If it was not for cheap gas.....

[funkendrenchman]

Just curious..why 92 octane? What does you manual tell you to put in? Or, do you have an old car?

I put in 92 octane cause of the turbo.

[LAN]

Just curious..why 92 octane? What does you manual tell you to put in? Or, do you have an old car?

Same answer as funken - turbo.

[PaSucks]

I had the pleasure of paying $41 for 16 gallons of gas yesterday and I didn't even get a reach around.

...not that you would need a reach around...

[EZB]

ARCO gas is 10% ethanol (they are required to post this on their pumps), which burns through your engine without giving you the same energy benefit of gasoline. If ethanol gave us the same energy as gas, then we would be filling our cars with 100% ethanol.

In the Seattle area, all gas has the ethanol by law. Same with many other areas of the country year round, and most areas in the winter. Now about octane. Don't buy more octane than you need as if your use to treating yourself to "the finer things in life." Use what your engine was designed for. Too much octane can do more harm than not enough.

[PaSucks]

In the Seattle area, all gas has the ethanol by law. Same with many other areas of the country year round, and most areas in the winter. Now about octane. Don't buy more octane than you need as if your use to treating yourself to "the finer things in life." Use what your engine was designed for. Too much octane can do more harm than not enough.

I don't know about that statement. Too little is bad bad bad. Lots of performance car freaks run higher octane at the track, lots of gas stations near drag strips carry 100 octane for the people going out to the strip. I run 92 or better. Running something lower than recomended can result in scortched pistons and rings. Not good.

[EZB]

Why do you run 92?

Only if your goal is limited to the next 1/4 mile instead of the next 100,000 miles will I agree with you. Or if that's what the engine was designed for.

[Turn Up The Gravity!]

then what was the war for dammit!!!!!

it was NEVER going to effect oil prices, only who got the oil profits. In other words the war was for a few of Bush's friends and Cheney's company Haliburton.
And a huge amount of the money those bastards get is TAXPAYERS money! Hundreds of billions of your dollars for what? So a few super-rich get more money.
soldiers keep dying and being brought back home secretly
no photos, no proper recognition or respect
its fucked

[PaSucks]

Why do you run 92?

Or if that's what the engine was designed for.

That is why. Vtec man, Vtec.

I accidently put 89 in a few times out of habit and she ran like a fat kid in gym class. 92 makes her happy.

[scoober]

Octane is purely related to the compression ratio of the engine. It has nothing to do with power, etc, it is simply an knock-rating. You only need to run the specified octane for your engine, nothing more, nothing less. LAN and I use the 92 because that is what her Volvo engine requires. I use 87 in my Subaru because that's all it needs.

"All gas in Seattle has 10% ethanol" was true at one time, but since air quality levels have improved for the central Puget Sound area, that mandate has been lifted. Most companies typically will not offer E10 gasoline unless they have to.

I don't think Arco is selling E10 for environmental reasons anymore. I could be wrong but they don't seem like the type of company that is commited to the environment and would take a cost hit to provide E10 cheaper than 100% gas. It has to be cheaper for them, then they make their money on volumes sold.

[TeleAl]

War for oil, yes.
War for oil for the minions, no.
Pay, and pay again.

How you like those Reaganomics?

[mrw]

It's the 1970's all over again

The same but different. In the 70's, an artificial shortage was created to justify the screwing of American citizens. Remember gas lines, odd and even days to fill up and the great double nickel speed limit? All the while, tankers were held off shore waiting for the prices to rise. Once it hit $1.00 a gallon, we had all the gas we wanted.
Now they aren't even operating under the pretense of a shortage. This is a flat out F**king. We are spending lives and $$$ in the middle east in an effort to bring "stability" to the region and our "Arab friends" are sticking it up our ass with the help of big oil.
I really thought that once it hit $2. per gallon that the "crisis" would be over. WRONG! What this tells me is that the target price hasn't been reached yet. You west coast folks are paying way more that us on the EC. I'm guessing that when we see $2.50 here on a regular basis and it becomes the norm, then the "crisis" will be over for another 10 years.
Meanwhile, Congress is afraid to even mention the word "oil" what are our esteemed elected officials spending their time doing? Why looking into steroid use by baseball players. Now there is a real crisis.

[shamrockpow]

I really thought that once it hit $2. per gallon that the "crisis" would be over. WRONG! What this tells me is that the target price hasn't been reached yet. You west coast folks are paying way more that us on the EC. I'm guessing that when we see $2.50 here on a regular basis and it becomes the norm, then the "crisis" will be over for another 10 years.

I gotta disagree with you on this one. The reason oil prices are so high is b/c China has been adding 15-20% to their oil consumption year on year. Right now, the U.S. is responsible for most of the world's oil demand: 20 million barrels a day. China only uses 5-6 million barrels a day.

It's projected that in the next 15 years or so China will QUADRUPLE it's oil demand. That would mean, they'd use as much, if not more oil than we use right now. The real interesting thing there, is that the China is planning to build 50 new nuclear power plants and they'll barely make a dent in decreasing the amount of energy they demand from coal, natural gas, and oil.

Future expected demand is directly included in the price of oil you pay. With the growth of China (and as India becomes richer, they're gonna start to consume a lot more resources), the only way to keep oil prices flat would be to reduce consumption here at home by a substantial amount (greater than 30%) over the next dozen years and commit to further conservation down the road. Chances of that happening....

[Arty50]

I had the pleasure of paying $41 for 16 gallons of gas yesterday and I didn't even get a reach around.

God damn Cowboy!

[optics]

I don't think Arco is selling E10 for environmental reasons anymore. I could be wrong but they don't seem like the type of company that is commited to the environment and would take a cost hit to provide E10 cheaper than 100% gas. It has to be cheaper for them, then they make their money on volumes sold.

Completely agree re. their reasons, but as a consumer I make choices based on the properties and benefits of the product, not their motivations. Any for-profit business has the same core purpose driving their decisions, especially if it's publicly held.

If they do it for increased profit margin, and I buy it because it's less expensive, and there happens to be a slight eco-benefit, sounds like a win-win situation.

If US buyers stopped insisting on a V6 and created a reasonable diesel market, we'd be much better off. There's good existing technology which doesn't make our shores because we won't buy it.

Maybe the government should subsidize penal implants, that way people would slow down with needing to buy the biggest SUV on the block.

[mrw]

If US buyers stopped insisting on a V6 and created a reasonable diesel market, we'd be much better off. There's good existing technology which doesn't make our shores because we won't buy it.

True but a double edged sword. I drive a VW Jetta TDI getting 50 mpg hwy/45mpg city. There are high tech diesels in Europe but they require their fuel to be refined to a higher degree than is available here in the USA. The down side is that the latest research indicates that the particulate matter exhausted from a diesel may be a higher contributor to global warming than it's gas counterpart.

[Spats]

The reason oil prices are skyrocketing is that people are finally realizing that we are at, or close to, Hubbert's Peak.

This means that world oil supply is, or will soon be, steadily decreasing; that world oil demand is steadily increasing; and that no meaningful efforts have been made to reduce oil consumption.

As any free-market economist can tell you, this results in increased prices.

It's not artificial, either. OPEC has had the spigot on full blast (or nearly full) for years now; this was the deal when we invaded Iraq for the first time, saving the sheikhs of Kuwait (and the rest of the region, including the Saudis) and protecting them from Iraqi competition at the same time. The current price spike is driven by investment: the Wall Street community has realized that oil is sure to get more expensive, and is investing in it now.

[Jumper Bones]

I gotta disagree with you on this one. The reason oil prices are so high is b/c China has been adding 15-20% to their oil consumption year on year. Right now, the U.S. is responsible for most of the world's oil demand: 20 million barrels a day. China only uses 5-6 million barrels a day.

It's projected that in the next 15 years or so China will QUADRUPLE it's oil demand. That would mean, they'd use as much, if not more oil than we use right now. The real interesting thing there, is that the China is planning to build 50 new nuclear power plants and they'll barely make a dent in decreasing the amount of energy they demand from coal, natural gas, and oil.

Future expected demand is directly included in the price of oil you pay. With the growth of China (and as India becomes richer, they're gonna start to consume a lot more resources), the only way to keep oil prices flat would be to reduce consumption here at home by a substantial amount (greater than 30%) over the next dozen years and commit to further conservation down the road. Chances of that happening....

you're exactly right. China now has a middle class that didn't exist before; it is a new creation of the industrialization/westernization of the last 10 years or so. Also their oil demand has increased sixfold within the last decade, and will continue to increase at such exponential levels.

India, while not growing as explosively as China, is chugging right along as well. So we have an exponential rise in demand for oil, while the supply has remained constant. Some say that's why we need to explore for more caches (a la ANWR), although that argument has been carried on here ad naseum so I won't go into that. Others argue that we need to look into other areas.

The US itself isn't as "dependant" on foreign oil as we think - the great majority comes from us, and the other big chunk comes from Venezuela, which is a far cry from the middle east everybody thinks we get all our oil from. Japan and Europe, on the other hand, get nearly all of heir oil from the middle east, and thanks to the global economy, things that affect their markets have a way of showing up into ours.

Now, onto the octane - octane simply reflects the temperature the gas burns or ignites at. Too low an octane, and you'll experience "knocking" - explosive detonation of the gas in your cylinders, which you can imagine is really really bad for your pistons, crankcase, engine block, etc. Too high an octane, and the gas is burning at a higher temperature than your engine was designed to handle - long-term, that can be really bad as well, not so good for the moving parts your engines are filled with.

Race guys burn avgas, aviation-rated fuel that has something like 110-120 octane. However their engines are designed for the higher burnpoints, and even when they do wear them out that's part of racing and it's shrugged off. I remembed one time I ran my truck out of gas at an airport while going to a flying lesson (thought I could make it into town), but the closest gas available was the 110 octane avgas they had for the airplanes...put it in the gas can (at 3-something a gallon I believe!), and the truck (1986 5.0 liter 302 V-8 F-250) ran like the wind. It was amazing.

For those citing turbos as a need for higher octane - my family has had two turbo-equipped cars (a Volvo 740 Turbo, and a Volvo 850 Turbo), and we've never needed to put premium in them...mid-grade works fine. In an absence of mid-grade (like at CostCo), we'll put premium in them, but otherwise there is no need for the stuff - unless the owner's manual says so. Also, if you're the experimental kind, put a little normal unleaded in it and listen really closely to see if you can hear the 'knocking' - if not, maybe you can get away with it...that'd save some money.

[optics]

True but a double edged sword. I drive a VW Jetta TDI getting 50 mpg hwy/45mpg city. There are high tech diesels in Europe but they require their fuel to be refined to a higher degree than is available here in the USA. The down side is that the latest research indicates that the particulate matter exhausted from a diesel may be a higher contributor to global warming than it's gas counterpart.

If there were enough demand for the more refined diesel here, we'd have it. Unless I'm missing something - which is very possible - there's no good reason we couldn't have the same fuel options here as in Europe. We just aren't demanding it, so we're not getting it.

With respect to the particulate matter issue: is it emissions per unit of fuel volume, or per unit of time/mile driven? If per gallon, the ratio would have to be pretty disproportionate to outweigh the increased mileage. If per mile driven, etc., that's another story.

[optics]

Jumper-jets knows his gas.

[mr_gyptian]

you're exactly right. China now has a middle class that didn't exist before; it is a new creation of the industrialization/westernization of the last 10 years or so. Also their oil demand has increased sixfold within the last decade, and will continue to increase at such exponential levels.

India, while not growing as explosively as China, is chugging right along as well. So we have an exponential rise in demand for oil, while the supply has remained constant. Some say that's why we need to explore for more caches (a la ANWR), although that argument has been carried on here ad naseum so I won't go into that. Others argue that we need to look into other areas.

The US itself isn't as "dependant" on foreign oil as we think - the great majority comes from us, and the other big chunk comes from Venezuela, which is a far cry from the middle east everybody thinks we get all our oil from. Japan and Europe, on the other hand, get nearly all of heir oil from the middle east, and thanks to the global economy, things that affect their markets have a way of showing up into ours.

Now, onto the octane - octane simply reflects the temperature the gas burns or ignites at. Too low an octane, and you'll experience "knocking" - explosive detonation of the gas in your cylinders, which you can imagine is really really bad for your pistons, crankcase, engine block, etc. Too high an octane, and the gas is burning at a higher temperature than your engine was designed to handle - long-term, that can be really bad as well, not so good for the moving parts your engines are filled with.

Race guys burn avgas, aviation-rated fuel that has something like 110-120 octane. However their engines are designed for the higher burnpoints, and even when they do wear them out that's part of racing and it's shrugged off. I remembed one time I ran my truck out of gas at an airport while going to a flying lesson (thought I could make it into town), but the closest gas available was the 110 octane avgas they had for the airplanes...put it in the gas can (at 3-something a gallon I believe!), and the truck (1986 5.0 liter 302 V-8 F-250) ran like the wind. It was amazing.

For those citing turbos as a need for higher octane - my family has had two turbo-equipped cars (a Volvo 740 Turbo, and a Volvo 850 Turbo), and we've never needed to put premium in them...mid-grade works fine. In an absence of mid-grade (like at CostCo), we'll put premium in them, but otherwise there is no need for the stuff - unless the owner's manual says so. Also, if you're the experimental kind, put a little normal unleaded in it and listen really closely to see if you can hear the 'knocking' - if not, maybe you can get away with it...that'd save some money.

I think the Norwedgions might be offended not being mentioned as Europe's spigot.

[mrw]

If there were enough demand for the more refined diesel here, we'd have it. Unless I'm missing something - which is very possible - there's no good reason we couldn't have the same fuel options here as in Europe. We just aren't demanding it, so we're not getting it.

With respect to the particulate matter issue: is it emissions per unit of fuel volume, or per unit of time/mile driven? If per gallon, the ratio would have to be pretty disproportionate to outweigh the increased mileage. If per mile driven, etc., that's another story.

We are going to get a better diesel fuel here in either 06 or 07. mercedes benz has responded by saying they would then bring in some of their other diesels at that time but who has $45000+ to spend on a car to save a few bucks on gas? Right now here in eastern Pa/NJ, diesel costs average .10/.15 more expensive than premium gas! 18 months ago, it was a few pennies less than regular gas. I was paying around >88 per gallon. The cheapest I have found here is in NJ @ $2.21

[optics]

mercedes benz has responded by saying they would then bring in some of their other diesels at that time but who has $45000+ to spend on a car to save a few bucks on gas?

Some people see increased fuel economy as benefical in terms of decreased resource consumption, not just saving themselves a few bucks. I know plenty of people who drive hybrids because they care about the environment, not because they're trying to save money on gas.

Right now here in eastern Pa/NJ, diesel costs average .10/.15 more expensive than premium gas!

Still coming out ahead vs. premium gas.

Jetta 1.8T specs say 31 highway.

Even assuming top end gas mileage and low end diesel, you're paying two cents less per mile driven (assuming $2.25gal gas/$2.40gal diesel). Given 15K/yr., that saves you enough to buy a reach-around, as long as you're in Sea-tac.

[Trackhead]

I just drove my motorhome 400 miles back from St. George at 11mpg. Ouch!

Back to driving my gas sipping Corolla.

[Shin-to-Win]

Just paid $2.75 in NorCal for regular. Premuim was $3.05!! Insano!!

On the subject of octane . . . modern cars can adjust their ignition timing to deal with low octane, so ther'e no real risk to pistons/cyclinders in using it, just decreased performance for cars designed specifically for the good stuff.

Demand for mid-sized fuel efficient cars is skyrocketing. There won't be enough hybrids and diesels on the market in the next two years. A turbodiesel or even hybrid Suby Outback with 30+ MPG would be the ultimate road trip machine.

[LAN]

I just paid $41 to fill up on 92 octane.