed $2.07. I know taxes are the difference in price, but this is ridiculous.

[lemon boy]

41 bucks to fill up? that'd be a pleasure right now.

Last time I did a real fillup it went past seventy bucks easy. Unfortunately, this year I got FUCKED by the asshat E. coast HHO companies and coops who jacked the price gobbling up the reserves at the last instant.

D2 (blend) is currently running 5-15c more than prem. Hoping that when we go back to straight D2 things will improve a bit (summer is traditionally cheaper). Keeps up not much more and BioD will become cheaper.

Ethanol is a raw deal, if they wanted to subsidize something effective it would be BioD.

All that said, it is okay, and I've been getting good mileage lately (relatively).
------------------------------

Pet Peeve: Many gas stations have a deal on the auto pump where on one transaction you can only put X number of dollars in fuel in (typically 40 or 50 bucks). Guess what: FUCK YOU ASSHOLES! If you jack your prices up to ~2.30/gallon and I'm gonna put 30-35 gallons in, do the math. I hate that so much.

[Tippster]

The difference between mid-grade and Hi Test is about 10 cents/gal, if that much. My Audi usually gasses up every 16 gallons, so we're talking about $1.60. I gas up every week, so we're talking about $75/year. I can afford it, especially since the Manual calls for 91 Octane minimum. A rebuilt engine would be the equivalent of a car's lifetime worth of more expensive gas.

[Spats]

I noticed some posters referred to the inclusion of a percentage of ethanol in gasoline as something of environmental benefit. In fact, it is not.

You are correct. Ethanol is a crock. The reason we have it is the same reason we have all the other bizarre agricultural subsidies: the Senate has two representatives per state, so the big agricultural states with no people get hundreds of times the representation that the urban states do.

[yogachik]

$50 to fill up in Lone Pine.
someone else will be doing the driving through the end of the season.

[Plakespear]

It's the 1970's all over again

Arty's ready!!!

[funkendrenchman]

Heard on the news last night that around Monterray, CA a gallon of regular is $3.99.

In the last 8 weeks or so gas here has gone up 70 cents.... absolutely ridiculous!

[Mcwop]

You are correct. Ethanol is a crock. The reason we have it is the same reason we have all the other bizarre agricultural subsidies: the Senate has two representatives per state, so the big agricultural states with no people get hundreds of times the representation that the urban states do.

Your theory is incorrect for the following reasons:
1) The house has a say in this, and always passes farm subs (see #3 on why). The house representation is based on state population.
2) There is never a president with the spine to veto a farm bill.
3) States receiveing the most subsidies are some of the most populated. For the top 7 states getting subsidies four of those are heavily populated (TX, GA, CA, IL). Texas gets the most.

[DB]

Just out of interest, how does the US diesel price compare to gas and is diesel seeing the same rise in percentage terms?

[lemon boy]

diesel is basically tracking the upward trend that gasoline is.

Diesel is affected by seasonal price fluctuations though. As I mentioned earlier, in the winter the price typically goes up relative to gas b/c it is used for home heating oil (HHO) and b/c it is blended to prevent gelling in cold climates (D2 w/ D1). In a typical year D2 goes from about 5-15 cents cheaper than low grade gas during the late spring/summer and then climbs to about the price of mid grade during the winter.

This year, owing to a variety of factors* the price of diesel has been 5-15cents more than Premium all winter. Can you say Ouch? I can.

All that said, we're getting awful close to the "diesel ceiling." Where it becomes flat out "cheaper" for us oilburners to buy biodiesel. Where ethanol is a failure, BioD works.

* HHO suppliers were "hoping" for a crude price drop before winter with the end of the summer driving season and didn't buy up reserves. When the price didn't drop they got caught without and had to buy whatever they could, driving the cost up over the price of premium. And D2 is close enough to the fuel (JP8?) that the military uses as standard that we compete against them as well.

[Cliff Huckable]

If US buyers stopped insisting on a V6 and created a reasonable diesel market, we'd be much better off.
Maybe the government should subsidize penal implants, that way people would slow down with needing to buy the biggest SUV on the block.

I agree that SUV drivers are ridiculous (unless they live or work in the bc) but I don't think diesel is an answer. Getting off fossil fuel seems to be the only answer.
Friends of the White House wouldn't like that, though - not when there is all of Alaska to turn into Texas.